CHRISTIANS:FORGIVE EVERYBODY THEIR SINS
Printed From: IslamiCity.org
Category: Religion - Islam
Forum Name: Interfaith Dialogue
Forum Description: It is for Interfaith dialogue, where Muslims discuss with non-Muslims. We encourge that dialogue takes place in a cordial atmosphere on various topics including religious tolerance.
URL: https://www.islamicity.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24717
Printed Date: 18 April 2024 at 2:34am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.03 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: CHRISTIANS:FORGIVE EVERYBODY THEIR SINS
Posted By: Mahdi The Seeke
Subject: CHRISTIANS:FORGIVE EVERYBODY THEIR SINS
Date Posted: 27 January 2013 at 1:14am
|
john 20:19 On the evening of that first day of the week, when the disciples were together, with the doors locked for fear of the Jewish leaders, Jesus came and stood among them and said, �Peace be with you!� 20 After he said this, he showed them his hands and side. The disciples were overjoyed when they saw the Lord.
21 Again Jesus said, �Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.� 22 And with that he breathed on them and said, �Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive anyone�s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.� |
Replies:
Posted By: bunter
Date Posted: 28 January 2013 at 3:31am
The obvious and plain meaning here is not that Christians have the power to forgive sins but they do have the authority to say that one puts their trust in the atoning work of Jesus then sins are forgiven. |
Mahdi The Seeke wrote:Posted By: Webber
Date Posted: 28 January 2013 at 10:08am
|
I wouldn't say that means all Christians. Some may think so... Jesus breathed on His disciples and they received the Holy Spirit, who, in turn must have the same authority as Jesus did to forgive sins. Jesus, being the judge on judgement day would be able to forgive sins at any time. I'm sure the Holy Spirit knew the criteria as well. Let's not talk trinity, but we're obviously not talking Gabriel either. Forgiveness is a big thing for Christians. The disciples asked Jesus, how many times should we forgive sin, 7 times? Jesus answer was 70 X 7, in other words...don't keep track. Not being a disciple at the time, I believe my responsibilities take me tis far. If you have sinned against me, I can forgive you and ask for forgiveness for you, but I cannot put repentance in your heart, and don't have the knowledge to know if it happened or not. I can pray The Lord will send you an angel bearing concience. I can pray any good thing for you. With all that good intension and good will, I cannot see into your heart to see a change, therefore I cannot say your sins are forgiven, only that I've done my best. There is nothing, nothing biblical/spiritually good about praying for a curse. ------------- I'm a Gentile. Numb. 6:24-26 |
Posted By: nirvana
Date Posted: 29 January 2013 at 10:22am
you can make it mean whatever you want. |
Posted By: Mahdi The Seeke
Date Posted: 30 January 2013 at 9:39am
the plain and obvious thing here is that you deliberately chose to ignore what the verse says and assigned your own unrelated belief to the verse. that you said 'The obvious and plain meaning here is not that Christians have the power to forgive sins' shows you understand the meaning. what you said after shows you are either in denial, delusional or both. |
Posted By: Mahdi The Seeke
Date Posted: 30 January 2013 at 9:42am
why not take Jesus for his word instead of relying on your own personal opinion , conjecture and derived beliefs? |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 30 January 2013 at 5:19pm
|
Is there a question here?
------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: Webber
Date Posted: 30 January 2013 at 9:38pm
You know how some people always end their sentences with a higher pitch like asking a question? Goofy, I know, but ... Actually I think this is the man that knows everything and once we finish wallowing our conjecture he'll set us all back on the straight path. Can't wait, :) ------------- I'm a Gentile. Numb. 6:24-26 |
Posted By: Mahdi The Seeke
Date Posted: 31 January 2013 at 12:06am
|
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 31 January 2013 at 9:07am
Ah, well, greetings Mahdi, This scripture was specifically Jesus speaking to His 12 Apostles. It was to them that he gave the power to forgive sins. I wondered why you would be asking 'Christians' to forgive sins. There is no scripture(that I am aware of) that says that all those who receive the Holy Spirit will have the authority to forgive sins. This was only spoken by Jesus to His Apostles. We do however, all have the power to forgive those who trespass against our own selves, which is what Jesus encourages us to do. "...and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us..." - the prayer Jesus taught His disciples to say. Salaam, Caringheart ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: Mahdi The Seeke
Date Posted: 31 January 2013 at 12:10pm
FINALLY, somebody who gets me. |
Posted By: Webber
Date Posted: 01 February 2013 at 6:39pm
|
Gotcha, now how long must we wait? ------------- I'm a Gentile. Numb. 6:24-26 |
Posted By: Mahdi The Seeke
Date Posted: 01 February 2013 at 11:31pm
|
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 03 February 2013 at 10:42am
|
Greetings Mahdi, "There is no scripture(that I am aware of) that says that all those who receive the Holy Spirit will have the authority to forgive sins." We do however, all have the power to forgive those who trespass against our own selves, which is what Jesus encourages us to do."... forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us..." You do not think one needs the power of God's Holy Spirit to find it in ones self to forgive those who have done ill? I do. Salaam, Caringheart ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: Mahdi The Seeke
Date Posted: 04 February 2013 at 3:47am
|
Posted By: Webber
Date Posted: 05 February 2013 at 7:03am
|
Lol, Sorry Caringheart. I'm sure everything I say is irrelevent as well. We are not here to explain our beliefs but to defend the Catholics. I'm not looking it up. What Catholics do is irrelevent to me. Try a little Sunni hadith on Mahdi the seeker and encourage him to explain it until it makes sense. ------------- I'm a Gentile. Numb. 6:24-26 |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 05 February 2013 at 3:19pm
|
Greetings Mahdi, No I don't consider you to be rude, not by your simply questioning. Now I understand. Here we are once again talking about religious practice and of a particular church, namely the Catholic church with its practice of confession to a priest. Confession was an important thing taught by the early apostles. Confession is a first step to repentance, and it is in repentance that we receive God's forgiveness. This is what was taught by James, the half-brother of Jesus, and John, the beloved Apostle... so two people who were very close to Jesus and what He taught. 14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:and, 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.So while it may appear so to outsiders, it is not man that is forgiving the sins, it is the sinner making the confession, seeking to repent, and God's grace to forgive. I think this is not much different than what muslims believe... that God forgives their sins when they sincerely ask and repent... Am I correct in this? The teaching of Jesus you will see takes it a step further... that in order for the repentance to be genuine we must be willing to confess sins one to another. This is a much harder thing to do and much more cleansing of the soul. It is the purging of the evil that is allowed to live within when we do not acknowledge it. In not acknowledging it to another it is easy to deceive ourselves and deny the sin and fool ourselves into believing we live for God. Hope this helps. Salaam, Caringheart ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: Mahdi The Seeke
Date Posted: 06 February 2013 at 4:30am
in this case, the catholics seem to be following the Bible more closely since their belief is based on the Bible on this point. since the basis of power to forgive sins comes from the Holy Spirit and all christians have it, then they should all be able to forgive sins, according to the Bible. |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 06 February 2013 at 9:25am
Hi Webber, It's funny, now that your comment has appeared on the forum I realize something. I thought Mahdi was asking a question... what did I think was irrelevant... and so I answered him. Caringheart ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 06 February 2013 at 10:14pm
Greetings Mahdi, If you forgive someone who has trespassed against you, have you not just forgiven them their sin? ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: bunter
Date Posted: 07 February 2013 at 5:33am
|
The Bible teaches clearly that all men, both living and dead, saved and unsaved, must give an account to Christ. The Apostle Peter, in his great sermon in the house of Cornelius, said �that it is He which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead� (Acts 10:42). Later, in his First Epistle, Peter wrote that Christians �shall give account to Him that is ready to judge the quick (the living) and the dead� (1 Peter 4:5).�
Believers never need fear a condemnatory judgment for sin. For every Christian this judgment is already past. Jesus reassures us by His own word:��Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to (John 5:24). To this the Apostle Paul adds: �There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus� (Romans 8:1).� Some scurrilous people have argued this is a licence to go on sinning but that is a total lie. How can anyone who is given such a salvation abuse God by not thereafter striving for a holy life. Indeed we read "Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles. And let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us." (Hebrews 12:1) In summary,�for those who have absorbed Jesus's message, Christians�confess their sins because they are forgiven not in order to obtain�forgiveness. |
Posted By: Empiricist
Date Posted: 08 February 2013 at 8:29pm
| Mahdi the hypocrite, God knows your heart. I can forgive this. That does not mean God does. The disciples were given the power to forgive sins IN THE NAME OF JESUS (not said but not needed to be said). If it was so simple to refute there would be no Christians. Do you think us all *****s? You are practicing legalism as the Pharisees, as do all Muslims. You think if you pray at the proper times, and follow all the rules, and maybe kill a few Christians, that you go to heaven and are given virgins to have sex with???? And you actually believe this hogwash? Just another Pharisee, hypocrite. God knows your heart. |
Posted By: Mahdi The Seeke
Date Posted: 10 February 2013 at 5:52am
|
Posted By: Mahdi The Seeke
Date Posted: 10 February 2013 at 6:06am
the next few verses actually say you have to do good deeds to gain life. 24 �Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life. 25 Very truly I tell you, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. 27 And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man. 28 �Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29 and come out�those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned. 30 By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me. Please try to read carefully and read the whole passage/context for better understanding. |
Posted By: Mahdi The Seeke
Date Posted: 10 February 2013 at 6:07am
|
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 11 February 2013 at 2:56pm
Greetings Mahdi, How do you know this was not the type of forgiveness Jesus was trying to lead us to? Salaam, Caringheart ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: Mahdi The Seeke
Date Posted: 12 February 2013 at 10:46am
|
Posted By: honeto
Date Posted: 12 February 2013 at 1:03pm
But when I read that quote, yes it says what it says: "If you forgive anyone's sins, their sins are forgiven". I know it is incorrect to say, only God can forgive sins. We can forgive those who do wrong against us, but to forgive someone's sins like this quote suggests is not and cannot be true. Hasan ------------- The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62 |
Posted By: honeto
Date Posted: 12 February 2013 at 1:07pm
|
This quote from Matthew 6:15 makes sense and is right, if you forgive others, God will forgive you your mistakes.
But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. But the above quotes are saying something completely different. Hasan ------------- The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62 |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 13 February 2013 at 11:15am
Greetings Mahdi, Without the power of the Holy Spirit within me, I promise you, I do not have it in me to forgive gross wrongs committed against me. It is not within my purely human nature to do so. I need the grace of God. Salaam, Caringheart ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: Mahdi The Seeke
Date Posted: 16 February 2013 at 2:43am
|
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 17 February 2013 at 2:00pm
Greetings Mahdi, Did nobody have the grace of God before Jesus came? Salaam, Caringheart ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: Mahdi The Seeke
Date Posted: 17 February 2013 at 10:28pm
|
Posted By: Nur_Ilahi
Date Posted: 18 February 2013 at 7:09pm
Dear Caringheart, The power of the holy spirit in us (Ruh) is pure. The evil one is the Nafs (if uncontrolled). God is Most Merciful, All-Loving. He had given each and everyone of us these characters within us. It is up to us to make full use of it. If we exercise this noble characters, we will get His blessings. We have a choice whether to forgive someone or not. If we still harbor anger and hatred, we are choosing the wrong path - the path of evil. If we choose to pardon the other person, we are showing gratitude to the Almighty for His Mercy. Salam ------------- Ilahi Anta Maksudi, Wa Redhaka Mathlubi - Oh Allah, You are my destination, Your Pleasure is my Intention. |