27 People Dead, Mostly Children
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Topic: 27 People Dead, Mostly Children
Posted By: semar
Subject: 27 People Dead, Mostly Children
Date Posted: 14 December 2012 at 11:35am
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Assalamu alaikum/Peace be upon you, Another bad news. 27 People Dead, Mostly Children, at Connecticut Elementary School Shooting http://gma.yahoo.com/breaking-conn-school-district-locked-down-shooting-report-151955384--abc-news-topstories.html - http://gma.yahoo.com/breaking-conn-school-district-locked-down-shooting-report-151955384--abc-news-topstories.htmlPerhaps we might need to discus gun control more seriously. We limit country to have a lethal weapon (WMD), why we are not do the same to people. Screening ... it doesn't work, I am, can be a very good person today, but no guaranty tomorrow I am not crazy. In my home country there, the life is much more difficult, so there are much more angry/frustrated people, but because they don't have access to lethal weapon, they only have knife, so something like this never happen there. May be just a few people die caused by them, they already stopped by other people, not even need police/SWAT to stop them.Again GUN CONTROL IS THE SOLUTION. ------------- Salam/Peace, Semar "We are people who do not eat until we are hungry and do not eat to our fill." (Prophet Muhammad PBUH) "1/3 of your stomach for food, 1/3 for water, 1/3 for air" |
Replies:
Posted By: Friendship
Date Posted: 14 December 2012 at 12:38pm
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Assalamu alaikum. It is indeed unfortunate! However it could never have been caused by Islamists! Muhammad Rasulullah disallowed the manufacture of arms. Friendship. |
Posted By: semar
Date Posted: 14 December 2012 at 3:37pm
Salam Frienship,
Prophet Muhammad rasulullah pbuh had a sword, also Omar, Abu Bakr, Ali etc, they went to war, if there didn't have arms, what they used to defend themselves, magic flying carpet :)-  ------------- Salam/Peace, Semar "We are people who do not eat until we are hungry and do not eat to our fill." (Prophet Muhammad PBUH) "1/3 of your stomach for food, 1/3 for water, 1/3 for air" |
Friendship wrote:Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 14 December 2012 at 5:59pm
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My response; "we will have to take meaningful action..." - Pres. Obama, 12/14/2012 Do people not see that we need a return to God as the guiding factor in our society, and that is the only 'meaningful action' that will make a difference? We need leaders who will put forth a return to faith and stop putting faith in our own abilities as humans. |
Posted By: schmikbob
Date Posted: 14 December 2012 at 6:42pm
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Are you really suggesting that a lack of faith in God created this horror?
Is this based on information or just another knee jerk.
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Posted By: abuayisha
Date Posted: 14 December 2012 at 6:56pm
Are you calling for a theocracy? And who's faith should guide our leaders? Indeed a slippery slope in a democracy. Also, I'm sure some would argue that your own ability as a human, and your "faith" they are one in the same.
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Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 14 December 2012 at 6:58pm
It means that I see that evil is widely abroad in the world and there is only one thing that can truly combat evil. Peace, CH |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 14 December 2012 at 7:15pm
Our leaders simply need to point us all to something higher than ourselves.. to something higher than themselves. Change must come from the people themselves and leaders need to encourage change. When society goes off course, and positive change is needed, the top needs to use its influence, not power, to guide the people towards change. Change must be encouraged. No amount of making laws will change a society if the people are not changed. Look at Syria trying to force its will. The people want a change. |
Posted By: abuayisha
Date Posted: 14 December 2012 at 7:47pm
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=is2x7QTZ8AI&feature=player_embedded - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=is2x7QTZ8AI&feature=player_embedded |
Posted By: Friendship
Date Posted: 14 December 2012 at 9:15pm
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Assalamu alaikum. Saying something about Muhammad Rasulullah is different from bare reading the holy Qur'an that the Western civilization has been encouraged to do but get misled. Read about his history and you will see the justification. I am not here to argue on Muhammad. Friendship. |
Posted By: Friendship
Date Posted: 14 December 2012 at 9:26pm
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Read the Qur'an 22:12-13: He calls besides Allah unto him that which can neither harm hit, nor profit him. That is straying far away. He calls unto him whose harm is nearer than his profit: certainly, an evil patron and certainly an evil friend! Friendship. |
Posted By: Friendship
Date Posted: 14 December 2012 at 9:32pm
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Assalamu alaikum. But who will initiate and maintain continuity? Nature? The expected earthquake? Sandy hurricane? Is he above all of mankind? Certainly cannot be Abraham, Moses or Jesus son of Maryam. The worst of them is Muhammad Rasulullah! He was innocent for he said: Bring a Book from Allah superior to the Torah (the written and oral law of Moses and what is revealed to me the Qur'an) so that I may follow it for guidance if you are telling the truth. Friendship. |
Posted By: Friendship
Date Posted: 14 December 2012 at 9:41pm
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Assalamu alaika Caringheart. This is from the Qur'an 30:41: Evil (sins and disobedience to Allah) has appeared on land and sea because of what the hands of men have earned (by oppression and evil deeds) that He (Allah) may make them taste a part of that which they have done, in order that they may return (by repenting to Allah and begging His Pardon). What of the remains of your cathedral? Friendship. |
Posted By: Friendship
Date Posted: 14 December 2012 at 9:45pm
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What is the base of the Agnostics? Friendship. |
Posted By: Matt Browne
Date Posted: 16 December 2012 at 6:27am
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There's the saying that God helps those who help themselves. Trust in God but tie your camel is an Arab proverb with a similar meaning and a reported saying of Prophet Muhammad. So how can we help ourselves? Here's what should be on the list in my opinion: 1) Tougher gun control laws 2) More budget for school psychologists 3) Better awareness about the consequences of (online) mobbing 4) Less violence in movies, tv series and computer games 5) Better scripts showing how conflicts can be handled without violence (STNG is a good example) 6) Clear statements from religious leaders that calls for violence in the Old Testament and the Qur'an do not apply to the present time (explaining the historic context why these calls became part of our holy books) ------------- A religion that's intolerant of other religions can't be the world's best religion --Abdel Samad Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people--Eleanor Roosevelt |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 16 December 2012 at 2:58pm
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I can absolutely agree with #3. (... and a few others)  return to family values and structure would go a long way... |
Posted By: nospam001
Date Posted: 16 December 2012 at 7:39pm
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I wish I could be convinced that it is all the work of Satan and therefore my kids will be ok as long as we do enough to please God. Or that it is another example of God simply choosing not to intervene, in order to test people's faith and lead more of us astray, as an example to the rest. But I can't. Instead, sadly, I feel obliged to accept that there are some very disturbed people with easy access to military assault rifles. And that's all it takes. Supernatural 'forces of evil' are not required. How those persons get to be so disturbed is a question I'm not qualified to answer. But I bet there would have been many similar massacres in the US and elsewhere, which have not hit the news headlines for the simple reason that they did not eventuate - thanks to appropriate and timely actions by families, neighbours and community workers, including police, teachers and psychologists. Yes, priests and imams too. But probably not too many politicians, media barons or firearms dealers. Don't get me wrong. I agree that this is the right time for Americans to press for gun control, but tough legislation by itself cannot be 'the' solution. The Australian experience after Port Arthur seems to have raised unrealistic hopes, in that the number of unregistered weapons in circulation here in 1996 was nothing compared to the USA now. ------------- God has the right to remain silent. For His advocates, however, each resigned shrug is a missed opportunity to win new converts. |
Posted By: Friendship
Date Posted: 16 December 2012 at 9:42pm
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Assalamu alaika Caringheart. How can there be awareness without education? Please explain. Friendship. |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 16 December 2012 at 11:00pm
The trouble is that too many people view God like a santa, or a genie that grants wishes and sweeps away troubles. What defeats evil is when people choose to follow God's ways. It is in people that God manifests, and when they do not seek God then evil has its foothold in the void. This is what all people do not see. This is what God means when He says they have 'eyes to see but do not'. They have 'ears to hear and yet they are deaf'... deaf to God's Word and what it means. People have set themselves up as god's instead, believing in themselves... 'there is a way that seems right to man but in the end is death', and 'in their wisdom they became fools'. It's all there in God's Word if people would open their eyes and ears... if people would seek... 'if they would turn and seek My face'... God will only be able to defeat evil when people seek Him and His ways... When the world will turn from its own ways and seek God. 'It is not possible to serve God and the world for if he serves one he will hate the other.' When they serve God they will take care of each other, and when they begin to take care of each other they will be serving God. 'whatever you did for the least of these, you did for Me, and whenever you did not do for the least of them, you did not for Me'. 'Greater Love has no man than this, but that he lay down his life for another' ��Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.� 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: �Love your neighbor as yourself.� 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.� It's all in there. It is this that will defeat evil... when people start serving their higher purpose. It's not about pleasing God... it's about God gives us His Word because by following it we protect ourselves. Peace and blessings, CH |
Posted By: Nausheen
Date Posted: 16 December 2012 at 11:23pm
Greetings Caringheart, Thank you for this post. Have followed your message on this thread. Its like a faint voice in the cacophony. 'If they would turn and seek my face' The Quran says, on the day of judgement people will be sorted in three groups. One of these groups will be those of highest success - they will be the ones who sought His countenance. I have further questions on this subject ... shall we move to interfaith :) ------------- <font color=purple>Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.[/COLOR] |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 17 December 2012 at 12:45pm
Greetings Nausheen, Thank you too, what a needed breath of fresh air you are to me also. "shall we move to interfaith :)"My first thought was, "sure"... my next thought was, "where are we?"  Blessings to you, CH |
Posted By: nospam001
Date Posted: 17 December 2012 at 2:28pm
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My copies of the Bible and the Qur'an are both overflowing with vivid descriptions of heaven and hell, pleasure and pain, angels and demons. It seems that only an elite few are able to see beyond all those blatant appeals to self-interest. Is God seeking to limit the number of valid 'entry tickets'? Why? ------------- God has the right to remain silent. For His advocates, however, each resigned shrug is a missed opportunity to win new converts. |
Posted By: abuayisha
Date Posted: 17 December 2012 at 7:23pm
| http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZDhfC44WN0 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZDhfC44WN0 |
Posted By: Nausheen
Date Posted: 17 December 2012 at 7:33pm
Surah Waqiyah says that the 'entry tickets' are given to a large number of the former people, and a few of later times:'ثُلَّةٌ من الأوَّلين و قليلٌ مِن الأخِرين' Sahih International56:8-15 And you become [of] three kinds: Then the companions of the right - what are the companions of the right? And the companions of the left - what are the companions of the left? And the forerunners, the forerunners - Those are the ones brought near [to Allah ] In the Gardens of Pleasure, A [large] company of the former peoples And a few of the later peoples, ------------- <font color=purple>Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.[/COLOR] |
Posted By: nospam001
Date Posted: 18 December 2012 at 12:35am
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Billions more devout Muslims have lived and died since Mohammad's time, compared to the entire history of humanity up to that point - especially if you accept the genealogy of Abrahamic scripture. The chances of a given Muslim earning a valid 'entry ticket' these days must be tiny in percentage terms. Is that because the 'average believer' was somehow 'more deserving' back then? Or have the entry criteria become more exclusive? How might that be interpreted as fair? What purposes could it serve? For me, the incentives that work best are usually the ones that are not so far out of reach. ------------- God has the right to remain silent. For His advocates, however, each resigned shrug is a missed opportunity to win new converts. |
Posted By: Friendship
Date Posted: 18 December 2012 at 1:49am
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Assalamu alaika Nospam001 You are an Agnostic and you are arguing in the manner I argue with the followers of Muhammad. The point is, when one says something and the other refers to that from a certain source of certainty unaffected by time and relativity, and asserts that as part of his faith, why should we then be disagreeing with one another? You have no source, while my source is the Old Testament confirmed by the Qur'an. Do you know about the Levi tribes and the Standard Allah set in disciplining the then Children of Israel? Why did Allah punish Achan? Is peace not then common to all revelations? The common belief of the followers of Muhammad is they will disobey him and enter Paradise. They never like to be corrected. Friendship. |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 18 December 2012 at 11:14am
Greetings nospam001, The way to God is a narrow road... Why? Because to be with God in paradise we must first be purified... refined in the fire. Nothing impure can reside in the presence of God who is pure. It takes much to purge the dross and reveal the gold. How much ore must go into the fire to produce one ounce of gold? The trouble is not that God is limiting us but rather we limit ourselves... deceived and distracted by the devil's tactics... the things of this world... the things of the flesh. The trouble is that among the masses there are only a few who choose to seek God... God first, and God above all else. There are only a few who are able to put on the blinders and ignore the distractions, to put self aside... to not be misled. Salaam, CH Interesting name by the way... I only got it as I sounded it out as I typed just now. ____________________________________ wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. (the words of Jesus in the Gospel) |
Posted By: Friendship
Date Posted: 18 December 2012 at 1:15pm
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Assalamu alaikum. The problem of man is he is ungrateful in many ways to the Mercy and Forgiveness of Allah. Many of us disregard the Old Testament while according to my research it is the backbone of understanding the Nature of the G-d (the Allah) of Abraham. There is every lesson in each chapter and subsection from the Book of genesis to Exodus. The Book of Numbers, Levictus, Deuteronomy are extracts and further explanations of the Book of Exodus. Let us for example reflect on the lessons between Abimelech and Abraham in establishing a promise on loyalty and a peace treaty. The number 7 after the peace treaty is significant to the Muslims. Imagine Allah telling us that he counted the number of times Pharaoh refused to be guided by His signs. Imagine the quails, cloud and dew given to the Children of Israel immediately after the crossing of the Red sea! There are abundant lessons pointing to the Mercy of Allah but we dislike and disbelieve in them. The He tells us that he does not forgive when He is disobeyed intentionally. So what else is mankind looking from Allah? It is not that Allah is seeking to limit the number of valid entry tickets but like an aircraft in the sky, he is guided by his flight plan. This is applicable in all our walks of life. Friendship |
Posted By: nospam001
Date Posted: 18 December 2012 at 1:49pm
 ------------- God has the right to remain silent. For His advocates, however, each resigned shrug is a missed opportunity to win new converts. |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 18 December 2012 at 4:47pm
Hi nospam001, Without taking alot of time to delve into it... this is why I am always saying that I follow the new testament... the new covenant scriptures and not the old. God tells us in the scriptures that He 'will do a new thing' and this new thing is, He sends to us Jesus, to lead us to Him through Love. I do not believe Jesus preached to a selfish nature. Jesus was disturbed with His disciples when He found them arguing over who would have the best position in heaven. They were missing the whole point of His message. CH I still like the name... makes me laugh now when I type it.  |
Posted By: nospam001
Date Posted: 19 December 2012 at 12:48am
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I used the word 'tiny' in a relative sense. My main point is that the estimated likelihood of a randomly selected Believer 'earning a ticket to Paradise' has diminished by a lot during the last few millennia. What we cannot measure is whether it's fallen from 50% to 10%, say, or from 5% to 0.00001%. I'm not an epidemiologist, but the math involved is quite straightforward - enough that the question 'why' immediately springs to mind. ------------- God has the right to remain silent. For His advocates, however, each resigned shrug is a missed opportunity to win new converts. |
Posted By: Friendship
Date Posted: 19 December 2012 at 11:24am
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Assalamu alaika Nospam001. I am an epidemiologist and Muhammad Rasullah has already given the statistics: Out of every 1000 only one will get his ticket to paradise. Do you know the reason? Read ISBN 1468070444. But we are disagreeing even in this very thread? I referred to Torah, the Islam of Moses while you do not have a base? Friendship. |
Posted By: nospam001
Date Posted: 19 December 2012 at 1:30pm
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------------- God has the right to remain silent. For His advocates, however, each resigned shrug is a missed opportunity to win new converts. |
Posted By: Friendship
Date Posted: 19 December 2012 at 1:51pm
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Assalamu alaika Semar. I just saw your thread. You are saying so because you want to play and ridicule Muhammad. Muhammad at the age of 15 years participated in the battle of Buath where he collected arrows. He said later: Whenever I remember the Buath war, I regret participating and collecting arrows. Muhammad never held a sword, but only a knife he slaughtered his camels during the pilgrimage. Umar, Abubakar never fought with a sword in any battle. In the battle of Badr and other battles Ali depended Islam which is a simplified written and oral law of Moses. If the children of Israel fought, Muhammad must do so. The battles fought by them were on necessity. They ran away to Madina and were pursued. What do you want them to do? Please let us me matured and tell the truth. Friendship. |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 19 December 2012 at 9:26pm
Hi nospam, Good points. My understanding of revelation is that it will be humans who are wreaking havoc and destruction upon one another, not God. I will probably have to go back to reading Revelation again.  |
Posted By: Idil
Date Posted: 25 December 2012 at 2:51pm
| This was a very sad case and cannot comprehend how someone would even target children the age of 6-7. It is time though for America to rethink its gun laws. Over here in the UK, even the police don`t have a gun. When individuals can get ease access to gun sometimes the unthinkable takes place and for this reason we should most definitely limit the ease of access. |
Posted By: Matt Browne
Date Posted: 16 January 2013 at 5:36am
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I hope Obama will succeed with his decree. ------------- A religion that's intolerant of other religions can't be the world's best religion --Abdel Samad Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people--Eleanor Roosevelt |