JESUS LIED
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Topic: JESUS LIED
Posted By: Mahdi The Seeke
Subject: JESUS LIED
Date Posted: 04 August 2012 at 5:19am
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Good News Translation (GNT) Jesus Speaks of the Destruction of the Temple 24 Jesus left and was going away from the Temple when his disciples came to him to call his attention to its buildings. 2 �Yes,� he said, �you may well look at all these. I tell you this: not a single stone here will be left in its place; every one of them will be thrown down.� Troubles and Persecutions 3 As Jesus sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him in private. �Tell us when all this will be,� they asked, �and what will happen to show that it is the time for your coming and the end of the age.� 4 Jesus answered, �Watch out, and do not let anyone fool you. 5 Many men, claiming to speak for me, will come and say, �I am the Messiah!� and they will fool many people. 6 You are going to hear the noise of battles close by and the news of battles far away; but do not be troubled. Such things must happen, but they do not mean that the end has come. 7 Countries will fight each other; kingdoms will attack one another. There will be famines and earthquakes everywhere. 8 All these things are like the first pains of childbirth. 9 �Then you will be arrested and handed over to be punished and be put to death. Everyone will hate you because of me. 10 Many will give up their faith at that time; they will betray one another and hate one another. 11 Then many false prophets will appear and fool many people. 12 Such will be the spread of evil that many people's love will grow cold. 13 But whoever holds out to the end will be saved. 14 And this Good News about the Kingdom will be preached through all the world for a witness to all people; and then the end will come. The Awful Horror 15 �You will see �The Awful Horror� of which the prophet Daniel spoke. It will be standing in the holy place.� (Note to the reader: understand what this means!) 16 �Then those who are in Judea must run away to the hills. 17 Someone who is on the roof of a house must not take the time to go down and get any belongings from the house. 18 Someone who is in the field must not go back to get a cloak. 19 How terrible it will be in those days for women who are pregnant and for mothers with little babies! 20 Pray to God that you will not have to run away during the winter or on a Sabbath! 21 For the trouble at that time will be far more terrible than any there has ever been, from the beginning of the world to this very day. Nor will there ever be anything like it again. 22 But God has already reduced the number of days; had he not done so, nobody would survive. For the sake of his chosen people, however, God will reduce the days. 23 �Then, if anyone says to you, �Look, here is the Messiah!� or �There he is!��do not believe it. 24 For false Messiahs and false prophets will appear; they will perform great miracles and wonders in order to deceive even God's chosen people, if possible. 25 Listen! I have told you this ahead of time. 26 �Or, if people should tell you, �Look, he is out in the desert!��don't go there; or if they say, �Look, he is hiding here!��don't believe it. 27 For the Son of Man will come like the lightning which flashes across the whole sky from the east to the west. 28 �Wherever there is a dead body, the vultures will gather. The Coming of the Son of Man 29 �Soon after the trouble of those days, the sun will grow dark, the moon will no longer shine, the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers in space will be driven from their courses. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky; and all the peoples of earth will weep as they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 The great trumpet will sound, and he will send out his angels to the four corners of the earth, and they will gather his chosen people from one end of the world to the other. The Lesson of the Fig Tree 32 �Let the fig tree teach you a lesson. When its branches become green and tender and it starts putting out leaves, you know that summer is near. 33 In the same way, when you see all these things, you will know that the time is near, ready to begin.[a> 34 Remember that all these things will happen before the people now living have all died. Matthew 16:27-28 Good News Translation (GNT) 27 For the Son of Man is about to come in the glory of his Father with his angels, and then he will reward each one according to his deeds. 28 I assure you that there are some here who will not die until they have seen the Son of Man come as King.� Mark 8:38-9:1 New International Version (NIV) 38 If anyone is ashamed of me and my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will be ashamed of them when he comes in his Father�s glory with the holy angels.� And he said to them, �Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see that the kingdom of God has come with power.� Mark 13:26-30 Good News Translation (GNT) 26 Then the Son of Man will appear, coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 He will send the angels out to the four corners of the earth to gather God's chosen people from one end of the world to the other. The Lesson of the Fig Tree 28 �Let the fig tree teach you a lesson. When its branches become green and tender and it starts putting out leaves, you know that summer is near. 29 In the same way, when you see these things happening, you will know that the time is near, ready to begin.[a> 30 Remember that all these things will happen before the people now living have all died. �But Jesus kept silent and the high priest said to Him, �I adjure you by the living God, that you tell us whether you are the Christ, the Son of God.� Jesus said to him, �You have said it yourself; nevertheless I tell you, hereafter you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.�� (Matthew 26: 63, 64) The high priest/people at the trial will see Jesus coming on the clouds of heaven "Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, EVEN THOSE WHO PIERCED HIM..." (Revelation 1:7 NASB).Those who pierced Jesus will see him coming. Matthew 10:23 English Standard Version (ESV) 23 When they persecute you in one town, flee to the next, for truly, I say to you, you will not have gone through all the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.' PAUL believed he would not die before Jesus comes back. �For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.� (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17) 1 Corinthians 15:50-52 New International Version (NIV) 50 I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed� 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. Finally Hebrews 10:37 For, �Yet a little while, and the coming one will come and will not delay' What 'a little while it has been. Truly he has not 'delaye |
Replies:
Posted By: Abu Loren
Date Posted: 04 August 2012 at 5:45am
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Instead of using attention grabbing headline may be you should have used something like 'Invented verse in the Bible'. Similarly Mark 9:7 is very hard to believe too. 9:7 And there was a cloud that overshadowed them: and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him. |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 06 August 2012 at 4:36pm
Did he lie? I can understand why some might see it this way. I have examined and questioned this passage myself. This is how I have come to see it, through much reflection and communing with God, who reveals all truth; Was Jesus wrong... or is it that He was referring to the fact that they would see Him rise in glory and come to know and understand the real nature of the kingdom that God was promising?   |
Mahdi The Seeke wrote:Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 06 August 2012 at 8:30pm
Sincere question: Why is this any harder to believe than your belief that the angel Jibril spoke to Muhammad in the cave though no one was present to witness it? In the one case you have apparently many witnesses, where in the other you have none. |
Posted By: Abu Loren
Date Posted: 08 August 2012 at 2:56am
I could say that what has been written in the Gospels are not exactly what happened to Jesus (pbuh) but added many years later. I have been told through the Holy Qur'an that God does not have a son, so on that basis I believe this piece of the verse to be incorrect and an addition. True, there were no eye witnesses to the meeting between prophet Muhammed (pbuh) and the Archangel Jibeil (AS) in the caves of Hira but billions of Muslims believe it through faith as was required by God. Sahih International And even if We had sent down to you, [O Muhammad], a written scripture on a page and they touched it with their hands, the disbelievers would say, "This is not but obvious magic." And they say, "Why was there not sent down to him an angel?" But if We had sent down an angel, the matter would have been decided; then they would not be reprieved. And if We had made him an angel, We would have made him [appear as] a man, and We would have covered them with that in which they cover themselves. And already were messengers ridiculed before you, but those who mocked them were enveloped by that which they used to ridicule. 6:7-10 |
Posted By: Mahdi The Seeke
Date Posted: 08 August 2012 at 10:01am
| I quoted a different more direct verse |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 08 August 2012 at 6:54pm
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"And if We had made him
an angel, We would have made him [appear as] a man, and We would have
covered them with that in which they cover themselves." and so, why is it hard to understand God sending His Son to 'appear as a man'... to be in human form? |
Posted By: Abu Loren
Date Posted: 09 August 2012 at 2:47am
This is the explanation of that particular verse. And had We appointed him, the
one who is sent down to them, an angel, We would assuredly have made him, the
angel, a man, that is, [We would have sent him] in the form of a man, so that
they would be able to see him, since no human being is capable of seeing an
angel; and, had We sent him down and made him a man, We would have assuredly
confused, obscured, for them what they are confusing, for themselves, when they
say, �This is but a mere mortal like the rest of you�. http://www.altasfir.com - www.altasfir.com
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Posted By: Mahdi The Seeke
Date Posted: 09 August 2012 at 4:45am
off topic |
Posted By: Mahdi The Seeke
Date Posted: 09 August 2012 at 4:51am
It is easy to lie about something that is not verifiable. Can you produce those people who heard the voice from the cloud? Its like a guy lyi |
Posted By: Mahdi The Seeke
Date Posted: 09 August 2012 at 5:00am
It is easy to lie about something that is not verifiable. Can you produce those people who heard the voice from the cloud? You have to take the word of the gospel writer for it. Since the Gospels were written many years after the events they report, lies or exaggerations could have been added. Besides, you are going off topic |
Posted By: Friendship
Date Posted: 12 August 2012 at 1:00pm
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Assalamu alaika Mahdi. Jesus never lied. If Matthew 16:27-28 is in red letter, then it is the true word of Jesus. I have not seen my King James version that differentiated the speech of Jesus in red and others in black. I feel as if it should be in red print because there is close resemblance to Qur'an. Friendship |
Posted By: Experiential
Date Posted: 15 August 2012 at 4:03am
Verse 27 is referring to his return as Jesus the Mesiah to judge the world at the last days and Verse 28 is him referring to some of them not dying until they see his kingdom expanding leading up to and after his resurection ?
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Posted By: Mahdi The Seeke
Date Posted: 16 August 2012 at 12:17am
Where is the word 'expanding' in the verses? It says some of them will not die until they Jesus coming in his kingdom aka second coming i.e with angels to pass judgement. They are all dead yet still no sign of Jesus. |
Posted By: Experiential
Date Posted: 18 August 2012 at 9:26pm
Jesus often said his Kingdom is expanding, for example in Luke 13:18 � Then Jesus asked, "What is the And in Luke 13:20 Again he asked, "What shall I compare the
Mathew 16 Verse 27 is talking about the second coming. But verse 28 is talking about his expanding, unfolding and coming power while they are still alive. If you read on you will read about his expanding and unfolding power in his transfiguration which is evidence of this and if you keep reading on to the end of the gospel it demonstrates his unfolding power all the way to the resurrection which many of them were witnesses to. Also if you cross reference to Mark 9.1 the break between him talking about his second coming and then later talking about his resurrection is more clearly defined. |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 18 August 2012 at 10:14pm
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@Mahdi, Did you see my reply? Jesus was with the Apostles for 40 days after His death and resurrection. They did see Him, and saw what His kingdom really meant. That is where the whole Word of Christ and the Christian message came from. Before they saw Him resurrected they did not understand that His kingdom was not of this earth. After the death and resurrection, and seeing Him again, they understood. They also experienced what Jesus had promised, and that was the coming of the comforter, the Holy Spirit which entered into them at Pentacost, and then they were able to go and do the miracles of Jesus. They saw Jesus ascend to His kingdom. |
Posted By: Mahdi The Seeke
Date Posted: 22 August 2012 at 1:57am
1.When did Jesus come with angels in the glory of his Father to judge? 'Coming in his kingdom' refers to coming and Judging which he promised to do in the lifetime of some who were listening. 2. If his Kingdom is not of this earth, why will he/why does he have to come back? |
Posted By: Mahdi The Seeke
Date Posted: 22 August 2012 at 3:33am
The verse does not say the apostles will see ' his expanding, unfolding and coming power while they are still alive.' or 'his unfolding power all the way to the resurrection' . Jesus did not say 'you will see my expanding unfolding power' He said ' Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man (Jesus himself, not his expanding unfolding power ) coming in his kingdom.� Coming in his kingdom which he had described in the previous sentence as 'the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay each person according to what he has done'. |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 23 August 2012 at 7:52pm
Jesus will come in glory to judge at the second coming.
Who says it does. All Jesus said was that you will see me coming[into] my kingdom... which they did when they saw Him ascend to heaven. He has to come back to oust the devil and make it His own. The seeds have been sown(with Adam and Eve) and have needed their time to come to fruition, then will be the reaping.
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Posted By: Mahdi The Seeke
Date Posted: 24 August 2012 at 4:37am
1.He said ' Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.� Coming in his kingdom which he had described in the previous sentence as 'the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay each person according to what he has done'. Matthew 16:27-28 English Standard Version (ESV) 27 For the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay each person according to what he has done. 28 Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.� The verses are clear enough. 2. There is a difference between coming and going. Going to heaven involves moving away from earth, coming is the complete opposite. Both statements use coming. 3. "He has to come back to oust the devil and make it His own. The seeds have been sown(with Adam and Eve) and have needed their time to come to fruition, then will be the reaping."Colourful imagination. Please always quote direct scriptual evidence for your position otherwise i may conclude that your position is something you made up in your mind. |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 25 August 2012 at 9:13pm
I have no problem with the scriptures as they are written. Jesus came into His kingdom when He rose to heaven, and the apostles finally saw what He had been trying to tell them. He will come again(to earth) with His angels to judge the living and the dead. I have no conflict with these two concepts. I understand though that you do. As far as #3, I would have to quote you the entire Bible. The scriptures are written all through the Bible to support what I wrote, but you have to know and take all the scriptures as a whole. It is necessary to understand both old testament and new testament, but it was mainly something Jesus spoke of all the time. Sowing and reaping... preparing the soil... those who would receive th seed and those who wouldn't... and when the time was right He would return for those who belong to Him.
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Posted By: Experiential
Date Posted: 26 August 2012 at 3:13am
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MAHDI THE SEER SAID �
The verse does not say the apostles will see ' his expanding, unfolding and coming power while they are still alive.' or 'his unfolding power all the way to the resurrection' . Jesus did not say 'you will see my expanding unfolding power' He said ' Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man (Jesus himself, not his expanding unfolding power ) coming in his kingdom.� Coming in his kingdom which he had described in the previous sentence as 'the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay each person according to what he has done'. MY REPLY � If you cross reference to Mark 9.1 the break between him talking about his second coming and then later talking about his resurrection is more clearly defined. Also you cannot read one verse in isolation and out of context with the rest of the bible. So in the light of that - Jesus often said his Kingdom is expanding, unfolding or developing in power, for example in Luke 13:18 to 13:21 � Then Jesus asked, "What is the kingdom of God like? What shall I compare it to? It is like a mustard seed, which a man took and planted in his garden. It grew and became a tree, and the birds of the air perched in its branches." Again he asked, "What shall I compare the kingdom of God to? �It is like yeast that a woman took and mixed into a large amount [fn] of flour until it worked all through the dough." Mathew 16 Verse 27 is talking about the second coming. But verse 28 is talking about his unfolding and coming power while they are still alive. If you read from Mathew 16 onwards into chapter 17 you will see his unfolding power in his transfiguration which is evidence and if you keep reading on to the end of the gospel it demonstrates his unfolding power all the way to the resurrection which many of them were witnesses to. Mahdi the Seek said � |
Posted By: Mahdi The Seeke
Date Posted: 29 September 2012 at 6:53am
| More information |