"Thousands Mark Hiroshima A-bomb 60th Anniversary"

By George Nishiyama

HIROSHIMA, Japan (Reuters) - Tens of thousands of people from around the world gathered in Hiroshima on Saturday to renew calls for the abolition of nuclear arms on the 60th anniversary of the atomic bombing of the city.

Under a blazing summer sun, survivors and families of victims assembled at the Peace Memorial Park near "ground zero," the spot where the bomb detonated on Aug. 6, 1945, killing thousands and leveling the city.

The anniversary comes as regional powers meet in Beijing to urge North Korea to give up its nuclear program, seen by Tokyo as a threat and one of the reasons behind rising calls in Japan to strengthen its defense and seek closer military ties with the United States.

Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi was among those attending the ceremony in Hiroshima, 690 km (430 miles) southwest of Tokyo.

At 8:15 a.m., the time when the U.S. B-29 warplane Enola Gay dropped the bomb, people at the park and throughout the city observed a minute's silence in memory of those who perished.

Bells at temples and churches rang and passengers on the streetcars that run throughout the city bowed their heads in remembrance of the dead, including those incinerated while riding the streetcars.

"This Aug. 6 ... is a time of inheritance, of awakening, and of commitment, in which we inherit the commitment of the bomb victims to the abolition of nuclear weapons and realisation of genuine world peace," Hiroshima mayor Tadatoshi Akiba told the gathering.

Akiba said in his Peace Declaration that the five established nuclear powers -- the United States, Russia, Britain, France and China -- as well as India, Pakistan and North Korea were "jeopardising human survival."

The Hiroshima bomb unleashed a mix of shockwaves, heat rays and radiation that killed thousands instantly.

By the end of 1945 the toll had risen to some 140,000 out of an estimated population of 350,000. Thousands more died of illness and injuries later.

On Aug. 9, 1945, three days after the Hiroshima attack, another atomic bomb was dropped on Nagasaki.

Japan surrendered on Aug. 15, ending the military aggression that brought it into World War II.

Yohei Kono, the speaker of parliament's lower house, said the Hiroshima anniversary should remind Japan not to return to militarism and the world not to use nuclear weapons again.

"We made a mistake in choosing our path in Asia and followed a road to war," said Kono.

"We took away the independence of Korea and we intervened in China using the military ... one of the results of fighting against the international community was the dropping of the atomic bomb."

PACIFIST CONSTITUTION

At Saturday's ceremony another 5,375 names were added to the list of Hiroshima's dead, bringing the total to 242,437.

Koizumi, in brief remarks, vowed to stick to the principles of Japan's pacifist constitution and its decades-old ban on nuclear weapons.

"I am confident that Hiroshima will remain a symbol of peace," he said.

Koizumi's Liberal Democratic Party earlier this week released a draft of proposed revisions to Japan's post-war, pacifist constitution that would allow the military to act not only in self-defense but also to take part in global security efforts.

Referring to such proposals, Akiba said: "The Japanese constitution, which embodies this axiom forever as the sovereign will of a nation, should be a guiding light for the world in the 21st century."

Although support for revising the core pacifist clause remains short of a majority, public opinion is no longer overwhelmingly opposed to it. Some politicians even talk of Japan having nuclear weapons, long a taboo.

Even some people in Hiroshima for the anniversary said Japan might have to go nuclear to counter the North Korean threat.

"The best is if talks with the United States go well and North Korea gives up its weapons," said Yoshiaki Onoue, 45, referring to the talks in Beijing aimed at persuading the North to abandon its nuclear ambitions.

"But Japan may need to have nuclear weapons as insurance," said Onoue, visiting the Peace Memorial Park with his family from Osaka, about 300 km (190 miles) east of Hiroshima.

Sunao Tsuboi, an 80-year-old survivor who heads a group of victims, said keeping memories of the bombing alive was his greatest mission.

"As we get old, even among victims the anger, that raging feeling toward the A-bomb, has waned ... Aug. 6 is being played up this year as it's the 60th anniversary, but I wonder about next year."

Reuters

Bismillah,

The rhetoric of destruction rules.  What happened to dismantlement of our nuclear arsenals?  The cold war led to this idea that we should not even possess such destructive forces.  I still believe so. 

How dare my country run around defaming others for having weapons of mass destruction when that is what our power in the world is based on!  We need to seek dismantlement of such weapons beginning with the US of A. 

It is never acceptable to kill or have the ability to kill so many human beings at one time.

What ppl here forget is that the reason we didn't have WWIII btwn the US and the USSR was because of MAD...if you don't know what MAD means then you simply have no right to talk about nuclear weapons.

Bismillah,

Who invented the atom bomb then?  If you don't know the answer without looking it up, you still have the right to discuss it in my book.

Actually, the US didnt need to drop the bombs. Apparently the Japanese were about to give up anyway. Quite apart from the fact that they had run out of food and supplies and weapons, the Russians were threatening to march east. The Japanese knew this and realised that if the Russians were allowed to fight the Japanese, Japan would be annexed and divided between the Russians and the US.

However, for exactly the same reason, the US decided that dropping the bombs would be a good idea. They didn't want the Russians to attack Japan and so they dropped the bomb to finish the war AND should the Russians that they HAD the bomb.

Apparently.

Kim...

firewall wrote: what makes it truly remarkable is how the Japanese got up again after being knocked down. muslims could learn something...

Um - the US helped them a LOT.

The Japanese also gave up having a military and stopped attacking the rest of the world.

You _sure_ some Muslims could learn from them now?

Kim... 

Bismillah

This is the Defiant America. Dumb, deaf and blind they will never return.

No argument here, B - what Japan did in the early part of the 20th century was absolutely evil.

Ask the Koreans, the Chinese, the "comfort women", WWII survivors, their relatives, etc.

Kim...

Hey, no argument there, either!

Kim...

The comedian Jibreel:

i think people want wars because they lost there faith God, they do not even
think about it., even if they considered God to be there conscience.

Most wars are fought over God, usually through how to interpret God and his message. From the 30 years war in Europe where parts of Germany lost 60% of its population, to the Wahhabi's killing upwards of 1 million people to impose its theological dictatorship over the Peninsula. People forget the message of God, because usually people fight over God. Bush it can be argued is fighting Iraq for God, as he see's it as a nessecary step to secure Israel which is nessecary for the second coming of the messiah.

And i say this is becquse some people hqve been putting there faith in
other things then facing there own actions by depending on them for
everything, like oil, money and power.

In the US many people who supported the war in Iraq, supported it for religious reasons. So learn before you speak Jibreel...you really know very little.

The moment a person realizes that everyone and everything is God's
creation, then and only then they can accept others.,

Funny it is you who cannot accept that people don't believe in Islam, and your continual attacks on Christanity show this. Hypocrite.

Bismillah,

Nico, the spirit of what Jibreel said seems genuine to me and in agreement with you.  People lose their initial reason for war and lose their faith in God along the way forgetting the religious reason and fight for egotistical ones.

B, Any bomb dropped on civilian populations is wrong Islamically because we are instructed not to wage war against non-combatants.  That seems very clear to me.  The Japanese atrocities were committed by the soldiers, not the civilians yet the civilians were devasted by the US bombs.  There is no justification for this action in front of Allah, SWT. 

Bismillah,

The atrocities were committed by the military.  The bombs were "dropped" by our military purposefully to kill millions of civilians.

I think instead of dropped, hurled or exploded on, or better yet, unleashed would match the violence of the word atrocities.  Who planned the unleashing of this evil nuclear weapon in the cities of Japan?  The scientists who created them had a good idea of what the nuclear weapons would do to people, and so did our administration who authorized them.

These bombs were a vicious act by a vicious government.  Just as 9/11 was a political, vicious attack, so was this.  Fortunately the perpetrators of 9/11 didn't have nuclear weaponary available to them, or that explosion would have been much, much worse in human civilian lives.

Yes, the sheer volume and size of Hiroshima and Nagasaki's devastation makes a difference in how the world views the devastation of these three cities.  And because the administration which unleashed the bombs on Japan in America is gone, we try to place the blame elsewhere, but we Americans are responsible especially people who justify the use of such destructive, evil weapons. 

We need to return to nuclear disarmament.  Many of us learned from the horrible devastation in Japan that nuclear arms have no place in a civilized world.

The kamikaze pilots the world has known, are known for their distruction where they were sent, but what ppl do not know is why they were there. They were not millitants, or suicide bombers, because they were not coming thru their own will.

The War is Over . . . Please Come Out

In 1944, Lt. Hiroo Onoda was sent by the Japanese army to the remote Philippine island of Lubang. His mission was to conduct guerrilla warfare during World War II. Unfortunately, he was never officially told the war had ended; so for 29 years, Onoda continued to live in the jungle, ready for when his country would again need his services and information. Eating coconuts and bananas and deftly evading searching parties he believed were enemy scouts, Onoda hid in the jungle until he finally emerged from the dark recesses of the island on March 19, 1972.

Called to Duty
Hiroo Onoda was 20 years-old when he was called up to join the army. At the time, he was far from home working at a branch of the Tajima Yoko trading company in Hankow (now Wuhan), China. After passing his physical, Onoda quit his job and returned to his home in Wakayama, http://geography.about.com/library/maps/bljapan.htm - Japan in August of 1942 to get into top physical condition.

In the Japanese army, Onoda was trained as an officer and was then chosen to be trained at an Imperial Army intelligence school. At this school, Onoda was taught how to gather intelligence and how to conduct guerrilla warfare.

In the Philippines
On December 17, 1944, Lt. Hiroo Onoda left for the http://geography.about.com/library/maps/blphilippines.htm - Philippines to join the Sugi Brigade (the Eighth Division from Hirosaki). Here, Onoda was given orders by Major Yoshimi Taniguchi and Major Takahashi. Onoda was ordered to lead the Lubang Garrison in guerrilla warfare. As Onoda and his comrades were getting ready to leave on their separate missions, they stopped by to report to the division commander. The division commander ordered:

You are absolutely forbidden to die by your own hand. It may take three years, it may take five, but whatever happens, we'll come back for you. Until then, so long as you have one soldier, you are to continue to lead him. You may have to live on coconuts. If that's the case, live on coconuts! Under no circumstances are you [to] give up your life voluntarily.¹

On Lubang
Once on the island of Lubang, Onoda was supposed to blow up the pier at the harbor and destroy the Lubang airfield. Unfortunately, the garrison commanders, who were worried about other matters, decided not to help Onoda on his mission and soon the island was overrun by the Allies. The remaining Japanese soldiers, Onoda included, retreated into the inner regions of the island and split up into groups. As these groups dwindled in size after several attacks, the remaining soldiers split into cells of 3 and 4 people. There were four people in Onoda's cell: Corporal Shoichi Shimada (age 30), Private Kinshichi Kozuka (age 24), Private Yuichi Akatsu (age 22), and Lt. Hiroo Onoda (now age 23).

They lived very close together, with very limited supplies: the clothes they were wearing, a small amount of rice, and each had a gun with limited ammunition. Rationing the rice was difficult and caused fights, but they supplemented it with coconuts and bananas. Every once in a while, they were able to kill a civilian's cow for food.

The cells would save up their energy and use guerrilla tactics to fight in skirmishes. Other cells were captured or were killed while Onoda's continued to fight from the interior.

The War is Over...Come Out!
Onoda first saw a leaflet that claimed the war was over in October 1945. When another cell had killed a cow, they found a leaflet left behind by the islanders which read: "The war ended on August 15. Come down from the mountains!"² But as they sat in the jungle, the leaflet just didn't seem to make sense, for another cell had just been fired upon a few days ago. If the war were over, why would they still be under attack? No, they decided, the leaflet must be a clever ruse by the Allied propagandists.

Again, the outside world tried to contact the survivors living on the island by dropping leaflets out of a Boeing B-17 near the end of 1945. Printed on these leaflets was the surrender order from General Yamash*ta of the Fourteenth Area Army. Having already hidden on the island for a year and with the only proof of the end of the war being this leaflet, Onoda and the others scrutinized every letter and every word on this piece of paper. One sentence in particular seemed suspicious, it said that those who surrendered would receive "hygienic succor" and be "hauled" to Japan. Again, they believed this must be an Allied hoax.

Leaflet after leaflet was dropped. Newspapers were left. Photographs and letters from relatives were dropped. Friends and relatives spoke out over loudspeakers. There was always something suspicious, so they never believed that the war had really ended.

Over the Years
Year after year, the four men huddled together in the rain, searched for food, and sometimes attacked villagers. They fired on the villagers because, "We considered people dressed as islanders to be enemy troops in disguise or enemy spies. The proof that they were was that whenever we fired on one of them, a search party arrived shortly afterward."³ It had become a cycle of disbelief. Isolated from the rest of the world, everyone appeared to be the enemy.

In 1949, Akatsu wanted to surrender. He didn't tell any of the others; he just walked away. In September 1949 he successfully got away from the others and after six months on his own in the jungle, Akatsu surrendered. To Onoda's cell, this seemed like a security leak and they became even more careful of their position.

In June 1953, Shimada was wounded during a skirmish. Though his leg wound slowly got better (without any medicines or bandages), he became gloomy. On May 7, 1954, Shimada was killed in a skirmish on the beach at Gontin.

For nearly 20 years after Shimad's death, Kozuka and Onoda continued to live in the jungle together, awaiting the time when they would again be needed by the Japanese army. Per the division commanders instructions, they believed it was their job to remain behind enemy lines, reconnoiter and gather intelligence to be able to train Japanese troops in guerrilla warfare in order to regain the Philippine islands.

Surrender
In October 1972, at the age of 51 and after 27 years of hiding, Kozuka was killed during a clash with a Filipino patrol. Though Onoda had been officially declared dead in December 1959 Kozuka's body proved the likelihood that Onoda was still living. Search parties were sent out to find Onoda, but none succeeded.

Onoda was now on his own. Remembering the division commander's order, he could not kill himself yet he no longer had a single soldier to command. Onoda continued to hide.

In 1974, a college dropout named Norio Suzuki decided to travel to the Philippines, Malaysia, Singapore, Burma, Nepal, and perhaps a few other countries on his way. He told his friends that he was going to search for Lt. Onoda, a panda, and the Abominable Snowman.⁴ Where so many others had failed, Suzuki succeeded. He found Lt. Onoda and tried to convince him that the war was over. Onoda explained that he would only surrender if his commander ordered him to do so.

Suzuki traveled back to Japan and found Onoda's former commander, Major Taniguchi, who had become a bookseller. On March 9, 1974, Suzuki and Taniguchi met Onoda at a preappointed place and Major Taniguchi read the orders that stated all combat activity was to be ceased. Onoda was shocked and, at first, disbelieving. It took some time for the news to sink in.

We really lost the war! How could they have been so sloppy?

Suddenly everything went black. A storm raged inside me. I felt like a fool for having been so tense and cautious on the way here. Worse than that, what had I been doing for all these years?

Gradually the storm subsided, and for the first time I really understood: my thirty years as a guerrilla fighter for the Japanese army were abruptly finished. This was the end.

I pulled back the bolt on my rifle and unloaded the bullets. . . .

I eased off the pack that I always carried with me and laid the gun on top of it. Would I really have no more use for this rifle that I had polished and cared for like a baby all these years? Or Kozuka's rifle, which I had hidden in a crevice in the rocks? Had the war really ended thirty years ago? If it had, what had Shimada and Kozuka died for? If what was happening was true, wouldn't it have been better if I had died with them?⁵

When Onoda reached Japan, he was hailed a hero. Life in Japan was much different than when he had left it in 1944. Onoda bought a ranch and moved to Brazil. In May 1996, he returned to the Philippines to see once again the island on which he had hidden for 30 years.

1. Hiroo Onoda, No Surrender: My Thirty-Year War (New York: Kodansha International Ltd., 1974) 44.
2. Onoda, No Surrender 75.
3. Onoda, No Surrender 94.
4. Onoda, No Surrender 7.
5. Onoda, No Surrender 14-15.

Amazing story, but sure shows how scarily strong and binding the power of brain washing can be.

Truly frightening.

Kim...

"....The proof that they were was that whenever we fired on one of them, a search party arrived shortly afterward."³ It had become a cycle of disbelief. Isolated from the rest of the world, everyone appeared to be the enemy."

Sounds like making the wrong conclusions about events, filling in reality according to an unmerciful view. A trait common in...extreemists. Maybe extreemists is not the right word...terrorists....well not only. The world keeps on turning so don't get stuck in an unmerciful view of a moment, fear Him alone and hope for His mercy and move on while wishing for what is better(and that is with Him if you understand) The Merciful.

Otherwise you could find yourself hiding in some kind of jungle for 29 year without any true reason and killing inocents thinking they are the enemy.

War on Terror/War for Freedom are not motivated by defense of the US Constitution, peoples and nation?

Nico, didn't you inform this imposter that the link between terrorism and Eyerak has long been shot down - all across the globe.

I wonder when will this news reach the US.

The link between Iraq and terrorism. Shot down you say?

What is killing political opponents and having the military leaders so affraid that they rather not tell you the truth when it's bad out of fear of being killed?

What was all the support for Saddam at the start of this war(on TV) really out of fear of being killed by the secret service if they voiced a negative opinion of their opressor. but when their deffences got over run suddenly people came out trampling his pictures and cheering for their liberation.

The Saddam regime was nothing BUT terrorism....and i think it is a shame that instead of taking a stand against those who would love to take his place like Al Zarqawi and his likes, it seems people protract the situation by forgetting the real trouble makers and rather take in false information and dishonest opinions about those who brought Saddam down. I do not expect the Iraqi people to take that stand, because being in a society like that must takes it's toll on your moral health, and with death and political assasinations all around it is not easy for them to say "Zarqawi you are wrong, without you the Americans would be back home, and all this blood spilled over you would not be, so leave us alone and let us vote for our government, it can't be worse then Saddam or you." But for the free islamic and arab people to not spill a word on Al Zarqawi and people like him lusting for power through cowardly acts which they deem neccisary because they are weaker, and instead just be "fashionable" and tag along with anarchists and socialists against what they call the great opressor through dishonest opinions and twisted and twisted again information? i can not understand this. This only empowers people like Al Zarqawi and this causes more bloodshed.(nice going you o so peaceful people of the world). Maybe they should realize that if your weakness makes you resort to deliberate unjust acts, that means your whole cause is wrong. But this is hard to understand for someone who is blinded by the lust for power, so when are muslims going to take a stand against these kind of power lovers? and where were the muslims when Saddam killed his Kurdish neighbours? you did not hear muslims cry out then, except the kurds and muslims just looked at them and found Saddam more impressive because afterall he was the embodiment of Arab nationalism(what a crack up)...but when sanctions are put up...you hear some....and when the country is invaded and the tyrant removed you hear alot of them together with their anarchist and socialist (get over it) friends protest against really the removal of a tyrant and the fight against his supporters and those who wish to take his place. You can argue "no we are not against his removal, but against the US who put him there and supported him and now they are after the oil" but seriously even if it is true, so what? and the US being after the oil, even if this is so...ever heard of the thing called "war booty" it is something familiar to muslims, or do muslims think that they are the only ones intitled on taking war booty. Atleast they leave most of the women alone(good thing we are more civilized nowadays then lets say 300 years ago, 200, 100 years even) and free the country from an opressor.

So what is wrong here? Al Zarqawi is tollerated by muslims, Saddam is even tolerated but not the US. Why do muslims expect the US to be better in their actions then Saddam or Al Zarqawi(which in reality they are because imagine Al Zarqawi and Saddam having a military like the US), and scream high and low at their wrong doings but have understanding when it concerns.....is it because they are simply arabs? that is a filthy and disgusting form of racism, understanding wrong doings simply because of race. If this is not the case why then?

Is Al Zarqawi a freedom fighter according to you? if he is he must be one of the most stupid freedom fighters on the face of the earth, and it is amazing that he actually has people under him, i can only wonder what level of understanding they are on, because it is him and his people that keep the US military from leaving. So in reality he is an anti freedom fighter. Why can't they just back off? why do they feel such a need to be in power? are they forbidden from practising their faith if they have any under the new government?

And Saddam....well i guess he was better then the new iraqi government.....get real ok?

This white wash would have shone well only if your whiter than white admins sacked their tyrant when he was in full employment. Now, it's just an after thought - mere excuse.

We are now ready with open eyes, we will see how big an empire you make!

Bismillah,

B, I don't agree that believing that other methods of warfare than killing millions of people at a time is an immature view of warfare and the world.  It is one that shows we believe in a Merciful Allah, who has all the power and the glory, and has clearly told us not to kill non-combatants.  Those who perpetrate mass killings are wrong and Allah, SWT, will decide what to do with them. (And that inlcludes suicide bombers killing children, old people, any non-combatants.)

Community,  did you forget that our government supported and supplied Saddam Hussein and OBL?  So because of this we are actually almost completely responsible for the difficulties in Iraq and Afghanistan.  You want oppressed and terrified people to do what with Al-Zarqawi?  People who are against him are afraid for their lives and the lives of their families.  Do you think it's easy for people to get to him and people like him?  No, it's not! 

I'm sure many Iraqis and Afghanis would like to see the leaders of suicide bombers out of their countries.  It's just not as easy as you make it seem.

""Community,  did you forget that our government supported and supplied Saddam Hussein and OBL?  So because of this we are actually almost completely responsible for the difficulties in Iraq and Afghanistan. ""

Yeah, it seems everytime the US trusts someone arabic or muslim they turn around and try stab the US in the back, how could the US know Osama first all lovely and rubbing shoulders with the US and fighting on the same side against Communism turns around like that and starts his crazed rampage? Saddam...says alot about Iraq if they could not see any other strong partner against communism in Iraq except a man would turn out to be a mad man. Wether these were deliberate calculations of these 2 figures turning out like this or if it was for the sake of a greater cause or it was just a miscalculation on the part of US observers as to what would be in their best interest and the best interest of the region i leave in the middle.

"You want oppressed and terrified people to do what with Al-Zarqawi?  People who are against him are afraid for their lives and the lives of their families.  Do you think it's easy for people to get to him and people like him?  No, it's not!"

The people of Iraq are indeed opressed by these kind of figures, so it is of utmost importance that free muslims in the west fight against these opressors. Allah asks us this in the koran:

4:75 And what is it with ye that ye fight not in the way of Allah and of those who,made weak, are ill-treated (and oppressed)?- Men, women, and children, whose call (cry) is: "Our Lord! Rescue us from this town, whose people are oppressors; and raise for us from thee one who will protect; and raise for us from thee one who will help!"

The reality is that we see alot of problems with coalition forces and locals on the ground, the situation would be much better and things would go alot smoother if there were more muslims in the coalition forces who could speak arabic, things could go alot better, less frustration less misunderstanding and less civilian casualties. But it seems muslims in the west on the greater part only know how to complain about the opressed people of Iraq but LOVE the idea of not being able to do anything about it, well the reality is they CAN do something about it, and that is being there and to fight against their opressors.

well you might want to put some glasses on, cause it might get too bright for you.

Nothing can be too bright for a man of baseerat. You would never find me as dazed as yourself. I hold a clear vision. Touts can never claim that. 

The link between Iraq and terrorism. Shot down you say?

If you do not know that I am talking about Iraq as a threat to your masters then either you are seriously imapred in intelligence or you are an outright cheat.

"Nothing can be too bright for a man of baseerat. You would never find me as dazed as yourself. I hold a clear vision. Touts can never claim that."

I guess from this i should conclude that it is pointless to talk to you since you actually think you hold a clear vision. It must be because you are a leader of a group whom you have been teaching all this time with your ideas and views which they devoured like granma's home backed cookies because it was against the US and the west, yeah anger, wonderful to use to gain following but what then? and now you are stuck because if you change your views you will have to explain it to your followers and they might walk away from you since a good view of the US means understanding and losing that anger, and this is hard to find in groups following a leader these days.(the true group, is waiting for their leader and are waiting till they are called upon and anger does not work for them) But really leaders will have no power to save their following in the hereafter, especially when they were wrong, and thus their followers were wrong.

Auzubillahi minash shaitan ir rajeem,

Bismillah ir rahman ir rahim,

b95000 wrote: How do you overcome tyrants, dictators and mass murderers - especially those in charge of the apparatus of a nation?  This is no easy question and no easy task.  The UN has been tasked, in part, with this for years....how have they done?  Why should the US be blamed for every tryrant and evil and ill in the world.

It seems Divinity has charged US with bringing down the tyrants in various parts of the wrold, thru murder of innocents. This costs billions of dollars, a lot of unrest in the nation, bad PR in the outside world, and the citizens go pleading not to blame their nation for it. Unfortunately you failed to see the bottom line in my post ... which was ... the US did not change its occupation even after 60 (and not just 40+) years of bombarding Hiroshima and Nagasaki, she continues to perform this duty so deligently, but the world does not see her as a friend - the population is getting poorer and poorer every day. As for Japan, she is in general a friend, there is development, perfect economy, prosperiety and happiness within the society.

So you keep wondering what would have happened if you did not do it this way and that way in Japan ... and keep attacking other poor populations of the world, while Japan develops her business relations with everyone.

Peace.

Auzubillahi minash shaitan ir rajeem,

Bismillah ir rahman ir rahim,

b95000 wrote: By the way, I'm not 'pleading' with anyone, other than to appeal to the facts and to reality..

Facts and reality are not understood by the rest of the world as Americans present it.

Was there any population, in any part of the world that deemed it fit for Iraq to be attacked?

NO!. And this is for a fact a reality!

b95000 wrote: "the US did not change its occupation even after 60...she continues to perform this duty so deligently...keep attacking other poor popultations..." Please clarify this rhetoric Nausheen with some more specificity if you will...thanks..

Good response. Explains pretty much why some people refuse to answer your Qs.

Peace,

N.

Bismillah,

Is the world better off with millions of Japanese citizens dead, to the original point?  No.  That's a definite no.

How are the Iraqis since SHussein has been taken out?  They don't seem very well.  It is not the point to me because the point to me is that the United States should never have given such an evil person money and weapons et cetera all those years just because we were against Iran.  America has supported the wrong people too often and had them show their evil ways when they came to power.  Central America, Africa, the Middle East...  We seem to have done okay in WWII, but after that we are messing up really bad with supporting the wrong elements with money and guns.  (That includes Israel in my opinion.)

I am just amazed. You can come up with some good words too. You want peace and security, start with your own corner first, we will join you in cleaning ours.

This is a Khan's word.

Auzubillahi minash shaitan ir rajeem,

Bismillah ir rahman ir rahim,

herjihad wrote: Bismillah, Is the world better off with millions of Japanese citizens dead, to the original point?  No.  That's a definite no. How are the Iraqis since SHussein has been taken out?  They don't seem very well.  It is not the point to me because the point to me is that the United States should never have given such an evil person money and weapons et cetera all those years just because we were against Iran.  America has supported the wrong people too often and had them show their evil ways when they came to power.  Central America, Africa, the Middle East...  We seem to have done okay in WWII, but after that we are messing up really bad with supporting the wrong elements with money and guns.  (That includes Israel in my opinion.)

Ditto.

Auzubillahi minash shaitan ir rajeem,

Bismillah ir rahman ir rahim,

b95000 wrote: B: Americans present facts and reality in a hundred ways - like a kaleidiscope - and if you factor in the peoples of the world there are a thousand ways or more...so your point is obvious...people are self focused and tribal or nationalistic...this is not news Nausheen.

Aah, so the rest of us are tribal and nationalistic. Can you tell us how old is the "civilization" of America? Perhaps according to you the oldest civilization of the world started in America!

And if you are saying Americans are not nationalisitc, it is surely news to me. - A news coming from western media, that should not be trusted at all.

b95000 wrote: You're wrong, the UN and reps were ready to oppose Saddam with force as they deemed it necessary.  That day was coming sooner or later.

But the Americans could not have patience ...

The best thing would be to penalized  america heavily for placing Saddam in position of power in the first place.

b95000 wrote: Here's the point now Nausheen - is the world better off without Saddam and with a free Iraq?

NO

b95000 wrote: Huh, so you're not willing to give specifics...yeah, great answer... Peace..

What I said was a no brainer. So sorry, I do not further discussions when they start to get boring.

Peace,

N

Bismillah,

B, I can see that you are a person who hates warfare by wanting to make plowshares out of guns!  That's wonderful! 

I see people pointing the finger at the so-called west for everything, but I contend that it is the devil's fault, and that all of us humans need to work together against evil. 

It is vital that we accept responsibility individually for wrongs we commit and as the groups that we are divided into.  I vote as an American because I haven't received my Earthling passport just yet.  So I take part of the responsibility for bombing all of those innocent people in Japan.  I apologize and encourage people in America not to do such a thing again. 

In my thread about George Galloway I question what the situation in Iraq is really like and refer to his departure from the Green Zone opinions to the people deep inside Iraq whom he spoke to.  Really, I don't know if the Iraqis are better or worse off.  I think they are worse, but only they can tell us that, and I certainly don't believe the news stories.  And different people there will think differently, but we are talking about most people, right?

I hear stories from there that others don't because of a connection I have of someone there.  These stories merely confirm to me that the media is not getting the information to us that we need to understand the situation in Iraq.

It is the Japanese who need to be concerned with what they did to other people and make amends even for their war crimes.  Just as each person and group needs to do the same with our consciousnesses, so do they.  Most people here on this forum hate what the Japanese did too, but many of us in the world think that the bombs should not have been dropped.

Should have beens are easy.  Judgements in retrospect are easy.  Elect me president, and I will show you what I would do as such!  But seriously, as a voter I will always vote against the Bushes and Kerrys.  They are just rich, privileged brats that don't understand suffering, and therefore can't properly lead.  Abe Lincolon shines as an example of a great American president.  Now, you might say:  What would Abe have done in a similar situation about the bomb?  Well, just like with me or anyone else, should have beens and would have dones are easy to discuss, but not relevant because we really don't know a lot of the time what decsion anyone would or will make until we are in a situation. 

I am sure I wouldn't have dropped such devastation on civilians.

b95000 wrote: B: You said one page up in this forum that America "keep(s) attacking other poor populations of the world" and I've simply asked that you give us some specifics...suddenly that's boring?  I rather think you should provide proof for your charge.  But you're the one making the charge and asking us to believe it..

I do not need to provide any proof. The number of civilians you guys have been killing is no secret. The discussion is not suddenly boring, but perpetually boring, because for you only when 4000 americans were killed they were individuals, rest all need proofs, specifics etc, and if we go in further details the discussion turns back into a circle for why there was war, and all this is collateral damage etc etc etc.

You have been here for not more than 4 months, and I have been on this forum for more than 4 years. This is not the first time an american is trying to ignore that civilian deaths are not just numbers in newpapers and news bulletins, but real human beings!  That civilian deaths are your responisbilty! That this is a price they pay for your wars!

The japanese have said sorry to the chinese and the Koreans, and citizens started flying back across broders after 50+ years. I think they should do the same for the pearl harbour incident, but I have talked to many many japanese, they are not smart alecs. They are humble and accept the fault of Japan in world war ... They behave civil. I have met koreans and Thai ppl in Japan, and seen bitterness in their eyes and voices against the Japanese. War does that, to deny people the right to it, or to deny it is the responsibility of the one who caused pain, is cruel in plain common man's language.

Therefore talking about "this is war"  and "this is the reason why we have war" can be a good passtime for you, but there are people dying WHO SHOULD NOT BE DYING.

Iraqis are better, and Afghanis are better ..... this is what you think, but the reality is none is better, nor is america after the attacks. This you will understand 10 years down the road. The attack on Afghanistan was the beginning to end of the super power of America. This is not debatable now, because your super power has not ended yet. Come back and debate after 10 years.

Peace,

N

Auzubillahi minash shaitan ir rajeem,

Bismillah ir rahman ir rahim,

Koizumi repeats apology


By KANAKO TAKAHARA
Staff writer

Marking the 60th anniversary of the end of World War II, Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi expressed regret Monday for Japan's past deeds against its Asian neighbors and vowed to make sure they never happen again.

"Our country caused damage and pain to many countries, especially the people of Asia, during the war," Koizumi said in a speech at the annual ceremony held at Nippon Budokan hall in Chiyoda Ward, Tokyo. "I profoundly pray for the souls of the war dead and the victims of war both at home and abroad."

The prime minister also pledged to make further efforts to boost friendly relationships with other nations and contribute to global peace and prosperity.  http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/getarticle.pl5?nn20050816a1.htm - more...

not suddenly boring, but perpetually boring,

Nausheen, I admire your patience with our zig zag poster. you never know where he is coming from or going. Don't ever mention "day" to him. He will ask you to produce proof that day exists or why should it exist!!

"blood thirsty, gun totting, control freak American idiots." Thanks for reminding me that one. By the way, do you realise what percentage of the global population would agree with me. Please, tell me why?

Let's discuss this single aspect as two equal humans. For a few minutes I will forget that the US is constantly invading and occupying Muslim lands. I promise, I will stop honouring them with the titles any aggressor deserves in my particular faith.

But no humanitarian angle trash, no comparing how much better you all are than Saddam or Talibaan, please. Just facts.

B: . . . when you clearly have called me and my countrymen and women all kinds of perverse invectives.

Tell us, please, what should the pro-humans call Americans in their state of oil lust and selling democracy with the largest arsenal of guns in the world?

Why should anyone mind if you keep pleasing (more like deluding) yourself about the US image? Why would I be bothered by people living with blinkers of their own making as long as they do not occupy my watan?

to prove some agenda driven point about GWB.. Why would anyone, not just I, ever have to prove any points about poor GWB? Good luck! He is doing to the US what her worst enemies only ever dreamt of.

I have no idea how old you are, but all of us grow up to the reality that when it comes to "mass contact" ONLY PUBLIC PERCEPTION HOLDS. As many lines you waste certain simple laws of Nature do not change.

Power has, is and will be turned over. Where? Hallucination? Or, you just takes us all to be idiots? And, to be precise of your kind? Sorry, I didn't know you meant on paper and for home market progress spinning.

Good luck with your illusion that people vote on their own in our cultures. The chief said "vote" and the Americans will go away - they voted. You can please yourself by living in a typical American Fools' paradise as if they voted to legitimise your illegal war.

Your national stupidity is what creates OBLs.

Not Qur'an or the Muslims.

Nice knowing you B59000. I wish you were worth talking to, I have other more important things to do.

Bismillah,

Whisper, it is the human condition that makes us this way.  When you say national stupidity and things like that, I'm sure you don't mean me, but still...  I had some small beliefs about politics in the world as a girl, but these ideas were guided by the prevailing culture around me.  I didn't have a chance to get out of the box, let alone think outside of it.  I am curious, so when I met people who looked at things differently than me, I thought about it.  This thinking led to realizations of truths that were there all along, but spun into nothingness.

But this happens in Muslim countries and other countries as well.  Who knows "The Truth"?  We must all search for it and share it when we find it.  I know you don't mean to put down millions of people just for the sake of it.  Educate everyone that you can, and leave off this angry arguing.

People like Bruce might come around to truths they haven't given a chance before if presented in the right light.  Like the fact that I am not being stubborn when I say that I truly believe that the American government should not have given SHussein or OBL money and guns and ... we never should have bombed Japan.  But I don't believe in weapons of mass destruction of any kind.  Regular bombs cause too much devastation to be used!

I know you don't mean to put down millions of people just for the sake of it.  Educate everyone that you can, and leave off this angry arguing.

Sister Herjihad, a noble thought provoking post. I have some of my best friends in the US. Till 2004 my head offices were in Detroit, we moved to Toronto - because our customers started to avoid dealing with us as an American company.

Americans are wondeful people. But hardened Neo Con war justifiers are a totally different inhuman lot. They have just the ONE idea - exactly like any extremists.

Thank goodness I may only be inconsistant but not some outright lying war criminal.

I never "fashion" myself as anything. I leave it to half-witted Amreekis to try and design the world to fit them and the Israelis - by the only thing they have - guns.

'Nothing promotes evil more than when good men do nothing.'
Absolutely right! It's far worse when "good men" only critcise others without looking at their own clans' ailments.

Whisper wrote: 'Nothing promotes evil more than when good men do nothing.' Absolutely right! It's far worse when "good men" only critcise others without looking at their own clans' ailments.

Darn tootin...take your advice man!  And I'll take mine..

Anyone who believes that centuries of traditions can be changed by better guns, bombs plus and election or two is nothing less than an utter idiot.

Somehow whole of the US has been brainwashed to believe that.

So, what shall I call thee, Sire?

It's the hardest for idiots to diagnose their own national ailments, yet I will put it in different words for your ease: Those who believe that a huge arse nal and an election or two can change deeper cultures with centuries of noble traditions are absolute idiots.

We love and look forward to our future. Our future with our own children, in our own land and with our own la ilaha il Allah.

Our people have rejected the MacFuture being forced upon us through the barrel of a gun. You can keep your gaad of Market Forces and other vulgarities for your own self.

Good luck, for your Petrol-less future ahead.