layers of Atmosphere and Quran
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Topic: layers of Atmosphere and Quran
Posted By: rememberallah
Subject: layers of Atmosphere and Quran
Date Posted: 22 November 2010 at 11:26pm
"it is he who created everything on the earth for you and then deircted his attention upto heaven and arranged it into 7 REGULAR HEAVENS. He has kowledge af all things"
-Quran {2:29}
this verse was revealed 1400 yrs ago and we all know the kind of scientific development existed then in that age and nobody at that time could have told such big a truth which we came to know in space age, for there are no visible divisions in the sky, at that time even the thought was impossible!!!!!
it is in today�s times after "PENETRATING THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH" {55:33} ie going in space age, that we know that there are 7 layers in atmosphere
1 troposphere layer
2 stratosphere layer
3 ozone layer
4 mesosphere layer
5 thermosphere layer
6 ionosphere layer
7 exosphere layer
truly we cant deny the verse when it says in the end "He has knowledge of all things".
{Request - its a request to Quran translators to translate the 2 Arabic words "jannat" and "samawaat" differently as they are different, jannat meaning paradise and samawaat meaning sky, they should not use the word heaven, for any of the two as this creates obvious confusion in the mind of the reader. True heaven is a word with dual meaning and can be appplied to both meanings but in the end we should make things more clear and use more specific words.}
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The whole world is like Hazrat Umar but no one is like his sister and brother in law.
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Replies:
Posted By: schmikbob
Date Posted: 27 November 2010 at 9:11am
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rememberallah, when you try to force a square peg into a round hole you usually get a mess and that is exactly what you have done here. You are trying to stuff modern science into the Quran and it may fit but you are trying too hard. For one thing the layers you list make a mess of the last 80 years of atmospheric science. There are 5 atmospheric layers. The ionosphere and ozone layers are subsets of other layers. If you try hard enough you can actually subdivide the 5 primary layers down into any number of subsets such that you could arrive at a number of layers anywhere between 5 and 20 or so sublayers.
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Posted By: rememberallah
Date Posted: 27 November 2010 at 1:23pm
my brother schmikbob
my brother i am not arguing but i see no mess, modern science ie your square peg is smaller than the Quran the round hole which gave birth to the educational zeal that resulted in development of modern science. today we muslims have left it but if we return there will be a scientist in every house.
i don;t think any atmospheric scientist will look at it and hold his head and say "O my God who has written this" so i have not at all made mes of last 80 yrs of research.
point is not that there are layers or sublayers point is can you deny these are the most recognised layers. point is "layers" can you deny ozone is not a layer.
in the end in Arabic 7 or 70 does not neccesarily mean 7 or 79 it could mean many more.
forget everything can you tell by your naked eye if there are layers in sky ?? calculating earth's circumference a 2000 yrs ago was easier but telling this even 100 yrs ago was impossible; just impossible. But the claim of Quran there are layers in sky and it being proven when we have "penetrated skies" as prophecised in {55:33} initself is a miracle.
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The whole world is like Hazrat Umar but no one is like his sister and brother in law.
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Posted By: schmikbob
Date Posted: 28 November 2010 at 8:44am
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rememberallah, you just said "in Arabic 7 or 70 does not neccesarily mean 7 or 79 it could mean many more" yet two posts ago you attached great meaning to "7 REGULAR HEAVENS". You have also tried to make "heavens" substitute for "layers". Once again, I have no problem with your interpreting the Quran. Every Islamic scholar will do that to some degree. However only recently are Islamic scholars trying to derive scientific information from the same book. I am not saying that the Quran is not compatible with science but it certainly does not predict or predate scientific discoveries of the last 200 years.
By the way, Christianity also went down this road. They stopped attempting it because it caused ridicule and drove people away from their ranks.
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Posted By: rememberallah
Date Posted: 30 November 2010 at 10:28am
@ schmikbob - you said - However only recently are Islamic scholars trying to derive scientific information from the same book.
my reply - my brother peace be on you, i tell you of a recent thing too, it is recently only that man went into space and Quran predicted in {55:33} - "penetrate into regions of skies and earth, you will not be able to penetrate but without authority, then which of the verses of your lord will you deny?"
according to Quran the going of man into skies will be an age that the verses of Quran will come to full bloom when they won't be able to be denied.
my brother give thought - you said that "I am not saying that the Quran is not compatible with science". my brother why is it that Quran that speaks on so many things on which so much unimaginable scientific research has been done in last 200 yrs is compatible??? how could Quran even claim there are layers in atmosphere. n btw to man of 7th century there was one heaven above their head, Quran claimed there are 7 above you and not one, this intself is a thing to be wondered upon.
heaven is not equal to paradise in translations of Quran, it refers to skies as the word used is samawat, it is translation of word jannat which means paradise. muslim scholars are attempting it but they are not being ridiculed highest scientists when are being presented verses of Quran are commenting "these words can not come from 1400 yrs ago except if it is indeed the word of God"
eg see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjZElaBLfa0
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The whole world is like Hazrat Umar but no one is like his sister and brother in law.
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Posted By: schmikbob
Date Posted: 30 November 2010 at 9:15pm
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rememberallah, I will say this one more time. If you think Muhammed was the first person and the Quran the first book to use the "7 heavens" or "7 regular heavens" or the "7 anything" reference you are sadly mistaken. The magic number seven and the reference to 7 heavens had been around for centuries prior to Muhammed. It is strange that only in the last century have certain Muslim scholars (not all mind you because some know better) tried to insert their own scientific interpretation onto verses that have been defined and explained ad infinitum without science.
Also, you are associating compatibility with science as some sort of divine inspiration when in fact a great many ancient books are compatible with science and I am reasonably certain you would not associate them with divine inspiration.
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Posted By: rememberallah
Date Posted: 02 December 2010 at 6:08am
brother schmikbob nowhere, ever did anyone claim there are 7 heavens. show me. i think you are also confused about word heaven
heaven is not equal to paradise in translations of Quran, it refers to
skies as the arabic word used is "samawat" in Quran, it is translation of word jannat
which means paradise.
muslim scholars are attempting it {quran and science}but they are
not being ridiculed, as even highest scientists when are being presented verses
of Quran are commenting "these words can not come from 1400 yrs ago
except if it is indeed the word of God"
eg see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjZElaBLfa0
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The whole world is like Hazrat Umar but no one is like his sister and brother in law.
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Posted By: schmikbob
Date Posted: 02 December 2010 at 9:00pm
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I am sorry rememberallah, I do not understand this phrase "they are not being ridiculed highest scientists when are being presented verses of Quran are commenting "these words can not come from 1400 yrs ago except if it is indeed the word of God"
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Posted By: rememberallah
Date Posted: 04 December 2010 at 6:25am
brother i have corrected my post. sorry.
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The whole world is like Hazrat Umar but no one is like his sister and brother in law.
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Posted By: Matt Browne
Date Posted: 05 December 2010 at 9:07am
The Bible contains myths, parables, advice, wisdom and some historical records. For the Quran it's similar, although the historical part is larger. The 7 heavens is from the night journey which was a spiritual journey. The Prophet did not physically board some vessel to fly to heaven.
Here's a great quote from Michael Shermer:
Myths are about the human struggle to deal with the great passages of time and life�birth, death, marriage, the transitions from childhood to adulthood to old age. They meet a need in the psychological or spiritual nature of humans that has absolutely nothing to do with science. To try to turn a myth into a science, or a science into a myth, is an insult to myths, an insult to religion, and an insult to science.
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A religion that's intolerant of other religions can't be the world's best religion --Abdel Samad
Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people--Eleanor Roosevelt
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Posted By: rememberallah
Date Posted: 08 December 2010 at 12:27am
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@ matt -
my brother i would not comment on bible, the 7 heavens of night journey cant be commented upon as kuran has concept of multiverse ie multiple universes, and kuran based on sentence building reveals the talk is of atmosphere or universe or multiple universes.
kurn is not a science text book nor is it a mythbook, i say if it is a book of God, eerything is possible for it but myth.
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The whole world is like Hazrat Umar but no one is like his sister and brother in law.
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Posted By: schmikbob
Date Posted: 09 December 2010 at 7:29am
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rememberallah, I find it odd that you write " kuran based on sentence building reveals the talk is of atmosphere or universe or multiple universes". The "or, or, or" reveals to me that even you believe these verses could mean more than one thing even though you are insistent that they mean only what you say they mean. Perhaps you could refer me to one of the hadiths that talks about these verses meaning what you say they mean. (Pease don't refer me to another of the ridiculous web sites that try to find scientific or numerological miracles in the Quran. I have been to them and they bore me.)
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Posted By: rememberallah
Date Posted: 09 December 2010 at 11:12am
schmikbob my brother i shared my personal research in which i analysed more than 200 verses which have earth {ard} and heaven/sky {samawat} in them, and it at this time cant be put here as it will needs be typed.
the "or" doesnt refer to many meanings, and you know it, i dont know why you dont think and just comment whatever comes to your mind, my brother what comes to your mind first analyse it, check it cross check it and then say, for the sentence "this plane is going to US or UK" doesnt mean that it is going to both the places but it means it is going to one. if you would analyse what you say you would had never said what you said.
please don't mind i don't say this in attitude of argument but in attitude of making discussions real and not away from our nature.
you say i believe that it has many meanings but only what i say is right, my brother i will give you a parable, "this plane takes off and crosses the atlantic to west" "this plane takes off and crosses the alps to east" "this plane takes off and crosses the pacific to west". my brother the one who doesnt have analyses and doesnt understand will say all planes are going to one place as all planes "take off" from runway, they all are on one runway, but for one who posseses knowledge and understanding will know the first plane takes off from europe and is going to america, the second plane takes off from europe and is going to asia, the third plane takes off from japan and is going to US.
brother you dont know geography of Quran, for you i wont say a thing which is not right when i know the geography of Quran, the teacher never says the world is flat if the student believes it, but fails the student if he writes so in the exam.
i dont mean i am teacher and you are student, you can be my teacher and i can be yours, everyone teaches everyone something. why dont you collect all the verses and try to understand the sentence building my brother from Adam and Eve.
peace be on you.
may God give you paradise.
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The whole world is like Hazrat Umar but no one is like his sister and brother in law.
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Posted By: schmikbob
Date Posted: 13 December 2010 at 9:06pm
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rememberallah, since you are intent on this line of what I will very loosely call reasoning, can you tell me what you make of the reference to the seven earths in the Quran?
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Posted By: rememberallah
Date Posted: 14 December 2010 at 12:53pm
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i will surely give you brother.
God said he created adam and said "go ye down to earth" when he sinned in paradise. however God said earlier "I am about to place a khalifa on earth".
now does it mean that God already had planned to put us on this earth and that sin was only an excuse??
no, tell me what is earth - it has rivers, mountains, trees, animals, fruits, vegetation etc.
all this even paradise had, and thus when God said i am about to place a khalifa on earth, he didnt mean this earth, but the earth called paradise.
however if you trying to fit seven earths with seven skies, i will say it does fit and it doesnt fit....the criteria being for atmosphere is "earth and heavens" {ie earth put before heavens in sentence building, referring to earth's skies} & not "heavens and earth" which refer to Universe, or multiple universe based on sentence construction of kuran.
so 7 earths refer to 7 multiple universes.
if any more kuestions please ask.
may God guide all.
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The whole world is like Hazrat Umar but no one is like his sister and brother in law.
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Posted By: schmikbob
Date Posted: 14 December 2010 at 8:31pm
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OK, so you now have gotten from seven earths to seven multiple universes. What do you then make of seven universes. Is this a scientific statement, a statement that is compatible with science, simply a metaphoric statement, or some combination of the above?
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Posted By: rememberallah
Date Posted: 15 December 2010 at 10:58pm
science will never be able to get to know if there are multiple universes, though no scientist.....i repeat, no scientist can deny the probability of multiple universes. if your astronomy and research is in place you would be knowing it. as for me i believe like many scientists that there are multiple universes as Quran, a book revealed by maker of everything there, speaks of it.
dont try to put words in my mouth asking me that is it a scientific statement? i dont say it is this or that, i say what it is, it is a reply to your question in previous post.
i believe there are multiple universes like many scientists as Quran points at it. just as i believe everyliving thing is made of water as Quran points at it, just as i believe that everything in universe was once joined as Quran points at it, just as i believe that our atmosphere has layers as Quran points at it, and the list goes on and on.
the horse can be taken to the grass but not forced to eat, its God who puts the hunger, please do charity so that you might be guided my brother.
peace be on you.
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The whole world is like Hazrat Umar but no one is like his sister and brother in law.
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