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al Qaeda slaughters Muslims

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Topic: al Qaeda slaughters Muslims
Posted By: b95000
Subject: al Qaeda slaughters Muslims
Date Posted: 27 July 2005 at 10:12am
Oh, the holy al Qaeda warriors, the killers of children and the shooters in the back or innocents...those who blow innocent families into smitherines and worship death as they claim to serve Allah [Allah Akbar - Jehovah Nissi]...

http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2005/7/28/worldupdates/2005-07-27T213700Z_01_NOOTR_RTRJONC_0_-210838-1&sec=Worldupdates - Now they slit the throats of fellow Muslims. ..they are cowards and they have no humanity or godliness...their holiness is to ally themselves with death and evil.




-------------
Bruce
Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.



Replies:
Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 28 July 2005 at 1:48am

Great! This must be giving a much bigger psychological fix to your deep rooted Ethno-phobia I have discussed in some other section. You are sicker than your analysis showed.

This is exactly the world we create when we belittle anything that does not suit our purpose. Let's hail the Great American Century project.

Shall we salute you mein Fuhrer or some Richard Perle?



Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 28 July 2005 at 1:52am

Sorry, forgot to ask, how much are you paid a week to be on this site? Is it with perks like for some other agents? Or just plain "copy and paste" basic rate contract?



Posted By: jibreel
Date Posted: 28 July 2005 at 2:53am
Originally posted by b95000 b95000 wrote:

Oh, the holy al Qaeda warriors, the killers of children
and the
shooters in the back or innocents...those who blow innocent families
into smitherines and worship death as they claim to serve Allah [Allah
Akbar - Jehovah Nissi]...

http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2005/7/28/
worldupdates/
2005-07-27T213700Z_01_NOOTR_RTRJONC_0_-210838-1&sec=Worldu
pdates
- Now they slit the throats of fellow Muslims. ..they are
cowards and they have no humanity or godliness...their holiness is to ally
themselves with death and evil.

2005-07-27T213700Z_01_NOOTR_RTRJONP_1_India-210838-1-pic0.jp g
">



Like Bush sais, they are HIS base, in arabic its his al quada, the u.S. owns
the name and the team., they work for the CIA., who goes around funding
killers to get rid of threats to there invested interests,. old story again.


Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 28 July 2005 at 7:20am

Jibreel, please, mind your business. I have many times asked you to be just a bit kind with deep rooted cases. Brother, they are unable to help their condition.

He is tasked just to talk about these things. It's a Full Time paid job for him - to be on this site.

Also to file Palestinian occupation alongwith some street kids from around the block or somewhere.

Brother leave the sick aside.



Posted By: b95000
Date Posted: 28 July 2005 at 1:49pm
Originally posted by Whisper Whisper wrote:

Sorry, forgot to ask, how much are you paid a week to be on this site? Is it with perks like for some other agents? Or just plain "copy and paste" basic rate contract?



I'm not being paid a dime to be here.  You're rude to suggest such Sasha...but it doesn't surprise me as you've been racist toward Americans, calling all 300 million 'stupid' and 'fools' - so what should I expect from you?

My post simply states that AQ is slaughtering other Muslims - even those diplomats that are trying to connect with Muslims in a predominantly Muslim country.  Isn't AQ ludicrous?  Instead of simply answering that in the affirmative - you somehow see fit to cast perjoratives on me...nice..


-------------
Bruce
Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.


Posted By: b95000
Date Posted: 28 July 2005 at 1:51pm
Originally posted by Whisper Whisper wrote:

Also to file Palestinian occupation alongwith some street kids from around the block or somewhere.


We can determine where Sasha's true heart is toward his fellow suffering humanity...very telling...


-------------
Bruce
Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.


Posted By: b95000
Date Posted: 28 July 2005 at 1:53pm
Originally posted by jibreel jibreel wrote:


Like Bush sais, they are HIS base, in arabic its his al quada, the u.S. owns
the name and the team., they work for the CIA., who goes around funding
killers to get rid of threats to there invested interests,. old story again.


Wow, jibreel, can you get a bit more conspiratorial and foggy - is it possible?  Of course you belittle the checks and balances of a democracy which you should understand a bit if you're living in Spain..


-------------
Bruce
Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.


Posted By: nico
Date Posted: 28 July 2005 at 2:20pm

From what I have been able to see from all three of you, all of you are fundamentally misunderstanding why Muslims are being killed by Al Q. You have to understand the ideology which these people follow. To them these people who they are killing aren't Muslims, but imposters of the faith. For instance to them a real Muslim would not help the "Crusader Kufr", a "real Muslim" wouldn't support Secularism, a "real Muslim" wouldn't support "apostate" regimes. To them a "real Muslim" would fight the Jihad against the "invading Crusaders", and push for Shari'a to be the law of the state. Ala you get the murders of these people who are (in the minds of Al Q) fighting against Islam i.e. Police, Diplomats from "apostate regimes", etc. That is why police are targeted in Iraq, that reason and because it they are a impedement to the war against the US as they have Iraqi sympathizies, killing the police happened in Egypt in the 90's, and I am certain in Algeria. Also its not a ridiculous conspiracy theory, Muslims have got to get rid of that vice...



Posted By: b95000
Date Posted: 28 July 2005 at 2:33pm
I understand this Nico.  However, those that do consider themselves Muslims - or the majority of the 1 billion Muslims - ought to be right worried about this, wouldn't you say?  Apparently anyone that even casts a glance at the West can be killed? (anyone that cooperates or collaborates in any way?)  Why don't we saw off OBLs head for using a Western satellite phone - or let's get Zarqawi to do it?  What a bunch of idiotic death cultism...kill everybody, they foam and drool...

As to conpiracy theories, I'm referring to jibreel's discussion of the supposed continuing alliance between the CIA, AQ and OBL...


-------------
Bruce
Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.


Posted By: icforumadmin
Date Posted: 28 July 2005 at 3:59pm

Peace,

A little bit warm here, please cool down. Please use the polite words, don't be rude and so on.

 



-------------
Best Regards & Peace,

Admin


Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 28 July 2005 at 10:59pm

Whatever verbology we use the simple fact will always remain that the US fathered Al-Qaeda and all other terrorists in the world - for their own agenda.

Plus, whereever Sasha's heart lies about your shameless and typical diversion to bring the plight of those global kids, the fact is that the US support for Palestinian occupation has given US the 9 / 11 broken nose that you can not now forget to insert in your posts, often.

The last and the saddest fact is you are unable to help your condition. We all know it by now. Good luck with your illusions



Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 29 July 2005 at 12:32am

We can determine where Sasha's true heart is toward his fellow suffering humanity...very telling...

Before you started pimping for customers in such entertaining street hawker style, you should have at least seen that all the punters on this site are not just Americans.

They can read posts and see that point at hand is not Sasha's concern for some "suffering humanity". It was and still remains clear and simple "the effects of US support for Israeli occupation of Palestine on the Muslim world"

Plus, how shamelessly some street hawker is trying to sell Palestinian killings in Rio and karachi street kids' wrapping.

Son, however you distort facts of life or hide from them the simple straight Laws of Life do not treat Americans to be more equal than the rest of humanity. Nothing other than these laws got you on 9/11.

Whatever smartass you become, nothing other than respecting the basic simple Laws of Life will ever save you from another 9/11.

But then of course if you could ever understand that you won't be an American. Thinking and understanding is unpatriotic, anywhere in the world, not just in the US.

You seem to be wasting all your time just on us. Do even the women in your town find you as repulsive? Or, is it a matter of some other deeper tastes?



Posted By: Duende
Date Posted: 29 July 2005 at 2:42am
Bruce, the problem for Muslims today is that Alqaida and other
fundamentalist groups actually make some sense. There are aspects
of their beliefs and aims (not their methods) which most muslims can
identify with and actually say, I agree. You see, there is rarely
anything in life which is straightforward and �black or white�. There
are many shades in between, and many opportunities to
misinterpret, misunderstand and mistake. In fact, most terrorist
groups of whatever political or religious colour have some points in
their ideology which even their opponents admit can be discussed. I
do not admire nor support any terrorist groups, neither do I support
nor admire those who engage them with violence. What point are you
trying to gain by showing us how Alqaida kill muslims? Do you
expect all participants in the forum to swoon with disbelief and
denounce this? These are the acts of terrorists. What do you expect,
some sort of unspoken code of decency? Unfortunately shooting in
the back and killing children are not exclusively terrorist practises,
pointing out these acts doesn�t make Alqaida appear any more
ghastly than we already know them to be. You are a profoundly
patriotic American who sincerely wants to show everybody (especially
muslims, why else are you participating so busily here,) how great
and good you think America is. I am afraid your efforts are wasted,
since lately the world has had the veil lifted from its eyes, and we
have seen how America flaunts international justice and plain LIED in
order to invade Iraq. I say there is nothing wrong with you being
profoundly patriotic, out of kindness. I have never found myself
feeling such a thing, it is impossible for me to equate my self and
identity with �nationhood�. I have never been subjected to any kind of
indoctrination as to national identity, in America this kind of
indoctrination begins at home. You may have noticed on this forum
that a sense of nationhood and patriotism are not Muslim traits.
Brotherhood and a more global sense of belonging to a community
are. Many people, both Muslims and non-Muslims think America�s
actions have largely contributed to the existence of fundamentalist
ideologies. That doesn�t mean we support terrorism, we just wish
America would stop intervening at this point in time. You are having
a hard time persuading people that America is the best democracy in
the world. It is impossible for you to gauge just how badly damaged
America�s image is outside its territory, not just across the Muslim
world. And no amount of reminders of past glories, denouncements
of current evil-doers, nor endorsements of democratic checks and
balances can help this now. We know the Bush administration tried to
rig the iraq elections. It is impossible for us to accept the mighty U.S
army and its �intelligence� could not find Osama Bin Laden (I have a
suspicion he�s alive and well and working in a Starbucks in Portland
�.) We suspect we have been consistently deceived as to the real
efficacy of said army and �intelligence�. And since the U.S
administration is so prone to deception, well what view can we form
of the rest of the nation?


Posted By: Colin
Date Posted: 29 July 2005 at 2:49am
Good post Duende.


Posted By: jibreel
Date Posted: 29 July 2005 at 3:19am
Originally posted by Duende Duende wrote:

Bruce, the problem for Muslims today is that Alqaida
and
other fundamentalist groups actually make some sense.

In fact, most terrorist groups of whatever political or religious colour
have some points in their ideology which even their opponents admit
can be discussed. I do not admire nor support any terrorist groups,
neither do I support nor admire those who engage them with violence.
And since the U.S administration is so prone to deception, well what
view can we form of the rest of the nation?


So why do they support the terrorists with the nukes instead?
or it is a language barrier for them and they can not tolerate a
understanding., very self deceiving and basically, hypocrisy

P.S.
i re-edited this because i confused it with another post here.


Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 29 July 2005 at 7:26am

Brother Jibreel, if you don't mind, may I ask you just one question; is English your first language?

If you read the post a bit carefully Bruce would have committed hirakiri after reading it.

I feel, you could not understand a mature Writers pen here.



Posted By: nico
Date Posted: 29 July 2005 at 9:22am

I understand this Nico. However, those that do consider themselves Muslims - or the majority of the 1 billion Muslims - ought to be right worried about this, wouldn't you say?

Most assuredly...

Apparently anyone that even casts a glance at the West can be killed?

Even worse, those who oppose their view of the religion is in their opinion "takfir" once they decleare someone "takfir" they can be killed. Thankfully a Fatwa was created by learned scholars in Jordan lately saying that no Muslim can ever be called "Takfir" thus the extremists have lost one of their greatest weapons of terror.

Why don't we saw off OBLs head for using a Western satellite phone - or let's get Zarqawi to do it? What a bunch of idiotic death cultism...kill everybody, they foam and drool..

Bc according to the ideology they follow it is ok to use Western goods,and technology as they know that if they don't they will not have a fighting chance. Western Tech is not against Islam, it is how it is used which is.

As to conpiracy theories, I'm referring to jibreel's discussion of the supposed continuing alliance between the CIA, AQ and OBL...

I was talking to her, she isn't wrong per se...she's only 20 years too late as her conspiracy theory existed in Afghanistan in the 80's. Muslims in general. Bleating these ridiculous conspiracy theories causes more problems then it solves as by ignoring the problems and blaming other for the faults of their own civilization they will NEVER fix their situation and they will live in. But I must say it would sound like a great spy novel.



Posted By: jibreel
Date Posted: 29 July 2005 at 10:18am
Originally posted by Whisper Whisper wrote:

<FONT face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"
color=#993300 size=3>Brother Jibreel, if you don't mind, may I ask you
just one question; is English your first language?


<FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#993300 size=3>If you read
the post a bit carefully Bruce would have committed hirakiri after reading
it.


<FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#993300 size=3>I feel, you
could not understand a mature Writers pen here.



Your correct whisper,

my fault of confusing that post with all the crazy other ones here by the
infidels.,

but no need to ask if english is my first language, when quoting here the
texts get sloppy to read at times., i left the text the way i see it above this
time as a example.

Peace


Posted By: Jenni
Date Posted: 29 July 2005 at 12:31pm
Whisper, come on, all Terrorists are an American Invention? Take some responsibility that some few Muslims do commit violent acts of terror. If they can pratice genital mutilation on thier daughters, kill thier sisters for honor by slitting thier throats, or gang rape a woman on tribal orders, than why wouldn't they blow up a bus or a shia mosque. As a Muslim I don't believe that all Muslims are so religious and angelic that they could never commit a terrorist act. This is not an east west issue, some muslims do not value an innocent life of another muslim any more than a wester force and that is the sad truth.(p.s. I believe most 98% of muslims are fairly good but the other 2% scare me!)

-------------
You cant be a good muslim if you are not decent and have a cold heart. Be a decent and kind person and care for women and children and the elderly.


Posted By: jibreel
Date Posted: 29 July 2005 at 1:28pm
Jenni,

Islam is a religion, as a religion is Judaism or Christianity,
All 3 faiths trace back to Abraham (PBUH), who existed before Hebrew
was ever spoken or written., and Abraham (PBUH) was not a Jew or
Christian, but a Muslim who bowed down like those who bow.

You can not judge a religion by the people, you can however judge a
devoted believer by there religion, but you have to first be a scholar or a
practitioner to do that and your are not., this comes off bias.

On the other hand, to be a american citizen does not have anything to do
with religion, like where as in Israel, you have to be Jewish and religion
gets exploited, even though the U.S. has some of the most radical hate
groups on the planet like the KKK, ex Nazis for the government., zionists
and who ever has the cash to live there as long as they abide by some
basic rules., which can be broken if you can afford to pressure those they
hate and blame for there countries problems.

So do not confuse Islam with other countries like Israel, you can be from
any faith and live in a islamic country.,also Muslims are from every part of
the globe ..

The U.S. adapted Islamic teachings, like the freedom of speech, equal
rights but yet has failed to use them in practice more then any other
western nation that has been influenced by Islam's solutions to peace in
society, respect for woman and arts & science for a few examples.

**But to get to the point, a Muslim is a person like anyone else but who
rather wants to submit to rules ALLAH (God) had promised mankind in
the Torah and the Qur'an., so we submit to these rules rather then our
desires.

Everyone is tempted by there desires, and everyone tastes sins which
bring sick consequences to a individuals soul and being., all religions
teach this.

**A muslim can not commit a violent act on his own, if he does he
submitted to his own desires and there are consequences., and most of
all, they could not then be Muslim in this case.

**HOWEVER, a muslim has fight only if attacked, or go to fight if there is
clear proof of tyranny and oppressors that come to attack another
nation., like the U.S. has in Iraq and Afghanistan, and worst off
(TYRANTS) who will stop at nothing for there self interests and kill others
anyway, THEN IT IS ALSO NOT MUSLIM TO STAND BY AND WATCH
MURDERS.

**This brings us to the point that if even Israel was attacked by the U.S.,
and Islam has proof that its all oppression, muslims would step in to
fight, and the same for the Christian Faith,
---> Islam prohibits attacks on believers PERIOD, and or especially
innocent people un armed, if this does not sound fare to you, then you
clearly have a problem with living amongst others in Peace., especially
when they where never a threat to you.

**So to finish this of, Islam does not call wars on anyone, but what do you
do if they come to you, your country, your house, your forums to spread
there own ideology without understanding Islam., and attack you or
others by killing, the killing of innocent peoples by the bombings the
U.S. have carried out in Afghanistan years before 9/11.?

**Bush did not stop 9/11 or a war, because the war already started before
9/11, the CIA (his DADDY) just never told you about it, and today they are
more afraid then you think about a revolution if the people really found
out how they have been exploited, not only U.S. citizens but innocent
lives lost everywhere over oil profits.

So there is always two sides to every story.
I can not tell you if this will stop because it already started and its
heading towards a bigger problem as G.W. Bush put it, like that "New
World Order" speech he gave a few times recently.

The "New World Order" was written by Hitler, as well as the "homeland
security gestapo system" that terrorized the Germans to actually believing
all the propaganda about the Jews, so ethnic cleansing is what Bush wants
people to believe little by little and we know how ignorant that ideology
is.

We already see police arresting black children like tat 9 year old girl on
video, Michael Jackson in court while the new Pope has a child abuse case
and a nazi past behind him., but what else is new from the U.S.
government, can you tell us who the CIA will kill next, even you are not
part of the government or benefit from the booty.


Posted By: b95000
Date Posted: 29 July 2005 at 1:48pm
**Bush did not stop 9/11
===================

What a bunch of bullpucky - with this sort of conspiratorial excess, why should we hear out your points Jibreel?


-------------
Bruce
Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.


Posted By: imran1976
Date Posted: 29 July 2005 at 2:36pm
Al Qaeda deny responsibility for killing the Egyptian ambassador and the two Algerian diplomats in Iraq!!!

Abu Musab group send its condolence to the Egyptian and Algerian nations and challenge anyone to produce a proof that they killed the diplomats!!

it's in Arabic:
http://www.alarabiya.net/Articles/2005/07/28/15365.htm - http://www.alarabiya.net/Articles/2005/07/28/15365.htm


Posted By: b95000
Date Posted: 29 July 2005 at 4:02pm
Originally posted by imran1976 imran1976 wrote:

Al Qaeda deny responsibility for killing the Egyptian ambassador and the two Algerian diplomats in Iraq!!!

Abu Musab group send its condolence to the Egyptian and Algerian nations and challenge anyone to produce a proof that they killed the diplomats!!

it's in Arabic:
http://www.alarabiya.net/Articles/2005/07/28/15365.htm -   Yeah, these people are going to transform the world into a better place...


-------------
Bruce
Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.


Posted By: Duende
Date Posted: 30 July 2005 at 2:30am
I would like to get people to think about something very simple, i.e
how we use language and how this influences the way we consider
things: If we must refer to "innocent victims" all the time, shouldn't
we also find some "guilty victims"? There are only victims. One can
remain a victim or one can become a survivor. Language like this
annoys me, like declaring how so-called Islamic terrorists are
attacking " our values and our way of life." Suddenly the leaders of
U.K/Egypt wherever the latest number of bombing victims has been,
are telling us the reasons for terrorist acts. This sinks into the public
perception and nobody bothers to think or question anymore: For
example WHY was the London underground/bus blown up? if we
allow our leaders to give us the answer, we shall never clear society
of the kinds of casual injustice we allow to exist alongside us.


Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 31 July 2005 at 3:37am

Whisper, come on, all Terrorists are an American Invention?

I know it's very difficult and extremely sad to look at our country's deeds. We are talking about the terrorists of here and now - the ones we are facing in 2005 - not about 1182 - 1785 or even 1922.

All the existing bunch was recruited, funded, supported and given the word "Jehaad" by the CIA in the 70s.

Two percent makes it 3,000,000,000 bad Pakistanis! I live in that country. (Your husband may recognise Model Town, Lahore?) I find this figure at least a hundred times more than the acceptable norm for that society. Could you please try reducing it a little?



Posted By: jibreel
Date Posted: 31 July 2005 at 9:22am
Salam Whisper

What time do you think satan's little helpers come back to work on
monday?, incase i loose track of there posts here?


Posted By: nico
Date Posted: 31 July 2005 at 10:17am

All the existing bunch was recruited, funded, supported and given the word "Jehaad" by the CIA in the 70s.

This is how we know you don't know what you are talking about, in the 70s the CIA wasn't even in the region. In the 70s the USSR didn't even invade Afghanistan until December 1979. How can ANYONE with a brain even begin to believe someone who is so overtly ignorant as yourself? I must laugh at you... To suggest "all" of the terrorists today, (the vast majority of whom were born  AFTER the 70's) is the epitome of willed ignorance, if you were a real Muslim you would know to use your Ilm a gift from God to see the truth and not blind rage.

Two percent makes it 3,000,000,000 bad Pakistanis! I live in that country.

Actually the ISI is known to be the most fundamentalist segement of the Gov't in Paksitan with large Islamist sympahtizes and supported the Taliban and helped members of Al Q get out of Afghanistan, you can't blame that on the US. You can't blame the US for General Zia's attempt at a Islamic society and radicalizing the gov't in the process, all you can blame the US for is tacit support of the regime.



Posted By: jibreel
Date Posted: 31 July 2005 at 1:43pm
nico,

The U.S. is pushing for a world war and has been for 25+ years, are you
aware of this?

Its part of a long term plan called the new world order.

So if you really listen to Bush and his speeches why don't you share
something on that with us?

So far ethnic cleansing is what it has been about and who ever is this sick
there is no doubt that hey will not only claim to chase terrorists but also
kill themselves and others with them., and i am not talking about people
giving there lives voluntarily, i am talking about the real WMOD, like the
ones in iraq recently that has been poisoning people with nuclear.

you decide, and do n ot be a coward, just say the truth, are you in favor
of the rich or the poor?


Posted By: Yusuf.
Date Posted: 31 July 2005 at 1:48pm

Originally posted by jibreel jibreel wrote:

Salam Whisper

What time do you think satan's little helpers come back to work on
monday?, incase i loose track of there posts here?

LOL



-------------
Yusuf


Posted By: Jenni
Date Posted: 31 July 2005 at 2:25pm
Whisper, can you do math? 2% of 160 million is about 3.1 million people.And I have been to Pakistan twice, and the 2% that scare me are not just the religiously intolerant folks, but the gangsters, drug addicts, tribal lords who order murders and rapes ect. I think that could add up to 2% of the country. The rest of the 98% are very good and that is a better % of good people than we have in America which is probably only 70%.

-------------
You cant be a good muslim if you are not decent and have a cold heart. Be a decent and kind person and care for women and children and the elderly.


Posted By: Yusuf.
Date Posted: 31 July 2005 at 2:32pm

Originally posted by Jenni Jenni wrote:

Whisper, can you do math? 2% of 160 million is about 3.1 million people.And I have been to Pakistan twice, and the 2% that scare me are not just the religiously intolerant folks, but the gangsters, drug addicts, tribal lords who order murders and rapes ect. I think that could add up to 2% of the country. The rest of the 98% are very good and that is a better % of good people than we have in America which is probably only 70%.

Drive around south central LA at night and I guarantee you that you will find an environment that makes the worst Pakistani neighborhoods seem quite safe.

It's amazing the Americans are so ready to point the finger at other nations' shortcomings while their own citizens are subjected to such horrible conditions.



-------------
Yusuf


Posted By: Jenni
Date Posted: 31 July 2005 at 4:50pm
Yusuf-I am married to a Pakstani, I have been to Pakistan, and I am Muslim. Did you read my post?? My husband would probably say more than 2% of the population is dangerous and he is from there. And I said about 30% of Americans are dangerous for one reason or another. So read my post carefully before you comment please.

-------------
You cant be a good muslim if you are not decent and have a cold heart. Be a decent and kind person and care for women and children and the elderly.


Posted By: Yusuf.
Date Posted: 31 July 2005 at 5:05pm
I read your post, Jenni, and re read it just now, and with all due respect fail to understand how I offended you. I certainly did not intend to, but only to point out that America has extreme problems with violence that they do not address, while accusing other nations of failing to deal with their problems.

-------------
Yusuf


Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 01 August 2005 at 9:36am
I agree and respect your point, Jenni. This situation would not have been there if that country was allowed to develop institutions instead of being dictated by short fuse / short sighted army men for all these years. If army rule is such a good thing why not appy it in the US?


Posted By: nico
Date Posted: 01 August 2005 at 11:25am

The U.S. is pushing for a world war and has been for 25+ years, are you
aware of this? Its part of a long term plan called the new world order

.
You mean the PNAC? I mean if your going to talk about this, at least use the right terminology.

http://www.newamericancentury.org/

I am well aware of the neo-conservatives and their plans for a new American century. To me the neo-conservatives in the US and the Islamic extremists in your world are the same people just believing in different things. Both sides Wahhab-Qutbist-Al Qaeda Jihahi's and Neo-Conservatives want to make the world in their own vision, one to impose American liberalism on the world and the other to impose their version of Shari'a on the world or at least the Ummah. This is we call "co-dependance" as both sides need each other to live, it is no irony that in the 80's the Islamists and the Neo-Cons were working together to rid the world of the USSR, now they are fighting against each other. I hate them both, when I hear people like Whisper and his conspiracy theories I realize how easy it really is to fool oneself.


you decide, and do n ot be a coward, just say the truth, are you in favor
of the rich or the poor?

Who do you think you are telling me choose? Honestly get over yourself, I know more about this subject then most people here. Most of the terrorists in the Islamic world aren't poor, they are mostly middle class Arabs from the Persian Gulf who are unemployed, depressed, depreived of sex, and looking for an excuse to live. The rich Saudi's my dear are killing the Islam of the poor, an Islam of peace and tolerance.  



Posted By: Jenni
Date Posted: 01 August 2005 at 12:50pm
Whisper and Yusuf, thank you............Peace

-------------
You cant be a good muslim if you are not decent and have a cold heart. Be a decent and kind person and care for women and children and the elderly.


Posted By: b95000
Date Posted: 01 August 2005 at 2:13pm
Originally posted by Yusuf. Yusuf. wrote:

Originally posted by Jenni Jenni wrote:

Whisper, can you do math? 2% of 160 million is about 3.1 million people.And I have been to Pakistan twice, and the 2% that scare me are not just the religiously intolerant folks, but the gangsters, drug addicts, tribal lords who order murders and rapes ect. I think that could add up to 2% of the country. The rest of the 98% are very good and that is a better % of good people than we have in America which is probably only 70%.

Drive around south central LA at night and I guarantee you that you will find an environment that makes the worst Pakistani neighborhoods seem quite safe.

It's amazing the Americans are so ready to point the finger at other nations' shortcomings while their own citizens are subjected to such horrible conditions.



If Americans, of hundreds of ethnic, political and national backgrounds, can get along, generally in 2005, with some nominal levels of violence internally (violent crime has dropped consistently in the US for the past 15 to 20 years) then how is this pointed to as a 'bad model?'

Conversely, if much of the rest of the world's nation states, with relatively fewer racially diverse backgrounds or large racially diverse communities (probably more tribalism, etc, or perhaps you could compare the ethnic diversity of the US with tribalism) has internal troubles in their conditions, just like or worse than the US with its greater racial diversities - how does this somehow reflect poorly on the US?

It just isn't reality or factual to say so..


-------------
Bruce
Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.


Posted By: Yusuf.
Date Posted: 01 August 2005 at 2:48pm
Originally posted by b95000 b95000 wrote:

Originally posted by Yusuf. Yusuf. wrote:

Originally posted by Jenni Jenni wrote:

Whisper, can you do math? 2% of 160 million is about 3.1 million people.And I have been to Pakistan twice, and the 2% that scare me are not just the religiously intolerant folks, but the gangsters, drug addicts, tribal lords who order murders and rapes ect. I think that could add up to 2% of the country. The rest of the 98% are very good and that is a better % of good people than we have in America which is probably only 70%.

Drive around south central LA at night and I guarantee you that you will find an environment that makes the worst Pakistani neighborhoods seem quite safe.

It's amazing the Americans are so ready to point the finger at other nations' shortcomings while their own citizens are subjected to such horrible conditions.



If Americans, of hundreds of ethnic, political and national backgrounds, can get along, generally in 2005, with some nominal levels of violence internally (violent crime has dropped consistently in the US for the past 15 to 20 years) then how is this pointed to as a 'bad model?'

Conversely, if much of the rest of the world's nation states, with relatively fewer racially diverse backgrounds or large racially diverse communities (probably more tribalism, etc, or perhaps you could compare the ethnic diversity of the US with tribalism) has internal troubles in their conditions, just like or worse than the US with its greater racial diversities - how does this somehow reflect poorly on the US?

It just isn't reality or factual to say so..

Once again avoiding the point of the post in order to spout more nationalist blather.



-------------
Yusuf


Posted By: Yusuf.
Date Posted: 01 August 2005 at 2:53pm

And as always your assertion is false:

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/tables/totalstab.htm - http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/tables/totalstab.htm



-------------
Yusuf


Posted By: b95000
Date Posted: 01 August 2005 at 4:04pm
Originally posted by Yusuf. Yusuf. wrote:

And as always your assertion is false:

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/tables/totalstab.htm - http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/tables/totalstab.htm



Starting to worry about our professor friend who's so worried about rocitreal's spelling problems...even a cursory review of your "proof" that I'm wrong shows that the long term secular trend shows almost a halving of the US homocide rate since 1980! 

And your point is what Yusuf?


-------------
Bruce
Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.


Posted By: Yusuf.
Date Posted: 01 August 2005 at 4:12pm

Well in your initial post on the subject you claim that violent crime rates have dropped over the past 15-20 years. Here are the stats for homicides over the last 20 years:

1985 8.0 18,976
1986 8.6 20,613
1987 8.3 20,096
1988 8.5 20,675
1989 8.7 21,500
1990 9.4 23,438
1991 9.8 24,703
1992 9.3 23,760
1993 9.5 24,526
1994 9.0 23,326
1995 8.2 21,606
1996 7.4 19,645
1997 6.8 18,208
1998 6.3 16,974
1999 5.7 15,522
2000 5.5 15,586
2001 5.6 16,037
2002 5.6 16,204

So as you can see, they do not drop steadily at all, but rather increase until 1993, when they do in fact drop to a low by 2000, at which point they remain stable.

You use generalizations that do not accurately reflect the reality of the situation to promote your simplistic, jingostic ideology. Even your response, after having seen the data, distorts the actual data to attempt to prove your point.

My point is that you are a dishonest individual.

Furthermore, you still communicate in an immature fashion.



-------------
Yusuf


Posted By: b95000
Date Posted: 01 August 2005 at 4:16pm
Originally posted by Whisper Whisper wrote:

I agree and respect your point, Jenni. This situation would not have been there if that country was allowed to develop institutions instead of being dictated by short fuse / short sighted army men for all these years. If army rule is such a good thing why not appy it in the US?


Oh, let's guess, it's another day and Whisper is blaming ALL the world's ills on the (230 year young) US...whatever happened to the ancient ways and taking responsibility for oneself (or a country) and one's actions?

Has anyone ever heard Sasha Whisperer critique Russia or China and their contributions toward global destabilization in the past 50 years?

No, his is the obsession that the US is pure EVIL and responsible for all EVIL.  He fashions himself as reasonable and intellectually vigorous..


-------------
Bruce
Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.


Posted By: Yusuf.
Date Posted: 01 August 2005 at 4:19pm

Originally posted by b95000 b95000 wrote:

Originally posted by Whisper Whisper wrote:

I agree and respect your point, Jenni. This situation would not have been there if that country was allowed to develop institutions instead of being dictated by short fuse / short sighted army men for all these years. If army rule is such a good thing why not appy it in the US?


Oh, let's guess, it's another day and Whisper is blaming ALL the world's ills on the (230 year young) US...whatever happened to the ancient ways and taking responsibility for oneself (or a country) and one's actions?

Has anyone ever heard Sasha Whisperer critique Russia or China and their contributions toward global destabilization in the past 50 years?

No, his is the obsession that the US is pure EVIL and responsible for all EVIL.  He fashions himself as reasonable and intellectually vigorous..

Yes, but if we criticized Russia and China you wouldn't fire back, and then where would all our fun go?



-------------
Yusuf


Posted By: b95000
Date Posted: 01 August 2005 at 4:20pm
Originally posted by Yusuf. Yusuf. wrote:

Well in your initial post on the subject you claim that violent crime rates have dropped over the past 15-20 years. Here are the stats for homicides over the last 20 years:

1985 8.0 18,976
1986 8.6 20,613
1987 8.3 20,096
1988 8.5 20,675
1989 8.7 21,500
1990 9.4 23,438
1991 9.8 24,703
1992 9.3 23,760
1993 9.5 24,526
1994 9.0 23,326
1995 8.2 21,606
1996 7.4 19,645
1997 6.8 18,208
1998 6.3 16,974
1999 5.7 15,522
2000 5.5 15,586
2001 5.6 16,037
2002 5.6 16,204

So as you can see, they do not drop steadily at all, but rather increase until 1993, when they do in fact drop to a low by 2000, at which point they remain stable.

You use generalizations that do not accurately reflect the reality of the situation to promote your simplistic, jingostic ideology. Even your response, after having seen the data, distorts the actual data to attempt to prove your point.

My point is that you are a dishonest individual.

Furthermore, you still communicate in an immature fashion.



1980 10.2 23,040
1981 9.8 22,520
1982 9.1 21,010
1983 8.3 19,308
1984 7.9 18,692
1985 8.0 18,976
1986 8.6 20,613
1987 8.3 20,096
1988 8.5 20,675
1989 8.7 21,500
1990 9.4 23,438
1991 9.8 24,703
1992 9.3 23,760
1993 9.5 24,526
1994 9.0 23,326
1995 8.2 21,606
1996 7.4 19,645
1997 6.8 18,208
1998 6.3 16,974
1999 5.7 15,522
2000 5.5 15,586
2001 5.6 16,037
2002 5.6 16,204


Well Mr. Professor, go back to 1980 and see "violent crime has dropped consistently in the US for the past 15 to 20 years" - which was EXACTLY as I said (in fact I'm quoting my post verbatim.)  For you to say, "as always" I'm "false" when you're wrong and prove yourself wrong and me correct with your own post, is just hilarious...


-------------
Bruce
Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.


Posted By: Yusuf.
Date Posted: 01 August 2005 at 4:23pm

yes, the  big dropoff starts around '96-97. I read about this too; guns started to become less available.

Anyway, this is stupid, Bruce, Truce!



-------------
Yusuf


Posted By: b95000
Date Posted: 01 August 2005 at 4:31pm
Originally posted by Yusuf. Yusuf. wrote:

yes, the  big dropoff starts around '96-97. I read about this too; guns started to become less available.

Anyway, this is stupid, Bruce, Truce!



The commentary on FBI stats for YEARS have said that violent crime in the US has been dropping - and you wanted to contend that reality and try to "prove" that I am "always" wrong...that is your deal Yusuf...that is an axe you decided, wrongly I might add, to grind..

There are a lot of reasons for the dropoffs in violent crime in the US including stiffer sentences.  There is debate whether gun control or gun freedom has greater impact on lowering violence, with states that have greater gun rights having less violent crime than states that have more gun control.  This may be problematic reasoning though, as states with more gun control typically have much greater populations - however reasonable gun control seems to make sense without eliminating the freedom to bear arms for self defense, when proper channels are followed and folks don't disqualify themselves legally to bear arms..


-------------
Bruce
Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.


Posted By: b95000
Date Posted: 01 August 2005 at 4:32pm
Originally posted by Yusuf. Yusuf. wrote:

Originally posted by b95000 b95000 wrote:

Originally posted by Whisper Whisper wrote:

I agree and respect your point, Jenni. This situation would not have been there if that country was allowed to develop institutions instead of being dictated by short fuse / short sighted army men for all these years. If army rule is such a good thing why not appy it in the US?


Oh, let's guess, it's another day and Whisper is blaming ALL the world's ills on the (230 year young) US...whatever happened to the ancient ways and taking responsibility for oneself (or a country) and one's actions?

Has anyone ever heard Sasha Whisperer critique Russia or China and their contributions toward global destabilization in the past 50 years?

No, his is the obsession that the US is pure EVIL and responsible for all EVIL.  He fashions himself as reasonable and intellectually vigorous..

Yes, but if we criticized Russia and China you wouldn't fire back, and then where would all our fun go?



So why not be inaccurate and non-comprehensive then - OK, got it!


-------------
Bruce
Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.


Posted By: Yusuf.
Date Posted: 01 August 2005 at 4:34pm
Originally posted by b95000 b95000 wrote:

Originally posted by Yusuf. Yusuf. wrote:

yes, the  big dropoff starts around '96-97. I read about this too; guns started to become less available.

Anyway, this is stupid, Bruce, Truce!



The commentary on FBI stats for YEARS have said that violent crime in the US has been dropping - and you wanted to contend that reality and try to "prove" that I am "always" wrong...that is your deal Yusuf...that is an axe you decided, wrongly I might add, to grind..

No, it's not an axe I'm trying to grind, I just wanted to see how ticked off I could get you. But you're pretty resilient, I gotta hand that to you.

Did you read my post about why cats are cranky?



-------------
Yusuf


Posted By: b95000
Date Posted: 01 August 2005 at 4:49pm
Originally posted by Yusuf. Yusuf. wrote:

Originally posted by b95000 b95000 wrote:

Originally posted by Yusuf. Yusuf. wrote:

yes, the  big dropoff starts around '96-97. I read about this too; guns started to become less available.

Anyway, this is stupid, Bruce, Truce!



The commentary on FBI stats for YEARS have said that violent crime in the US has been dropping - and you wanted to contend that reality and try to "prove" that I am "always" wrong...that is your deal Yusuf...that is an axe you decided, wrongly I might add, to grind..

No, it's not an axe I'm trying to grind, I just wanted to see how ticked off I could get you. But you're pretty resilient, I gotta hand that to you.

Did you read my post about why cats are cranky?



So, I'm not always wrong? hehehe
Didn't catch your cats post - is that on another string?


-------------
Bruce
Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.


Posted By: Yusuf.
Date Posted: 01 August 2005 at 4:52pm
Originally posted by b95000 b95000 wrote:

Originally posted by Yusuf. Yusuf. wrote:

Originally posted by b95000 b95000 wrote:

Originally posted by Yusuf. Yusuf. wrote:

yes, the  big dropoff starts around '96-97. I read about this too; guns started to become less available.

Anyway, this is stupid, Bruce, Truce!



The commentary on FBI stats for YEARS have said that violent crime in the US has been dropping - and you wanted to contend that reality and try to "prove" that I am "always" wrong...that is your deal Yusuf...that is an axe you decided, wrongly I might add, to grind..

No, it's not an axe I'm trying to grind, I just wanted to see how ticked off I could get you. But you're pretty resilient, I gotta hand that to you.

Did you read my post about why cats are cranky?



So, I'm not always wrong? hehehe
Didn't catch your cats post - is that on another string?

It's in the "general" forum.



-------------
Yusuf


Posted By: Duende
Date Posted: 03 August 2005 at 8:29am
Bruce, what's a homocide? Any connection with homophobe?


Posted By: b95000
Date Posted: 03 August 2005 at 12:02pm
Originally posted by Duende Duende wrote:

Bruce, what's a homocide? Any connection with homophobe?


Oops...must institute spell check at IslamiCity...


-------------
Bruce
Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.



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