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to the Islamic Terrorists

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Category: Politics
Forum Name: World Politics
Forum Description: World Politics
URL: https://www.islamicity.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1565
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Topic: to the Islamic Terrorists
Posted By: rocitreal
Subject: to the Islamic Terrorists
Date Posted: 20 July 2005 at 9:57pm

this section of the board seems to have some nutty extremists screwing up the non-muslims perspective of Islam.  Id appreciate it if the crazy nutty people move on to another board, this one has many moderate nice muslims who are not in the same boat as a few i see in World Politics.

If you support Bin Laden go live in a cave with him and get out of the country if you hate the government.

If you think america is equal to Nazi Germany you need to study history further because your warped currently.

 



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Peace, its more than a word its a dream.



Replies:
Posted By: ZamanH
Date Posted: 21 July 2005 at 1:56am
Nazis were bad because they exterminated other Westerners. Americans, British and French must be lot better because they exterminated coloured people from other parts of the world.

-------------
An enemy of an enemy is a fickle friend.
There will be more women in hell than men.
..for persecution is worse than the slaughter of the enemy..(Quran 2:191)
Heaven lies under mother's feet


Posted By: rocitreal
Date Posted: 21 July 2005 at 10:47am

Originally posted by ZamanH ZamanH wrote:

Nazis were bad because they exterminated other Westerners. Americans, British and French must be lot better because they exterminated coloured people from other parts of the world.

nope, you got that all wrong man.  If the US wanted to exterminate they would nuke Iraq and Syria to start with, not waste billions on trying to clean up the region.

Its amazing how people can compare the US government with Nazi Germany.  There are no similarities whatso ever.



-------------
Peace, its more than a word its a dream.


Posted By: Finefair
Date Posted: 21 July 2005 at 1:40pm

So we try to understand these terrorist acts, not out of context as the mass media continually try to program us to do, but firmly in the context of our disastrous medalling and occupation in the Middle East over the past decade and more. We realize that our foreign policy has made millions of people around the world, and many in this country too, so incensed with rage that they are willing to support attacks on soft civilian targets, just as our government has supported such attacks on a much grander scale in the Middle East. This is our karma, the blowback from Blair's vicious foreign policy that has seen him pulling this country into a war that few wanted, and one against which a million or more of us demonstrated against here in London back March 2003, but to no avail (such is the state of British democracy).

The fault, is not in our stars, But in ourselves, that we are underlings." The moral slugs who fabricated the excuses for this war, and who helped to mobilize weak-souled men and women into a mindless support for it, are certainly accountable for their wrongs. But instead of focusing our anger upon them � which would be but another act of projection of our own "dark side" onto them � we would be better advised to confront our own existential cowardice. Political leaders amass power only through our moral exhaustion; they are strong only because we have allowed ourselves to become weak. Perhaps in our willingness to get acquainted with our "shadow," we may discover the best defense against those who have mastered the art of manipulating men and women of the west into the subservient but malignant herds that are destroying mankind.

The truth is that behind all crime no matter how small it is, the root cause is usually injustice. Does this injustice make the crime justifiable? Off course not! But the powerful & the influential of the world has to come to this realization that till the day they deliver justice, peace & prosperity to the majority oppressed, brutalized and persecuted masses, their glass houses shall always remain vulnerable. That�s just a fact of life, sooner we reach this apprehension better it will be for all of us.The truth is that behind all crime no matter how small it is, the root cause is usually injustice. Does this injustice make the crime justifiable? Off course not! But the powerful & the influential of the world has to come to this realization that till the day they deliver justice, peace & prosperity to the majority oppressed, brutalized and persecuted masses, their glass houses shall always remain vulnerable. That�s just a fact of life, sooner we reach this apprehension better it will be for all of us.


Posted By: b95000
Date Posted: 21 July 2005 at 4:07pm
Originally posted by ZamanH ZamanH wrote:

Nazis were bad because they exterminated other Westerners. Americans, British and French must be lot better because they exterminated coloured people from other parts of the world.


No, that's not an over statement - whew!
Listen, germs did more to kill the indiginous populations of North and South America then any supposed 'plan' to exterminate them.  Are you going to impugn Allah now, because of His poor design for life?


-------------
Bruce
Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.


Posted By: b95000
Date Posted: 21 July 2005 at 4:25pm
Originally posted by Finefair Finefair wrote:


So we try to understand these terrorist acts, not out of context as the mass media continually try to program us to do, but firmly in the context of our disastrous medalling and occupation in the Middle East over the past decade and more.  We realize that our foreign policy has made millions of people around the world, and many in this country too, so incensed with rage that they are willing to support attacks on soft civilian targets,

B: Are you seriously suggesting that there is a legitimacy to attacking 'soft civilian targets' - let's just get down to it - let's say kids collecting candy - that that's somehow legitimate to slaughter them to bits in order to make one's 'rage' known (political rage, no less)?  Come on!

We realize that our foreign policy has made millions of people around the world, and many in this country too, so incensed with rage that they are willing to support attacks on soft civilian targets, just as our government has supported such attacks on a much grander scale in the Middle East.

B: 'supported such attacks on a much grander scale' - are you saying the MNF supports killing kids and killing civilians?  That civilian deaths are planned and intentional?  Get real!

This is our karma, the blowback from Blair's vicious foreign policy...The moral slugs who fabricated the excuses for this war...manipulating men and women of the west into the subservient but malignant herds that are destroying mankind.

B: Do you call ending mass murders 'vicious foreign policy?'  How so?!  How can you be so blithely disconnected from the facts of this liberation?  Saddam will also never again use WMDs.  Further, the AQ connections with Iraq are now covert and illegal.

The truth is that behind all crime no matter how small it is, the root cause is usually injustice. Does this injustice make the crime justifiable? Off course not! But the powerful & the influential of the world has to come to this realization that till the day they deliver justice, peace & prosperity to the majority oppressed, brutalized and persecuted masses, their glass houses shall always remain vulnerable.

B: I agree, we need to unite and work together against the issues of injustice that contribute to the atmosphere that may allow people to take revenge in heinous ways.  I also agree though, that morally, no crime, whether by government or quasi-government (like al Qaeda) is justifiable.  So let's have our arguments about the democracies' governance (because we can, we're allowed, we won't be shot down at city hall) - but how do we reform AQ for their 'crimes against humanity?'


-------------
Bruce
Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.


Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 25 July 2005 at 4:32pm

Finefair, a just, fair and balanced British approach. We can treat an illness only with its proper diagnosis, not merely by trying to score a few points like some others here infesting our world by trying to market slaughter and occupations under some freshly cut Liberation labels.



Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 25 July 2005 at 4:39pm

FineFair if anyone ever mentions how Iraqis are celbrating their Liberation, please, show them this clip from none other than their own Washignton Post:

Iraqis Put Contempt For Troops On Display

By Edward Cody
Washington Post Foreign Service
Saturday, June 12, 2004; Page A01

BAGHDAD, June 11 -- A pair of AH-64 Apache helicopter gunships thumped back and forth overhead, scouring residential streets for insurgents. Dun-colored Bradley Fighting Vehicles snorted and wheeled around, their tracks gouging holes in the tarmac. A dozen Humvees stood sentry, closing off the four-lane avenue to Iraqi cars, while nervous American soldiers with M-16 automatic rifles forbade local residents from approaching.

"Look at this," said Ghassan Abu Ahmed, raising his hand in a sweeping gesture toward the tableau of military might. "This is freedom? It is crazy."

A car bomb had just hit a U.S. military convoy passing down the main avenue Friday afternoon in southwest Baghdad's Sayediyeh neighborhood, one of the near-daily attacks on occupation troops across Iraq. By the standards of Iraqi violence over the past two months, it was not particularly bloody. The U.S. military reported no serious casualties. But for what it told about Iraqis' attitudes toward the 13-month-old U.S. occupation, the attack was devastating.

"What Saddam did was awful, but what the Americans are doing is worse," said Abu Ahmed, a laborer who lives with his wife and four sons in a government-built apartment house flanking the road. "They say they are bringing us freedom. But this is what they bring."

Since U.S. forces drove to Baghdad and overthrew President Saddam Hussein in April 2003, the 138,000 American soldiers stationed here have lost their status as liberators in the eyes of most Iraqis. Polling by the U.S.-led Coalition Provisional Authority has chronicled a steady souring of opinion, with the most recent surveys showing about 80 percent of Iraqis with an unfavorable opinion of U.S. troops.

They have been encouraged in their views by Muslim preachers, who, judging by their sermons, have concluded that the U.S. occupation should end immediately if peace is to be restored to Iraq. To buttress their arguments, they repeatedly have cited the abuse of Iraqi captives at Abu Ghraib prison, which has helped crystallize opinion against the presence of U.S. soldiers.

"It was discovered that the freedom in this land is not ours. It is the freedom of the occupying soldiers in doing what they like, such as arresting, carrying out raids, killing at random or stealing money," Sheik Mohammed Bashir declared in his sermon Friday at Um al-Oura, a Sunni Muslim mosque in the middle-class Ghazaliya neighborhood.

"No one can ask them what they are doing, because they are protected by their freedom," he continued. "No one can punish them, whether in our country or their country. The worst thing is what was discovered in the course of time: abusing women, children, men, and the old men and women whom they arrested randomly and without any guilt. They expressed the freedom of rape, the freedom of nudity and the freedom of humiliation."

Sheik Bagir Saad at the Hikma Mosque in Sadr City, a stronghold of Shiite Muslim militiamen who have confronted the occupation militarily, denounced U.S. and U.N. plans that he said call for increased involvement by the international body and an increased emphasis on military forces from a variety of countries.

"The new U.N. resolution calls for multinational forces, but we want to inform all the countries that we don't want their armies, whether Arab, Islamic or foreign armies, because we will look at any army coming to Iraq as an occupation, and they should not send their children into this trap," he said.

The Baghdad residents who lined up to watch as U.S. soldiers clustered around their wrecked Humvees on Friday were clearly among the majority who have heeded the call of their sheiks. No one was heard expressing concern for the soldiers who were bombed. Judging by their comments, the neighbors of Sayediyeh's middle-class apartments looked at the avenue and saw enemies in desert camouflage.

Mohammed Ali Ahmed, 24, a worker who lives nearby, complained that the wounded U.S. soldiers were picked up and driven away for medical care by an Iraqi civilian ambulance that happened by. Iraqi ambulances are not for occupying troops, he declared.

"They shouldn't have taken them in the ambulance. They should have left them there, left them to die," Ahmed said to a neighbor.

"That's not right," objected Aqil Kitab, 28, another worker who was standing next to him. "Have you ever been in the army? Even your enemy, when he is wounded, you have to treat him. Then you can interrogate him or put him in a prisoner-of-war camp. The ambulance driver did his job. It was the right thing to do."



Posted By: b95000
Date Posted: 25 July 2005 at 6:16pm

Ah, here's that 13 months old article...?!


-------------
Bruce
Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.


Posted By: Noah
Date Posted: 25 July 2005 at 7:41pm
Originally posted by b95000 b95000 wrote:


Ah, here's that 13 months old article...?!


So now thats its 13 months old its not valid anymore, or perhaps it didnt happen?

Peace
Noah


Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 26 July 2005 at 5:28am

Yes. And, in these past 13 months it's gone worse. It barely matters how or what you wish to push down our throats, with the sheer farce of shouting your own point in favour of your own point as long as your president and the Pentagon have come to realise it's gravity.

However hard we shout, with whatever over dramatic utterances we leap off all the relevant questions (as in your treatment of FineFair's post) we fail to change British or any Public view when Tony's and your Texas Kid's entre spin machinery put together couldn't.

There is a very simple law of life, which even the whole lot of Neo-Cons put together won't be able to change - and even mange to nuke to whole world. "As you sow, so shall you reap"

Don't start calling me names, I promise, I didn't make this law.

I was wrong in calling you stupid. You should be awarded your own stand in the World Gallery of Scoundrels & Perfect Idiots.



Posted By: Yusuf.
Date Posted: 26 July 2005 at 9:35am
Originally posted by Whisper Whisper wrote:

I was wrong in calling you stupid. You should be awarded your own stand in the World Gallery of Scoundrels & Perfect Idiots.

Assalamu alaikum,

Well stated akhi.

I will be so glad when college starts again so I can talk with my students, who at least have some semblance of intelligence and comprehension of history, instead of these high school dropouts who can't even spell.



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Yusuf


Posted By: Yusuf.
Date Posted: 26 July 2005 at 10:54am
Originally posted by rocitreal rocitreal wrote:

Originally posted by ZamanH ZamanH wrote:

Nazis were bad because they exterminated other Westerners. Americans, British and French must be lot better because they exterminated coloured people from other parts of the world.

nope, you got that all wrong man.  If the US wanted to exterminate they would nuke Iraq and Syria to start with, not waste billions on trying to clean up the region.

The United States cannot use its nuclear arsenal, which is a counterbalance to the Russian arsenal. If it were employed in the Middle East, Russia's 50,000 nuclear warheads would become the superior nuclear force, something the US cannot abide.

If the US were to choose such a course, they would need to employ their ICBMs. Once these missiles crossed into international space, the Russian Federation would quite logically assume that the attack was directed at them, and retaliate with their arsenal.

Should the US "warn" Russia that their attack is directed at the Middle East, the Russians wouldn't believe them and certainly threaten to use their nuclear aresenal immediately upon launch of US ICBMs.

This of course explains Bush's interest in developing smaller nuclear weapons.



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Yusuf


Posted By: b95000
Date Posted: 26 July 2005 at 3:40pm
Originally posted by Noah Noah wrote:

Originally posted by b95000 b95000 wrote:


Ah, here's that 13 months old article...?!


So now thats its 13 months old its not valid anymore, or perhaps it didnt happen?

Peace
Noah


Of course not, per se, but to quote people's opinions before huge events like the transfer of power and the 8.5 million voting  happened is just disingenous..


-------------
Bruce
Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.


Posted By: b95000
Date Posted: 26 July 2005 at 3:46pm
Originally posted by Yusuf. Yusuf. wrote:

Originally posted by Whisper Whisper wrote:

I was wrong in calling you stupid. You should be awarded your own stand in the World Gallery of Scoundrels & Perfect Idiots.

Assalamu alaikum,

Well stated akhi.

I will be so glad when college starts again so I can talk with my students, who at least have some semblance of intelligence and comprehension of history, instead of these high school dropouts who can't even spell.



Hi Yusuf,

Can't you read?  Where's your reading comprehension?  Oh wow, and you're telling us that you are teaching college?  My, my...and you want to blast others for not being able to spell - at least they can follow a string of posts.

Just to fill you in, Sasha was referring to me...

Time for 'remedial' reading comprehension school for you our esteemed college prof?  [Yasha has blasted rocitreal for 'not being able to spell' and told him to take remedial English...oh what poetic justice for someone to fall down on their own pride..]


-------------
Bruce
Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.


Posted By: Yusuf.
Date Posted: 26 July 2005 at 4:15pm
Originally posted by b95000 b95000 wrote:

Originally posted by Yusuf. Yusuf. wrote:

Originally posted by Whisper Whisper wrote:

I was wrong in calling you stupid. You should be awarded your own stand in the World Gallery of Scoundrels & Perfect Idiots.

Assalamu alaikum,

Well stated akhi.

I will be so glad when college starts again so I can talk with my students, who at least have some semblance of intelligence and comprehension of history, instead of these high school dropouts who can't even spell.



Hi Yusuf,

Can't you read?  Where's your reading comprehension?  Oh wow, and you're telling us that you are teaching college?  My, my...and you want to blast others for not being able to spell - at least they can follow a string of posts.

Just to fill you in, Sasha was referring to me...

Time for 'remedial' reading comprehension school for you our esteemed college prof?  [Yasha has blasted rocitreal for 'not being able to spell' and told him to take remedial English...oh what poetic justice for someone to fall down on their own pride..]

How childish. I followed the string quite well; I was lumping you all together, since you are all equally ignorant.

And judging from the glee at which you jumped to insult me, I might add immature.



-------------
Yusuf


Posted By: b95000
Date Posted: 26 July 2005 at 4:34pm
Originally posted by Yusuf. Yusuf. wrote:

Originally posted by b95000 b95000 wrote:

Originally posted by Yusuf. Yusuf. wrote:

Originally posted by Whisper Whisper wrote:

I was wrong in calling you stupid. You should be awarded your own stand in the World Gallery of Scoundrels & Perfect Idiots.

Assalamu alaikum,

Well stated akhi.

I will be so glad when college starts again so I can talk with my students, who at least have some semblance of intelligence and comprehension of history, instead of these high school dropouts who can't even spell.



Hi Yusuf,

Can't you read?  Where's your reading comprehension?  Oh wow, and you're telling us that you are teaching college?  My, my...and you want to blast others for not being able to spell - at least they can follow a string of posts.

Just to fill you in, Sasha was referring to me...

Time for 'remedial' reading comprehension school for you our esteemed college prof?  [Yasha has blasted rocitreal for 'not being able to spell' and told him to take remedial English...oh what poetic justice for someone to fall down on their own pride..]

How childish. I followed the string quite well; I was lumping you all together, since you are all equally ignorant.

And judging from the glee at which you jumped to insult me, I might add immature.



Brilliant argumentation, Mr. Professor...what's tomorrow's lesson?

You want to talk about immature and jumping onto someone with glee?  It's mocking and belittling someone who can't spell, now that's immature, and that's exactly what you've done Mr. Professor.

So you want to be able to blast others and yet not be under the same standards...

Ridiculous!  Hypocritical...


-------------
Bruce
Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.


Posted By: Noah
Date Posted: 26 July 2005 at 5:48pm
Quote instead of these high school dropouts who can't even spell.


You know, this is the internet brother not a spelling contest. Do you understand what is being said?. then who cares how its spelled. I make errors all over the place, misspelling, freudan slips, hitting wrong keys. But a rarely correct it. Why would i? its still clear what i want to get through i hope, allthough English is my 3rd or 4th language. this kind of argumentation hit so widely, thats they are useless. But ofcourse, if you are a teacher, i understand why youre being anal about spelling :p

Peace
Noah


Posted By: Yusuf.
Date Posted: 26 July 2005 at 8:26pm

Originally posted by Noah Noah wrote:

Quote instead of these high school dropouts who can't even spell.


You know, this is the internet brother not a spelling contest. Do you understand what is being said?. then who cares how its spelled. I make errors all over the place, misspelling, freudan slips, hitting wrong keys. But a rarely correct it. Why would i? its still clear what i want to get through i hope, allthough English is my 3rd or 4th language. this kind of argumentation hit so widely, thats they are useless. But ofcourse, if you are a teacher, i understand why youre being anal about spelling :p

Peace
Noah

Assalamu alaikum,

You said it yourself: English is your 3rd or 4th language. The ability to spell correctly in one's native language is a clear indicator of educational level and amount of reading done. The person I am referring to cannot spell in his native language, and therefore has quite a low level of education and does not read much. Such people are not worth valuable seconds communicating with.

Someone who speaks 3 languages is multilingual.

Someone who speaks 2 languages is bilingual.

Someone who only speaks 1 language is American.



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Yusuf


Posted By: b95000
Date Posted: 26 July 2005 at 8:52pm
"Someone who only speaks 1 language is American."

Wrong again, oh great Yusufu...'far from home'?  So, you're also taking to slamming an entire race, like Sasha...nice...is that the way college profs are from wherever you are?  Here you are teaching college and yet challenged in your ability to follow a posting string and 'lumping' everyone together because, as you put it, we're all equally 'ignorant.'   That's just superb - more racial epithets thrown at Americans, all Americans, huh Yusuf?  All 300 million of us are 'ignorant'?  Talk about childish...a childish college prof...whew! 

"The ability to spell correctly in one's native language is a clear indicator of educational level and amount of reading done."

The ability to insult and slam others, is a clear indication of either low self esteem or rude arrogance. 

Out of curiosity, Rocitreal, were you born in the States?



-------------
Bruce
Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.


Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 27 July 2005 at 3:24pm
There is nothing wrong about pleading ignorance at such times. You may be let off with much less than for continuing to hang on to the arrogance of knowing it all and still messing up the world.


Posted By: b95000
Date Posted: 28 July 2005 at 4:19pm
Originally posted by Whisper Whisper wrote:

There is nothing wrong about pleading ignorance at such times. You may be let off with much less than for continuing to hang on to the arrogance of knowing it all and still messing up the world.


Pleading ignorance is one thing, assigning ignorance to others is what Yusuf did..he said he'd lumped the Americans together because we were 'equally ignorant.'  Well dems the facts...

Assigning ignorance to a whole group is arrogance.  So, what are you talking about Sasha?


-------------
Bruce
Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.


Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 30 July 2005 at 5:12pm

Assigning ignorance to a whole group is arrogance.

So what would you call assigning evil to an entire region especially when it wakes up to decades of injustice?

Have you started to think for a change?



Posted By: beloved
Date Posted: 30 July 2005 at 11:24pm
Do you people use the phrase "Islamic te********" even in this forum?


Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 21 August 2005 at 4:18am

Do you people use the phrase "Islamic te********" even in this forum?
Yes, my love. Don't you ever watch the news? Izlaam has long been assigned the global Master Franchise of terror by its principal producers in Washington and Londres.



Posted By: b95000
Date Posted: 22 August 2005 at 10:53pm
Originally posted by Whisper Whisper wrote:

Assigning ignorance to a whole group is arrogance.

So what would you call assigning evil to an entire region especially when it wakes up to decades of injustice?

Have you started to think for a change?



Have you decided to quit ad hominem attacks - oh, guess not...must mean you've got little in the way of content...just insults...personal attacks...but little to add and of substance when these items that you vociferously disagree with are brought forth...quit delaying man and get into the discussion...personal attacks don't count..

Yes, waking up to injustice has its own force, it's own dynamic and should be respected as such...look I can discuss your idea without attacking you Sasha...if you would quit attacking those you disagree with you'd appear much stronger and much less insecure..

You would be more persuasive..just a thought..


-------------
Bruce
Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.


Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 24 August 2005 at 8:07pm

You would be more persuasive..just a thought..

Wrong number, I have neither the desire nor any need to persuade anyone - for or against anything here. For me it's not a competition for scoring points or some show of debating skills. I just present the situation on the ground as it is - not as I would wish it to be.

Why should I attack when I stand grateful to you for exposing yourself by running into side alleys of the issues with explanations always far beyond the call of actual question.



Posted By: b95000
Date Posted: 26 August 2005 at 12:58am
Originally posted by Whisper Whisper wrote:

You would be more persuasive..just a thought..

Wrong number, I have neither the desire nor any need to persuade anyone - for or against anything here. For me it's not a competition for scoring points or some show of debating skills. I just present the situation on the ground as it is - not as I would wish it to be.

B: Look, you undoubtedly have knowledge of some parts of Afghanistan.  But you cannot even begin to represent or even know all of the various aspiring groups there - especially from such a negative paradigm.  Do you really believe that being abrasive and anti, anti, anti...is the way to approach life?  Maybe you've had a pretty hard life (you keep accusing me of some deep seeded psychological problem...hahahaha...)

Why should I attack when I stand grateful to you for exposing yourself by running into side alleys of the issues with explanations always far beyond the call of actual question.

B: This is not true.  I am always willing to discuss any matter with reasonable people.  When people travel over into the tripe of racism and small thinking like that - I don't care how many clans they're looking after, how many religions they claim to know or how many countries they've either lived in or vistied,  I will oppose such despicable attitudes..



-------------
Bruce
Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.


Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 27 August 2005 at 4:34pm

But you cannot even begin to represent or even know all of the various aspiring groups there  That cockiness makes you lose all that you are here to score! Okay, you tell us what you know first hand about anything not just about Afghanistan? Even what you keep pushing about the US is all second hand stuff stolen from some Neo Con tabloids or Fox News at best.

You know what you are saying? You are exposing lot more of your social and intellectual impotence than I could have worked out in these past few weeks. You are saying that a person of any worth shouldn't be talking to you. I did not realise that you had such low self esteem.

I would have introduced myself only if you knew anything about Islam or even about some other cultures at all. Thank goodness you remain ignorant of what I represent and who we know and who we don't. 

This is not true. Just look at your posts, you always take refuge into side issues and at times into absolutely unrelated statistics.



Posted By: b95000
Date Posted: 29 August 2005 at 6:25pm
Originally posted by Whisper Whisper wrote:

But you cannot even begin to represent or even know all of the various aspiring groups there  That cockiness makes you lose all that you are here to score! Okay, you tell us what you know first hand about anything not just about Afghanistan?

B: Are you suggesting you know about all corners of Afghanistan?  Every group there?  Come on...your question of me is non-sensical - I've never claimed special and intimate knowledge, I know my limitations.  I do have fairly decent, even extensive knowledge on certain topics, as I'm sure do you..even when I give you your due, acknowledge your knowledge (yes with a caveat, but it was still an acknowledgement) - you need to turn it into 'cockiness.'  You are simply a contrarian with me Sasha - you've been doing that for months and there's not logic to it...just racism and pejoratives - I think you simply hate Americans...is that it?  Too bad - there are a lot of us and there are a lot of you..it will make our relations more difficult if that's the 'way it is' for you..

 Even what you keep pushing about the US is all second hand stuff stolen from some Neo Con tabloids or Fox News at best.

B: Oh yeah, the 'ultimate pejorative' - hahahaha...

You know what you are saying? You are exposing lot more of your social and intellectual impotence than I could have worked out in these past few weeks. You are saying that a person of any worth shouldn't be talking to you. I did not realise that you had such low self esteem.

B: How do you get that?  Ridiculous...You're simply imputing deleterious commentary upon me to try to discredit and for the express reason that you do not like me/even hate me (?) because of my positions...underhanded ploy that...such a shame for a man of your position...I would think you would know better at your age how to be diplomatic and wise in these matters.

I would have introduced myself only if you knew anything about Islam or even about some other cultures at all.

B: What absolute tripe...laughable Sasha..

This is not true. Just look at your posts, you always take refuge into side issues and at times into absolutely unrelated statistics.

This is utterly untrue, false.  These are prevarications that suit your purposes and so you throw the invective out - like mud on the wall...really too bad Sasha, that you have to substitute personal attack for meaningful discussion.

When someone disagrees with you, you don't HAVE to attack them...you really don't.  Mature adults can have a different approach..



-------------
Bruce
Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.


Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 31 August 2005 at 1:57pm

B: Are you suggesting you know about all corners of Afghanistan? 

I am not suggesting anything. In traditional cultures, some people are born and trained just for that. That's EXACTLY my job. I also happen to know anyone and everyone worth knowing in neighbouring Pakistan - at personal terms. Anyone we don't know for a generation or two - we do not count as knowing.

Any objections knowing my own country so well?

to try to discredit and for the express reason that you do not like me

B fazle ta'la, I don't have to discredit you at all, you are yourself doing the best job. Please don't flatter yourself by feeling I don't like you. I just don't like our intelligence being insulted with lies and false concerns of our welfare. And, your claims about democracy. 

What happens when elections are held? Everything falls in its place and every one lives happily ever after? Or, are elections just a ploy to LEGITIMISE occupations? Be honest and tell us that. WE ARE ALL LISTENING.

I repeat : only if you knew anything about Islam or some other cultures at all.

You expose your own ignorance by not knowing How Desecration has Affected the WHOLE Muslim world (OR by trying to push it into some side alleys) That is not my fault.

This is utterly untrue, false.

Read my post: Bye bye Bruce and yours' on others matters - even with other posters on this board - you divert and run into side alleys - with smart Alec techniques. These may work in America. But I have told you a few times THAT people on this Board are genuinely and terribly intelligent people.

Mature adults can have a different approach..
Yes, adults can afford to stick to the POINT AT HAND instead of running into some side alley of some karachi or Rio kids WHEN only Palestinian Occupation is being discussed.

Does the sheer mention of occupation knocks something out of your system? Or reminds you of the utter and absolute folly of GWB and the Gang? Tell us what's the fright about and we will try and not mention the O word out of decency.



Posted By: b95000
Date Posted: 07 September 2005 at 1:13am
Originally posted by Whisper Whisper wrote:

B: Are you suggesting you know about all corners of Afghanistan? 

I am not suggesting anything. In traditional cultures, some people are born and trained just for that. That's EXACTLY my job. I also happen to know anyone and everyone worth knowing in neighbouring Pakistan - at personal terms. Anyone we don't know for a generation or two - we do not count as knowing.

Any objections knowing my own country so well?

B: I think it's a great thing that you've known people for a generation of two.  That is a great thing generally and I advocate it here as well and have many long term friendships and family relationships of the same type.  Many that I know are the same way, knowing their local communities and history and possessing a deep and rich family and friendship history.  But Sasha, when you suggest you know 'anyone and everyone WORTH KNOWING', yes, I have great reservations about such a comment.  In my country - everyone is worth knowing, all have the opportunity to rise from nothing to be great and many, many do - thus everyone is worth knowing...perhaps, when you get past this outmoded idea that only some are worth knowing, you may be able to get off your high horse occasionally...
==========================

to try to discredit and for the express reason that you do not like me

B fazle ta'la, I don't have to discredit you at all, you are yourself doing the best job.

B: Brilliant...

Please don't flatter yourself by feeling I don't like you. I just don't like our intelligence being insulted with lies and false concerns of our welfare. And, your claims about democracy.

B: All that I've said is genuine and sincere..you just choose to contend me on most every point.  Like I said, you have an obvious distaste, even a hatred for all Americans and have proven that right well.  I am no exception, so I just take my cue from what you yourself have already said in myriad ways...do don't flatter yourself to think that you can explain your way out of this simply with words, when your words have condemned and betrayed your own attitude toward Americans and toward me for months...it doesn't take a brain surgeon to see what's rollin' round in your head..

What happens when elections are held? Everything falls in its place and every one lives happily ever after?

B: Elections are much better than the alternative - perhaps with your communist party involvement over the years - that has been de-emphasized - for evident reasons.

Or, are elections just a ploy to LEGITIMISE occupations? Be honest and tell us that. WE ARE ALL LISTENING.

B: Anything could be a ploy for anything...your communist friends know ploys and games very well...but I will say this - the evidence of sincerity and genuine intention comes clear over time.  It comes out in the wash - always.  Just like those pesky facts and the truth always find us out.

I repeat : only if you knew anything about Islam or some other cultures at all.

You expose your own ignorance by not knowing How Desecration has Affected the WHOLE Muslim world (OR by trying to push it into some side alleys) That is not my fault.

B: That is ridiculous on many counts...but you persist and bathe in ridiculous...so it doesn't surprise me much..

=======================

This is utterly untrue, false.

Read my post: Bye bye Bruce and yours' on others matters - even with other posters on this board - you divert and run into side alleys - with smart Alec techniques. These may work in America. But I have told you a few times THAT people on this Board are genuinely and terribly intelligent people.

B: Absolutely, and so are many, even most Americans - too bad you're such and agenda, driven racist wonk against Americans...sort of pathetic really...to condemn an entire nation willy nilly, as you do..
==========================

Mature adults can have a different approach..
Yes, adults can afford to stick to the POINT AT HAND

B: "The point at hand" according to Sasha and according to Sasha only...you're the one accusing me of getting off point - but you never prove any of your myriad of specious accusations - beginning with the supposed Newsweek articles proving the retraction of the retraction - why should we believe any of your charges and allegations in the light of your record so far?

 instead of running into some side alley of some karachi or Rio kids WHEN only Palestinian Occupation is being discussed.

B: You are obsessing our dear communist friend...and I thought that the communists cared for the poor - too bad you don't understand the ideology that you have taken part in - or you wouldn't blast genuine concern for the less advantaged peoples - no matter when they're discussed.  Besides - the Palestinian occupation often comes up when discussing other issues - making it, if you will a side issue.  But these silly charges of 'getting off topic' mask a recalitrance to really discuss issues to their extent and come to some logical prescience.  Too bad, that tendency of yours...and ironic that you accuse me of 'side issues' while eschewing legitimate discussion.



-------------
Bruce
Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.


Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 07 September 2005 at 10:38am

B: But Sasha, when you suggest you know 'anyone and everyone WORTH KNOWING', yes, I have great reservations about such a comment.  In my country - everyone is worth knowing, all have the opportunity to rise from nothing to be great and many, many do - thus everyone is worth knowing...perhaps, when you get past this outmoded idea that only some are worth knowing, you may be able to get off your high horse occasionally...
I live and go by my own culture.
The day I ask to be let into your country, I will begin to live by your country�s norms. (No chance yet of that)

I am never on any high horse. I am a very straight, at times, a blunt man. It�s just that I find war promotion and the Neo Con lies out of taste. Plus, we don't take ferengi occupations lying down. Time + the end of petroleum will make you learn that.

B: Elections are much better than the alternative - perhaps with your communist party involvement over the years - that has been de-emphasized - for evident reasons.

Then why don�t we promote democracy, in a straight, simple honest manner? Instead of holding elections as an after thought to legitimise occupations through proven CIA operatives?

B: Absolutely, and so are many, even most Americans - too bad you're such and agenda, driven racist wonk against Americans...sort of pathetic really...to condemn an entire nation willy nilly, as you do..
Anyone who tries to force their own ways and beliefs on others is the practical racist. Are you a democracy? Do you hold the choice to elect your leader? Just look what you have re-elected?

B: "The point at hand" according to Sasha and according to Sasha only...you're the one accusing me of getting off point - but you never prove any of your myriad of specious accusations - beginning with the supposed Newsweek articles proving the retraction of the retraction - why should we believe any of your charges and allegations in the light of your record so far?

Are you seriously trying to tell us that the desecration of the Qur'an never took place? Specially after giving us some percentage statstics of the occurance in one of your own posts? However hard you jump, its effect on the Muslim perception lies bare before us and also before your President.

B: Besides - the Palestinian occupation often comes up when discussing other issues

Palestinian Occupation came up ONLY and WHEN you had persistently tried to shoo it of the discussion. You had brought those Karachi and Rio kids in to belittle Palestinian occupation. Or, perhaps, out of some other occupation phobia



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