The Sahaaba part 2
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Topic: The Sahaaba part 2
Posted By: asda
Subject: The Sahaaba part 2
Date Posted: 04 October 2008 at 3:23pm
Salaams...
i wanted to know what do u all think:
was H.Abu Talib (a.s) the Father of Imam Ali (a.s) a Muslim???
wsalaam
regards
Asda
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Replies:
Posted By: Saladin
Date Posted: 06 October 2008 at 1:45am
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Salaam,
In the seerahs i've read, its reported that he declined to believe. Allah knows best.
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'Trust everyone but not the devil in them'
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Posted By: asda
Date Posted: 13 October 2008 at 9:56am
Allah says in surah Al Nisa- Verses 139 and 144
Those who take the unbelievers for guardians rather than believers.
Do they seek honor for them ? Then surely all honor is for Allah.
O you who believe ! do not take the unbelievers as protectors instead of than believers; do you desire that you should give to Allah a manifest proof against yourselves ?
This is a Mecci Surah, where the above verses advise the believers not to take unbelievers as helpers or protectors. How could the Prophet get help from an unbeliever if we assume Abu Talib is unbeliever?!
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Posted By: Saladin
Date Posted: 21 October 2008 at 7:08am
Prophet Muhammad did not take Abu Talib as a guardian rather Abu Talib took to protect his nephew. The only protector the Prophet chose was Allah.
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'Trust everyone but not the devil in them'
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Posted By: asda
Date Posted: 21 October 2008 at 8:45am
there is no evidence that Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w) moved away from the guardianship of H.Abu Talib in his life time....PLEASE DONT FORGET: it is a surity that this verse was revealed after Prophet (s.a.w) was 40+...and at this anybody can live independently...but the PROPHET DID NOT CHOOSE THIS OPTION...WAS HE DISOBEYING ALLAH (s.w.t) (maazallah)?????
secondly Prophet (s.a.w) chose H.Abu Talib his PROTECTOR WEN HE LIVED IN "SHAIB E ABI TALIB" wen the makkans had bycotted them...again i ask the same question above.....
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Posted By: Saladin
Date Posted: 24 October 2008 at 9:22am
Whether AbuTalib was a believer or not, there was no reason for the Prophet to move away from him. AbuTalib took care of the Prophet when he was orphaned as a child and treated him like a son. Your interpretation of 4:139,144 is flawed. Most of the early muslims lived with their unbelieving families. I dont think anyone of them abandoned their relatives because of these verses.
Coming to the point, it doent matter for a muslim's faith whether AbuTalib was a believer or not. Allah knows best. Its better to leave it at that rather than deciding on something only Allah knows. You're deciding who were believers and who went on to disbelieve. Thats not right . Leave it to Allah, He knows best.
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'Trust everyone but not the devil in them'
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Posted By: asda
Date Posted: 24 October 2008 at 12:48pm
the discussion of the sahaaba is relevent because they are the people who actually helped the Prophet (a.s) and the ahlel bayt (a.s) to spread the religion.... if the truth is not identified, then one can have a flawed source of information of Islam....
if i have given a wrong interpretation, then what do u think is the right interpretation of this verse??? enlighten me if i am wrong.....
atleast one has to believe that the Protection of the Prophet (a.s) was his own choice at shaib e abi talib....
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Posted By: Friendship
Date Posted: 24 October 2008 at 2:53pm
Assalamu alaikumC
The discussion of the sahaaba is relevent because they are the people
who actually helped the Prophet (a.s) and the ahlel bayt (a.s) to
spread the religion.... if the truth is not identified, then one can
have a flawed source of information of Islam....
Answer: If it is important to discus above the Sahabas. Equally, it is most most important for one to be careful and always remember what the holy Prophet said about them. He said, "Do not subb (abuse, ridicule, dishonour) my Sahabas. Anybody who maltreats them has maltreated me". I do not undertand why Asad you are concerned with the ahl-beit? Did not Allah said, "That was a nation who has passed away. They shall receive the reward of what they earned and you of what you earn. And you will not be asked of what they used to do". We have more problem than them. Let us address our problem! No Islamic country has a Khalifa! Why?
Abu Talib did indeed believed. Read The Life of Muhammad by A. Guillaume (1987 edition), Pp 160,170. Qardawi said in his book Kaifa nata'allamu bil Qur'an, ( or in another book), "Any one who says that Abu Talib did not believe should give proof of his disbelief (or should tell his sins). How old was Abu Talib when the Mission was started? At that age who would be to comprehend? When does dementia starts? Abu Talib did Allah IOntended him to do. He saved Muhammad and never allowed him to be harmed. May Allah reward him for that! Have you ever watched the Message by Mustapha Aqad?
Friendship.
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Posted By: Saladin
Date Posted: 25 October 2008 at 9:03am
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Surah An Nisa was revealed at Madinah. Look at what the surah is about - Marriage, inheritance, issues related to salat during war, the hypocrites, etc; basically a code of laws. This surah was revealed to the new Islamic state in Madinah; not in Makkah.
Take a look at the verses you gave along with the verses preceding and following those verses.
4:137 Those who believe, then reject faith, then believe (again) and (again) reject faith, and go on increasing in unbelief,- Allah will not forgive them nor guide them nor guide them on the way.
4:138
To the Hypocrites give the glad tidings that there is for them (but) a grievous penalty;-
4:139
Yea, to those who take for friends unbelievers rather than believers: is it honour they seek among them? Nay,- all honour is with Allah.
4:140
Already has He sent you Word in the Book, that when ye hear the signs of Allah held in defiance and ridicule, ye are not to sit with them unless they turn to a different theme: if ye did, ye would be like them. For Allah will collect the hypocrites and those who defy faith - all in Hell:-
4:141
(These are) the ones who wait and watch about you: if ye do gain a victory from Allah, they say: "Were we not with you?"- but if the unbelievers gain a success, they say (to them): "Did we not gain an advantage over you, and did we not guard you from the believers?" but Allah will judge betwixt you on the Day of Judgment. And never will Allah grant to the unbelievers a way (to triumphs) over the believers.
4:142
The Hypocrites - they think they are over-reaching Allah, but He will over-reach them: When they stand up to prayer, they stand without earnestness, to be seen of men, but little do they hold Allah in remembrance;
4:143
(They are) distracted in mind even in the midst of it,- being (sincerely) for neither one group nor for another whom Allah leaves straying,- never wilt thou find for him the way.
4:144
O ye who believe! Take not for friends unbelievers rather than believers: Do ye wish to offer Allah an open proof against yourselves?
4:145
The Hypocrites will be in the lowest depths of the Fire: no helper wilt thou find for them;-
These verses were revealed to the Muslims at Madinah about the hypocrites who chose unbelievers as their allies/friends.
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'Trust everyone but not the devil in them'
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Posted By: asda
Date Posted: 25 October 2008 at 12:06pm
i apologise for misquoting the verse...may Allah (s.w.t) forgive my mistake...
br. friendship..alhamd atleast we are square on this issue....actually i wanted to see what is generally accepted....
there are many other evidences for those who are not satisfied with br.friendship's words...
The Holy Prophet says in a hadith (joining his two fingers): "I and the supporter of the orphan are together in Paradise like these two fingers."
Ibn Abi'l-Hadid also has reported this hadith in his Sharh-e-Nahju'l-Balagha, vol.IV, p.312, where he says that it is obvious that the Holy Prophets statement does not mean all supporters of orphans, since the supporters of orphans could be sinners. So the Holy Prophet meant by it Abu Talib and his distinguished grandfather, Abdu'l-Muttalib, who looked after the Holy Prophet. The Holy Prophet was known in Mecca as the yatim (orphan) of Abu Talib because after the passing away of Abdu'l-Muttalib, the Prophet, from the age of eight, had been in the care of Abu Talib.
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