Muslim Ghettoisation
Printed From: IslamiCity.org
Category: Politics
Forum Name: World Politics
Forum Description: World Politics
URL: https://www.islamicity.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12754
Printed Date: 23 April 2024 at 10:12pm
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Topic: Muslim Ghettoisation
Posted By: Iftikhar
Subject: Muslim Ghettoisation
Date Posted: 06 July 2008 at 10:11am
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Muslim Ghettoisation We live in a shrunken world and millions of people are on the move; one of our biggest challenges is how we learn to live in proximity to difference � different skin colours, different beliefs and different way of life. According to a study by COMPAS, Muslims born and educated were given the impression of outsiders. The perception among Muslims is that they are unwelcome in A City or a locality, where Muslims are in majority is a ghetto. There is a tendency for people of similar backgrounds to live together in neighourhoods. The term�ghettoisation� is inappropriate. The original ghettos in Immigrants are the creators of It is often quoted by the Western media that Muslim schools ghettoizse the children, and even lead to their radicalisation if they are not integrated. There is no evidence that faith schools lead to a �ghettoized education system. In British schools, pupils are encouraged to focus too much on their similarities rather than their differences. The integrationist approach merely results in Muslims feeling that their faith, language and culture is not respected. Iftikhar Ahmad http://www.londonschoolofislamics.org.uk - www.londonschoolofislamics.org.uk |
Replies:
Posted By: aspacia
Date Posted: 15 July 2008 at 2:42pm
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Often Muslim Imams perpetuate this by insisting that Muslims not assimilate. Even CAIR has called for Muslims not to assimilate, else they be tainted.
------------- Curious |
Posted By: semar
Date Posted: 15 July 2008 at 3:11pm
Please provide a prove that CAIR called for Muslims not to assimilate. Please make suere the prove not come from "bias" media/source or unknown media/source. ------------- Salam/Peace, Semar "We are people who do not eat until we are hungry and do not eat to our fill." (Prophet Muhammad PBUH) "1/3 of your stomach for food, 1/3 for water, 1/3 for air" |
aspacia wrote:Posted By: Iftikhar
Date Posted: 15 July 2008 at 3:14pm
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Salaam London School of Islamics is an educational Trust. Its aim is to make British public, institutions and media aware of the needs and demands of the Muslim community in the field of education and possible solutions. Slough Islamic school Trust Slough had a seminar on Muslim education and schools in Thames Valley Atheltic Centre. The seminar was addressed by the education spokesman of MCB. I could not attend the seminar but I believe lot of Muslims from Slough and surrounding areas must have attended. Very soon, the Muslims of Slough will have a state funded Muslim school but there is a need for more schools. A day will come when all Muslim children will attend state funded Muslim schools with bilingual Muslim teachers as role model. Muslim schools are not only faith schools but they are more or less bilingual schools. Bilingual Muslim children need to learn standard English to follow the National Curriculum and go for higher studies and research to serve humanity. They need to be well versed in Arabic to recite and understand the Holy Quran. They need to be well versed in Urdu and other community languages to keep in touch with their cultural roots and enjoy the beauty of their literature and poetry. Bilingualism is an asset but the British schooling regards it as a problem. A Muslim is a citizen of this tiny global village. He/she does not want to become notoriously monolingual Brit. Pakistan is only seven hours from London and majority of British Muslims are from Pakistan. More than third of British Muslim have no qualifications. British school system has been failing large number of Muslims children for the last 60 years. Muslim scholars see the pursuit of knowledge as a duty, with the Quran containing several verses to the rewards of learning. 33% of British Muslims of working age have no qualifications and Muslims are also the least likely to have degrees or equivalent qualifications. Most of estimated 500,000 Muslim school-aged pupils in England and Wales are educated in the state system with non-Muslim monolingual teachers. Majority of them are underachievers because they are at a wrong place at a wrong time. Bilingual Muslim children need state funded Muslim schools with bilingual Muslim teachers during their developmental periods. There is no place for a non-Muslim child or a teacher in a Muslim school. As far as higher education is concerned, Muslim students can be educated with others. Let Muslim community educate its own children so that they can develop their own Islamic, cultural and linguistic identities and become usefull members of the British society rather than becoming a buden. We are living in an English speaking country and English is an international language, therefore, we want our children to learn and be well versed in standard English and at the same time well versed in Arabic, Urdu and other community languages. Is there anything wrong with this approach? It is not only the Muslim community who would like to send their children to Muslim school. Sikh and Hindu communities have started setting up their schools. Last week. British Black Community has planned the first all black school with Black teachers in Birmingham. Scotland's first state funded Muslim school could get the go-ahead within months after First Munister Alex Salmond declared he was sympathetic towards the needs and demands of the Muslim community. |
Posted By: aspacia
Date Posted: 15 July 2008 at 3:56pm
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It is from a VERY BIASED MEDIA SOURCE, who won a legal case against CAIR. Take a look a anti-Cair, and the comments made by CAIR, its officials, and U.S. liberal politicians (i.e. Durban, et al.) Yes, many media sources are very biased; regardless, they often support their claims with solid evidence. Faith and Freedom often misquotes, omits, or just totally distorts information. However, anti-Cair is very careful not to post any evidence, but valid facts, else Whitehead will be sued again. Also, Al-Ahram, is very biased, especially Khalid Amarah (sp), however, he does support his claims with facts, just as other "journalists" on this site do, but with numerous omissions and distortions. Our job is to be intelligent enough to sift through the garbage for the kernels of fact.  ------------- Curious |
Posted By: aspacia
Date Posted: 15 July 2008 at 4:10pm
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member_profile.asp?PF=53593&FID=52 - Iftikhar , According to your logic, Saudi Arabia should accommodate Christian, Jewish, Buddhist, Pagan, Shinto, et. al also. What is good for the goose is good for the gander. When you immigrate to another land, try not to expect this new land to accommodate its guest; the guest accommodates its host, accepts its rules, or politely leaves: (admin: link was removed) |
Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 19 July 2008 at 9:38pm
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Often Muslim Imams perpetuate this by insisting that Muslims not assimilate.
Really? How many Muslim Imams have you observed?
It would have been a wee matured or just simply a bit wiser to say that it's something cultural. "Ethnocentricism" is quite a known phenomenon. It takes place all over the world. It's not merely some Muslim Centric-Imam-Induced disorder like everythng else wrong in our world seems to have become.
It's not that just the Indians and Pakistanis stick close to their own lot in the United Kingdom despite all the kindness shown by their host. The Brits living in Spain do exactly the same. Our pobre Amrekanos can't fire at those pobre starved Iraqis unless they have their own ghetto, complete with a McDonalds in their base camp!
It's all a part of our primitive herd feeling.
We are barking at the Imams because we just need to bark at something. ------------- Sasha Khanzadeh |
Posted By: Salams_wife
Date Posted: 19 July 2008 at 10:16pm
For one thing, why would Saudi accomodate people of other faiths that only come to work in Saudi. Those people are not citizens. In fact, very few people in Saudi are not muslims so there isn't enough to accomodate in the first place.
I have also seen how Americans in other countries often live as close to a lifestyle as possible in other countries with other cultures. The Brittish are the same in this regard as well. What you are saying is muslims must assimilate, but Christians and other western people do not have to when they go somewhere different. What is wrong with someone wanting to practice their faith and culture so long as they are productive members of the society where they live?
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Posted By: Iftikhar
Date Posted: 20 July 2008 at 2:22am
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Salaam It is not Islam and Muslims who are creating problems, actually it is British society creating problems for the Muslim community. The Muslim community has been vicitm of Paki-bashing in all walks of life by the British society and Establishment for the last 60 years. Now it is vicitm of terrorism by the British Establishment. Thousands of Muslim youth are being serched in the streets and hundreds of them are behind the bar without any trial. State schools with non-Muslim monolingual teachers are not suitable for Muslim children. This is the reason why majority of them leave schools with low grades. God has created diverse human beings to live in this tiny global villageas of one family. Creation by its very nature is deverse with different species, different communities, different cultures and languages. These differences represent the beauty and wonder but diversity is sometimes not fully appreciated, resulting in all sorts of clashes. The British society and Establishment must learn to respect and accommodate others, as if in a family. A Muslim is a citizen of this tiny global village. He/she does not want to become notoriously monolingual Brit. He/she is supposed to be well versed in standard English, Arabic, Urdu and other community languages, to be part of the Britisah society, as well as proud of his.her cultural roots and enjoy the beauty of his/her literature and poetry |
Posted By: aspacia
Date Posted: 20 July 2008 at 9:43am
I have often written to Islamic religious scholars regarding certain claims. For example, is it true that the recent Sura's supercede previous Sura's? No response. Why no answer?
True, but why immigrate to another land, if you do not want to assimilate as guests in your new home? Learn the language, culture, what is appropriate, what foods are allowed. Heck, my mom made me take a year of French, and insisted I peruse a French etiquette book before we traveled there. Put your bread on the table, not the plate; eat slowly, and do not clean your plate.
Funny, I do not tend to bark, only humiliate. Also, remember, westerners tend to bark regarding most issues, and religious tenets. That is called Freedom of Speech, but it is not legal to promote violence. People screamed about Buchannon wanting Chavez assassinated. He was even threated with a lawsuit, and had to apologize. How often do you rail against religious calls to violence? Also, in my profession, I must mix with peers, and  students from around the world. ------------- Curious |
Posted By: aspacia
Date Posted: 20 July 2008 at 10:04am
Nothing is wrong with practicing one's faith, and celebrating one's culture. Mum's British, and celebrates the 4th of July with a huge pool party, but underneath Old Glory, hangs the flag of St. George. She respects our laws and norms. Respect is a two way street. ------------- Curious |
Posted By: aspacia
Date Posted: 20 July 2008 at 10:22am
I would leave.
I am monolingual, lost most of my French and German, does this make me "not-suitable?" No, the children need to learn the language of the land, and not expect the host country to adjust to their needs. The numerous immigrants that come to the U.S. are expected to learn the language, and adjust to our culture, not vice-versa.
Here we disagree, you are the guests who should adjust, not vice-versa. I smoke, but when I go to a nonsmokers home, I do not smoke because I respect their rules.
True enough, but he/she might be more accepted if he/she becomes fluent in the language. What you seem to claim, is that you do not want to be British, and understand British heritage? This is part of the problem that causes resentment among the British population. The West provides a K-12 education because the more educated the population, the better the society will be. Learn the other languages, and your heritage, but also learn the host's language and heritage. Respect the people and the laws of the land, but do not expect special privileges. ------------- Curious |
Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 20 July 2008 at 10:42am
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It is not Islam and Muslims who are creating problems, actually it is British society creating problems for the Muslim community. My brother, we have to be fair in blame distribution. We will have to accept the fact that our hosts have shown a very broad shoulder in accepting not just the numbers, but, primarily, a very raw quality of arrivals from the subcontinent.
I wonder if you could list the problems that "the Britsh Society" is producing for you? My experience is that our folks inhibit any contact with the locals and it starts early in the school years. This inhibition continues and, in most cases, it grows more severe in later years. How many Asian kids have British or, for that matter, even Polish, Italian or other European friends?
The isolation, this inhibition takes place through our own "ethnocentricism", via our own cultural arrogance, which makes us feel as if shalwaar was something personally designed by the Creator!
Our parents, mother in special, promote this isolation for securing madre's younger sister's daughter's future through a marital tie with her son. This gets upset if he is allowed to find out that the locals (we call them foreigners in our daily use lingo!) are as, if not more, human as our neighbour from Dadyal or some girl we know from Sialkot.
On the whole, our hosts have put up far more than what we would have put up had they found their way into our homelands even in far smaller numbers. The Brits are, genarally, a very fair and kind people. They have placed all the facilities at our end and yet we, sometimes, blow their legs away by bombing their trains and buses.
We ghetoise and create the sadness of a broken society.
The Muslim community has been vicitm of Paki-bashing in all walks of life by the British society and Establishment for the last 60 years. Now it is
vicitm of terrorism by the British Establishment. Thousands of Muslim youth are being serched in the streets and hundreds of them are behind the bar without any trial. Yaar'em, I have no idea where you live in the UK, but here in Manchester the Pakistanis hold the top drug dealers record. Shall we compute the Card abuse or other criminal sting figures of just this ethnic group?
Though, I wouldn't name her, but a world famous barrister who had tutelage with Tony and Cherie blair and has worked on international cases with Hilary Clinton, once told me that she used to take on cases of Pakistanis just out of her Lahore affiliation. She gave up because her experience is that a Pakistan will rather tell a lie and go in for 7 years hard labour than tell the truth and go scot free!
She explained the reason for this behaviour. It's cultural, our lot is brought up in forced marriages of intense family political soap operas. Mothers keep grooming their youngsters about to what to say and what not to say in front of specified set of relations. Certain quarters of the family are supposed to be excluded from certain realities.
We live in our our world of Bollywood or Lollywood fantasies.
We exclude the host communities from our lives. ------------- Sasha Khanzadeh |
Posted By: aspacia
Date Posted: 20 July 2008 at 10:54am
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Yes Whisper. As you mentioned earlier, this is ethnocentrism, and we all suffer from this. I am doing my best, and may be utterly failing, to understand. LOL, we have multicultural day, we have Christian, Islamic, Jewish, Pagan, Buddhist speakers on campus, and this includes various foods and costumes from the various cultures. LOL, a Samoan teacher brought his drums, and the students presented a Samoan dance. Keep on attempting to break the walls down Whisper  I am trying to do the same from my end.Also, keep in mind that I critique all faiths, not just Islam. I recently exchanged several emails with a Rabbi regarding his misleading claim, and still interpret Exodus differently than he does. ------------- Curious |
Posted By: Chrysalis
Date Posted: 29 July 2008 at 12:35pm
Just because you wrote to certain scholars - and didnt get a response does not mean they didnt have an answer etc. I have written to many myself - and seldom recieved an answer. That has more to do with the time and resource constraints - since scholars are flooded with questions everyday. So what? ------------- "O Lord, forgive me, my parents and Muslims in the Hereafter. O Lord, show mercy on them as they showed mercy to me when I was young." |
Posted By: Chrysalis
Date Posted: 29 July 2008 at 12:57pm
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[QUOTE=aspacia] QUOTE]
Although I do not condone everything that that the Saudi government does. . . one cannot compare Saudia Arabia with USA/UK (or anyother country) in this regard. Since Saudia Arabia is a hub of Muslims who go there for pilgrimage, the govt has to undertake EXTRA precautions to keep the country free from bid'aat i.e. innovations and any external religous influence that may interfere with the pilgrimage. That is like comparing Pakistan with the Vatican City. Places that are a hub of worship and worshippers have to take extra precautions and measures.
There are NUMEROUS muslim-majority nations in the world, yes. . . there are others apart from Afghanistan and Saudia Arabia. MOST of them are very tolerant to non-muslims and thier beliefs. And they happily coexist.
USA on the other hand prides itself on its multi-cultural, multi-ethnic heritage. It is a land of the 'Immigrant'. . . they cannot apply rules on others that they themselves did not follow. The same courtesy of 'ethnicty' and heritage needs to be extended to the muslim immigrants as well. As for UK - the British never tried to assimilate, but kept a cool distance themselves. . .
Having said that . . . I also believe Muslims should also not have undue expectations of the host country and not out-grow thier welcome. I dont understand why some muslims feel the undue need to force changes - Islam is a very simple way of life, with no complications. . . . there is no need to create a mini-version of thier hometown in every country around the world. . . .especially under the brand of Islam. There has to be a compromise and negotitations - 0n both sides.
Unless the host country is infringing rights. . . there is no need to create a fuss over every issue. . . and create ill-feelings. If the host-country is willing to accept our demands/suggestions - then alhamdulilah. . . wonderful! But if not. . . .move on. Islam provides us with almost all answers on how to live amongst non-muslims and proper ettiquette. One can function perfectly fine in a nonmuslim society . . . Islam is not difficult.
------------- "O Lord, forgive me, my parents and Muslims in the Hereafter. O Lord, show mercy on them as they showed mercy to me when I was young." |
Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 19 August 2008 at 1:27pm
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One can function perfectly fine in a nonmuslim society . . . Islam is not difficult.
It's such a broad fresher edition of a concept of civilised conduct, it's original unadultrated version was meant for complete co-existence. It's sad that some Private Contractors fitted out their very own limited editions with bugs! ------------- Sasha Khanzadeh |