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The Qur�an on Clouds

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Topic: The Qur�an on Clouds
Posted By: Truth_light24
Subject: The Qur�an on Clouds
Date Posted: 26 May 2008 at 3:29am

Scientists have studied cloud types and have realized that rain clouds are formed and shaped according to definite systems and certain steps connected with certain types of wind and clouds. One kind of rain cloud is the cumulonimbus cloud.  Meteorologists have studied how cumulonimbus clouds are formed and how they produce rain, hail, and lightning. They have found that cumulonimbus clouds go through the following steps to produce rain:

1)  The clouds are pushed by the wind: Cumulonimbus clouds begin to form when wind pushes some small pieces of clouds (cumulus clouds) to an area where these clouds

2)   Joining: Then the small clouds join together forming a larger cloud.

3)  Stacking:  When  the  small  clouds  join  together,  updrafts within the larger cloud increase. The updrafts near the center of the cloud are stronger than those near the edges. These updrafts cause the cloud body to grow vertically, so the cloud is stacked up. This vertical growth causes the cloud body to stretch into cooler regions of the atmosphere, where drops of water and hail formulate and begin to grow larger and larger.  When these drops of water and hail become too heavy for the updrafts to support them, they begin to fall from the cloud as rain, hail, etc.

God has said in the Qur�an:

        Have you not seen how God makes the clouds move gently, then joins them together, then makes them into a stack, and then you see the rain come out of it... . (Qur�an, 24:43)

Meteorologists have only recently come to know these details of cloud formation, structure, and function by using advanced equipment like planes, satellite, computers, balloons, and other.



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And those who annoy believing men and women undeservedly, bear (on themselves) a calumny and a glaring sin. Quran33:59



Replies:
Posted By: martha
Date Posted: 26 May 2008 at 6:04am
I love clouds......Smile

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some of us are a lot like cement:- all mixed up and permanently set


Posted By: Israfil
Date Posted: 26 May 2008 at 1:23pm

Meteorologists have only recently come to know these details of cloud formation, structure, and function by using advanced equipment like planes, satellite, computers, balloons, and other.

I'd like you to prove this



Posted By: Truth_light24
Date Posted: 26 May 2008 at 5:28pm

The Quran were revealed to the prophet 1400 or so years ago and technology and advances were only been known few years after the revelation of the Quran to the Prophet.

 

The first (artificial) satellite to be invented by the Russian which were called Sputnik 1 was on October 4, 1957

The first plane to be invented were in 1899 by the Wilbur Wright and almost all were invented in the year 1800.

Israfil, you can make your own research to satisfy your doubt. I believe in all that was written in the Quran 100%, I dont doubt it and I dont have to prove anything because no matter what people say about the Quran, it is the aunthentic words of Allah and He knows everything that happens and will happens because He is the Creator of all that exists.


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And those who annoy believing men and women undeservedly, bear (on themselves) a calumny and a glaring sin. Quran33:59


Posted By: Truth_light24
Date Posted: 26 May 2008 at 5:32pm

I love clouds too sis Martha, it has many forms and sometimes it amazes me looking at it, How Mighty Allah is, sobhanallah. He created all this for us to enjoy and benefit from.


I love to walk in the rain too�Wink like what most kids do..LOL 



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And those who annoy believing men and women undeservedly, bear (on themselves) a calumny and a glaring sin. Quran33:59


Posted By: Ron Webb
Date Posted: 26 May 2008 at 7:20pm

clouds move gently...
Ooh, now there's a revelation!Big%20smile

clouds join together...
No they don't.  Clouds form, and clouds disperse.  To join together, at least one of them would have to be moving against the wind.

clouds "stack"...
Well, they can change altitude, and they can grow vertically, but what exactly does "stack" mean?

rain comes from clouds...
Yeah, science is only now beginning to recognize the relationship between clouds and rain.LOL



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Addeenul �Aql � Religion is intellect.


Posted By: Israfil
Date Posted: 26 May 2008 at 8:37pm
Truth_Light as much as you like think I am against you I am not.
 
 
I'm merely challenging your claim that meterologist have now recently understood cloud formation. This has nothing to do with challenging Quranic revelation. whenever you make a claim you must support it. Using Anecdotal statements does not necessitate that is true. Although I do agree the study of meterology and its advancements of studies are quite recent there have been previous pioneers of studying clouds in the early 1800's (See: Luke Howard) and even further than that.
 
Just because the mentioning of clouds in the Qur'an some +1,500 years does not discount science, it only means that there was an account of the activity of the visible mass of droplets (e.g. clouds). I am merely asking you to prove that only now meterologist have recently understood clouds. Remember you are discounting the studies of researchers before the actual creation of meterology. Many ancient Greeks way before Muhammad even existed studied the sciences. This is not me denying the Qur'an, this is me critiquing one part of your statement. How does this all of a sudden lead to me critiquing the Qur'an? Don't make make statements if you cannot back them up.


Posted By: Truth_light24
Date Posted: 26 May 2008 at 9:16pm

Ronn, check this out Smile

Smile
According to the scientists today:

"Water vaporizes from the oceans and rivers forming tiny clouds. The small clouds join together and the updrafts within the larger cloud increase. The updrafts closer to the center are stronger, because they are protected from the cooling effects by the outer portion of the cloud.

These updrafts cause the cloud body to grow vertically, so they could is stacked up. This vertical growth causes the cloud body to stretch into cooler regions of the atmosphere where drops of water and hail formulate and begin to grow larger and larger. When these drops of water and hail become too heavy for the updrafts to support them, they begin to fall from the cloud as rain, hail, etc." (from "The Atmosphere" p. 269 and "Elements of Meteorology" pp. 141-142)

{"Have you not seen how God makes the clouds move gently, then joins them together, then makes them into a stack, and then you see the rain come out of it..."} (Qur'an 24:43)

Meteorologists have only recently come to know these details of cloud formation, structure, and function by using advanced equipment like planes, satellites, computers, balloons, and other equipment to study wind and its direction, to measure humidity and its variations, and to determine the levels and variations of atmospheric pressure.

{"... And He sends down hail from mountains (clouds) in the sky, and He strikes with it whomever He wills, and turns it from whomever He wills. The vivid flash of its lightning nearly blinds the sight."} (Qur'an 24:43)

Meteorologists have found that these cumlonimbus clouds, that shower hail, reach a height of 25,000 to 30,000 ft. (4.7 to 5.7 miles) like mountains, as the Qur'an says;


{"...And He sends down hail from mountains (clouds) in the sky..."}

This discovery were just found out recently after advance equipment were invented such as satellite, computers and all apparatus the scientist used to prove their theories. And all this facilities being used for their discoveries were invented after the revelation of the Quran.

Theory of Aristotle (1600 AD) :

The atmosphere contains two kinds of exhalation, moist and dry. He also said that thunder is the sound of the collision of the dry exhalation with the neighboring clouds, and lightning is the inflaming and burning of the dry exhalation with a thin and faint fire. (Works of Aristotle Translated into English pp. 369 a&b)

STACKED UP means PILED UP or HEAPED UP


Smile



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And those who annoy believing men and women undeservedly, bear (on themselves) a calumny and a glaring sin. Quran33:59


Posted By: Israfil
Date Posted: 26 May 2008 at 9:48pm
Truth_Light again, you have not proven anything. Also, please cite your work it helps when referencing your sources.
 
Of course God will reveal to the prophet his signs. Many pagan Arabs in his time were ignorant of God's influence over nature, but I'm still having trouble understanding what your main point is with science. You said "according to scientist today" but what does that mean? Are you talking about current scientist or are you talking about previous scientist? In this case please be specific.


Posted By: Truth_light24
Date Posted: 26 May 2008 at 10:08pm

It means that the Quran have said it long before the scientist have discovered it! Do I need to spell out the obvious?? Why in the world would I compare what the science says about the formation of cloud and that of what Allah said in the Quran??Disapprove



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And those who annoy believing men and women undeservedly, bear (on themselves) a calumny and a glaring sin. Quran33:59


Posted By: Israfil
Date Posted: 26 May 2008 at 10:50pm

I'm speaking in the context you are using. Ok it is mentioned in the Quran long before scientist, and your point? Scientist have never said they discovered cloud formation today or has made some revelation about clouds.



Posted By: Ron Webb
Date Posted: 27 May 2008 at 4:21pm

Originally posted by Truth_light24 Truth_light24 wrote:

Ronn, check this out...
According to the scientists today:

(It's "Ron", by the way)  I'd love to check it out, but you haven't provided your source.  Which scientist wrote that?  When, and where?

Quote Theory of Aristotle (1600 AD) :

Aristotle was a philosopher, not a scientist, and he lived circa 350 BCE, not 1600 AD).  A thousand years before Muhammad.

Quote STACKED UP means PILED UP or HEAPED UP

And the essential point about piles and heaps is that the upper parts are supported by the lower parts.  Not a good description of clouds, which can't support anything and don't need support themselves.  It doesn't make sense to talk about a pile or heap of clouds.



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Addeenul �Aql � Religion is intellect.


Posted By: Truth_light24
Date Posted: 28 May 2008 at 7:02am

Well, I am not astounded if you all act this way, no matter what the Quran says you wont believe in it and keep on disbelieving, rejecting and mocking it..it�s not news to me. Quran is the only authentic word of Allah whether you believe it or not and it does talk about everything, present and past  and it�s not surprising for He is the Creator of all that exists.

I will try to post here all the scientific miracles in the Quran I could find and if you believe it or not�that�s your choice�your challenges for me to �prove it� will just be ignored..the proof is there, what proof you want me to show?? Am not a scientist in the first place, I read the article, believe in it and share it the MUSLIMS..Smile About the description of clouds, its how your scientist explained it Ronn, they use it to prove their theory, but their theory on how the rain, hail, thunder and lightening were formed are RIGHT or TRUE- thats what Allah says in the Quran..Smile






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And those who annoy believing men and women undeservedly, bear (on themselves) a calumny and a glaring sin. Quran33:59


Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 28 May 2008 at 5:46pm
As'Salamu Alaikum,
 
 
Israfil check this link, and down you shall find references to it.
 
 
http://www.islam-guide.com/frm-ch1-1-g.htm - http://www.islam-guide.com/frm-ch1-1-g.htm
 


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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: �All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."


Posted By: Israfil
Date Posted: 28 May 2008 at 6:27pm
Truth_Light here is the low down how I perceive your remarks. I think you are self-righteous, over asserting that you believe in the Qur'an and God when nobody here is challenging you on that notion. I also think you are unable to commence in  dialogue correctly because when I ask for your reference you lack it, and then challenge me on the basis that I'm disagreeing with the Qur'an.
 
Did you find anywhere in my posts where I outright rejected what the Qur'an is saying? Have I said I disbelieved in what Allah says in the Qur'an or what Muhammad says? I'd challenge you to find that here or anywhere in my posts. If you can't, then you need to read threads a lot better and carefully state your opinions that are accurate. As far as what you lay down I am merely challenging your statement that modern scientist have just discovered how clouds work. Cloud studies have long been studied way before the prophet Muhammad by the philosophers and those learned individuals of the sciences. I am not saying what god wrote is untrue in the Qur'an because that would be ridiculous, but your beginning statement which is presumably meant to reject the value of science by merely showing  in the Qur'an 'God said it first' type of thing.
 
Well, I am not astounded if you all act this way, no matter what the Quran says you wont believe in it and keep on disbelieving, rejecting and mocking\
 
 
But who is mocking it? I have not mocked anything, nor have I said I disbelieved what you said. I challenge one specific thing you stated in your opinion. Unless you are referring to Ron you should address those issues with him.
 
"your challenges for me to �prove it� will just be ignored"
 
Then stop making generalizations about scientist and about science if you cannot handle criticism. If you have any rational sense "Truth_Light" you would know that people who are skeptical of the Qur'an anyway will not review Quranic material and suddenly "believers" it doesn't work that way sometimes. My main issue with your brief statement was its overgeneralization. It is obvious you ar enot using your rational mechanism the one God gave you by reading what I wrote. If you said" you didn't know" I'd respect you more than simply discounting a small critique of what you said. The thing I found paramount to all this is:
 
 "Am not a scientist in the first place"
 
That is the most important thing here. You ar enot. You don't know squat about meterology. Although I commend you for your faith in the Creator and in God's word I do not like threads where your thesis is about discounting science and scientific methods because I am apart of that community just like I'm apart of the Muslim community. there is a reason why God gave human beings, the sciences.
 
Seekshidayath,
 
Thank you for your link. I am quite aware of the Qur'an on clouds and its formation. But the link you provided was a very good though. thank you.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


Posted By: Ron Webb
Date Posted: 28 May 2008 at 7:30pm
Originally posted by seekshidayath seekshidayath wrote:

As'Salamu Alaikum,
 
 
Israfil check this link, and down you shall find references to it.
 
 
http://www.islam-guide.com/frm-ch1-1-g.htm - http://www.islam-guide.com/frm-ch1-1-g.htm
 
 
Thank you, seekshidayath.  Finally we have a (alleged) source for these statements.  Two, in fact: The Atmosphere, Anthes and others, pp. 268-269, and Elements of Meteorology, Miller and Thompson, p. 141.
 
To be blunt, I don't believe that these books are being accurately quoted.  The books are over twenty years old and it will be difficult to track down a print copy, but I will try.  Meanwhile, Google Books has snippets of the Miller and Thompson book, and you can search for words and phrases in it.
 
I searched for "small clouds" and came up empty.  The phrase does not appear in the book anywhere.  I searched for "joined together", and this is what I got on page 141:
It is not usual that isolated convective "cells" of this sort can be identified; normally, there is a tendency for adjacent cells to develop and join together.
( http://books.google.com/books?id=vzNRAAAAMAAJ&q=Elements+of+Meteorology,+Miller+and+Thompson+join+together&dq=Elements+of+Meteorology,+Miller+and+Thompson+join+together&ei=VRI-SPG9J6e6jgGG0_yMBg&pgis=1 - http://books.google.com/books?id=vzNRAAAAMAAJ&q=Elements+of+Meteorology,+Miller+and+Thompson+%22join+together%22&dq=Elements+of+Meteorology,+Miller+and+Thompson+%22join+together%22&ei=VRI-SPG9J6e6jgGG0_yMBg&pgis=1 )
 
Miller and Thompson were referring to convective cells joining together, not "small clouds".  As for whatever liberties the Islamic commentators took in quoting the book, we can only guess.
 
I am not mocking the Quran, Truth_light24.  I am mocking your attempt to interpret a very beautiful and poetic passage in the Quran as if it were a scientific text of some sort.


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Addeenul �Aql � Religion is intellect.


Posted By: Shasta'sAunt
Date Posted: 03 June 2008 at 12:43am
Originally posted by Truth_light24 Truth_light24 wrote:

It means that the Quran have said it long before the scientist have discovered it! Do I need to spell out the obvious?? Why in the world would I compare what the science says about the formation of cloud and that of what Allah said in the Quran??Disapprove

 
I think we can all agree that over 1400 years ago science did not understand how clouds were formed.
 
If anyone here does not agree with this, please post proof that there were meteorologists at the time of the Prophet, or before, that recorded the science of cloud formation.


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�No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.�
Eleanor Roosevelt


Posted By: rami
Date Posted: 03 June 2008 at 4:05pm
Bi ismillahi rahmani raheem

Assalamu alaikum

The problem isnt the Quran but the translation and assumptions being made and taken for granted. I dont think Ron web disproved anything truth light posted translation or otherwise even if i don't agree with it entirely.

The point isnt "the Quran said it 1400 years ago" that is an extremely shallow understanding of the verse. Allah says Have you not seen how God makes the clouds move gently, then joins them together, then makes them into a stack, and then you see the rain come out of it... . (Qur�an, 24:43)

He is asking you to reflect on what it is he does to bring about rain, this is a much deeper statement. If you want to wonder in amazment how an Arab could know such things having lived in the desert all his life, while using "christian" standards of accepting things as fact when they are trying to disprove another religion....he got into a UFO the same ones spoken about thousands of years before christ and mentioned in the Hindu scriptures with some great detail went into the clouds learned about meteorology and the weather and came back down to earth.

Becouse if it existed at the time of the prophet [sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam] or even before his time it automatically means that is how he gained his knowledge....right RON?



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Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.


Posted By: Ron Webb
Date Posted: 03 June 2008 at 6:27pm
I'd like to reply, rami, but I have no idea what you just said. Ermm

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Addeenul �Aql � Religion is intellect.


Posted By: rami
Date Posted: 03 June 2008 at 10:20pm
Bi ismillahi rahmani raheem

if i have to explain it the humor and irony would be lost LOL

don't worry it wasn't entirely directed at you, lets just say some Christians are a hypocritical when it comes to looking in there own backyard.


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Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.


Posted By: Zaharah
Date Posted: 27 June 2008 at 9:14pm
lol Rami, that's funnyLOL LOL
I just Love clouds.  We muslims just love them all the more because of our belief on how they were and who created them. Allah is great!
Zaharah LOL



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