I am trying to hear from Christians or (anyone else that believes that Jesus died for our sins) more of the meaning behind this concept/belief. I have a basic understanding of why individuals believe why this event has taken place, and the reason behind it, but it still leaves me unsure how one fully accepts the concept. So I had a few question. I will discuss of what I learnt and then I will follow with the questions....

 What is being claimed is that Jesus had to die so that he will be able to wash away our sins and so that we will be forgiven. To follow God law- as the christian view is-  the punishment for sin is death. And by Jesus dying he saved us and sacrificed himself in order that we can continue to live on earth, giving us another chance to do the 'right thing' so that we have a chance of going to heaven. Also it is claimed that Jesus is God in the flesh. So God is our ultimate savior, but God had to be in man form on order to save us.

What I wrote above is how I understand the concept in a nutshell. If I have a misunderstanding of this Christian concept can someone please re-explain.

Now here are my questions..

1)How can the sacrifice of a MAN- even if he was sinless and his blood is considered to hold the spirit of God- wash away ANOTHER MAN sins??

Christians say that Jesus sacrifice relates to the sacrifice and offerings that were done in the times of the old testment. Animals were sacrificed in replacement for humans, and the animal death were symbolic to show that indeed the consequence of sin was death. The offerings were done to show their sign of repentance. (again, If I'm misunderstanding something can someone please re-explain).

But what's important to know is that God did not desire these offerings. God really wanted to be obeyed. Verses in the Old testament concludes this fact.

1 samual 15:22 'But Samual replied: Does the Lord delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices as much as in the obeying the voice of the Lord? To obey is better than sacrifice and to heed is better than the fat of rams'.

Psalm 40:6  ' Sacrfice and offerings you did not desire, but my ears you have pierced burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not require.

2) So if God desired us to follow his law and the offerings did not hold much 'weight' with God, why would all of a sudden the blood shed of man, God best creation- serves as a sacrifice that God will be so pleased with, when God really wants each individual to decide to follow the right path on his own? 

The claim is that Jesus blood was eternal because he was sinless. He was sinless because he was also the flesh of God, and God is eternal.

3)But there were men in the Bible before Jesus that God gave much praise to, so why did they have to wait until Jesus sacrifice?

Job 2:3 ' Then the Lord said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright man who fears God and shuns evil. And he still maintains is integrity though you incited me against him to ruin him WITHOUT ANY REASON'

Without true repentence blood shed means nothing!

The sacrifice of the animal and laying our hands in the blood were to show that we identify with the death and to HELP US UNDERSTAND our repentance.

final note- I read to gain knowledge. Even though I turn to both the Quran and the Bible ( mainly the old testament). I will never deny the wisdom that is indeed in the Bible. In fact Allah(swt) has told me to embrace the Torah.

Do I feel that Jesus (p.b.u.h) is a great man, Yes I indeed do.

Did he suffer alot to make sure we receive the message that God wanted to be sent to others? Yes! I believe so and I am really grateful from the bottom of my heart!

But ALL the prophets did work that I am grateful for from the bottom of my heart!

I am left believing that true repentance is more important then anything else. If it's not in my heart, no blood shed will ever save me!

4)Christian dogma says that if I do not accept Jesus as my savior then I am damn. But if I believe and accept God as my savior, and I am grateful for what Jesus(p.b.u.h) has done as a messenger, and (Christians already claim that Jesus is God in the flesh) then why am I still damn according to Christians?

With what shall I approach the Lord,

Do homage to God on high?

Shall I approach Him with burnt offerings,

With calves a year old?

Would the Lord be pleased with thousands of rams,

With myriads of streams of oil?

Shall I give my firstborn for my transgression,

The fruit of my body for my sins?

Man has told you what is good.

But what does the Lord require of you?

Only to do justice

And to love goodness,

And to walk humbly with your God (Micah 6:6-8).

Many blessings to all my sisters and brothers.

Layalee

Jesus' sacrifice has given us strength to fight sin.  On our own none of us is holy enough to be in the presence of GOD.  No matter how many good deeds we do, how much we pray, ask forgiveness, we do not measure up.

Something has to be paid for sin.  GOD was willing to give us His Son.  All the sacrifices of the perfect lamb of the Old Testament are a forshadowing of the sacrifice of Jesus.

Muslims keep bringing up the people before Jesus having to wait.  We all have to wait until the final judgement day.

Romans 2

6God "will give to each person according to what he has done." 7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11For God does not show favoritism.

12All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, 15since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) 16This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

believer wrote: Jesus' sacrifice has given us strength to fight sin.  On our own none of us is holy enough to be in the presence of GOD.  Romans 2 6God "will give to each person according to what he has done." 7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11For God does not show favoritism. 12All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, 15since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) 16This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

Believer you say: 'Jesus' sacrifice has given us strength to fight sin.' 

so my question is from that statement:

How does Jesus sacrifice gives us strength?

Believer you say: 'On our own none of us is holy enough to be in the presence of GOD. '

You even provide a supporting verse from the Bible. While first reading it, it appeard as if it contradicted your statement, especially these verses:

Romans

'12All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.'

My first impression from reading those verses is that every individidual will be judge by ones own actions. Based on how they carrried their life and the right and wrong they done.

But then I get confused when I read the following verse:

Romans

16This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

I don't understand this. Where is the fairness and justice at if we as individuals have to be judged through another man??

In my opinion it kinda contradicts the previous verses. If I'm misunderstanding the verse please kindly explain it.

So Believer if you can, do you mind further explaining some of the points I wrote.

Also I will like to challenge you and ask that you answer a question or two that I have in bold in my original first posting.

Thanks in advance.

Layalee

Layalee,

You ask good questions...it actually goes even further then Jesus dying for our sins.

In Romans 5 it states that Jesus died for our sins. What does that mean?

Well, it means, that we are reconciled to God. We sinned against God...God did nothing. God was our enemy...we weren't God's enemies. So he sent God the Son (Jesus Christ) to die. Through out the Bible, we are told that this Annointed One would take away thesin of the world. Why? Well because sin can not be in the presence f God.

So when Jesus died for us, we became friends of God again. BUT it in Romans it says we are SAVED BY HIS LIFE.

We are RECONCILED by HIS DEATH, and SAVED BY HIS LIFE...so the free gift is this: Once you believe that Jesus died for your sins, the Holy Spirit is poured in to you heart. God then works through you. He restores us back in to his immage.

You literally have God inside of you!!! That is the good news!!!

Isaiah 7

10Then the LORD spoke again to Ahaz, saying,

 11"Ask a ^(R)sign for yourself from the LORD your God; make it deep as Sheol or high as heaven."

 12But Ahaz said, "I will not ask, nor will I test the LORD!"

 13Then he said, "Listen now, O ⁽S)house of David! Is it too slight a thing for you to try the patience of men, that you will ⁽T)try the patience of ⁽U)my God as well?

 14"Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, ⁽V)a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call His name ^[a]⁽W)Immanuel.

 15"He will eat ⁽X)curds and honey at the time He knows enough to refuse evil and choose good.

 16"⁽Y)For before the boy will know enough to refuse evil and choose good, ⁽Z)the land whose two kings you dread will be forsaken.

1But there will be no more ⁽A)gloom for her who was in anguish; in earlier times He ⁽B)treated the ⁽C)land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali with contempt, but later on He shall make it glorious, by the way of the sea, on the other side of Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles.
    2⁽D)The people who walk in darkness
         Will see a great light;
         Those who live in a dark land,
         The light will shine on them.
    3⁽E)You shall multiply the nation,
         You ⁽F)shall increase their gladness;
         They will be glad in Your presence
         As with the gladness of harvest,
         As ⁽G)men rejoice when they divide the spoil.
    4For ⁽H)You shall break the yoke of their burden and the staff on their shoulders,
         The rod of their ⁽I)oppressor, as at the battle of ⁽J)Midian.
    5For every boot of the booted warrior in the battle tumult,
         And cloak rolled in blood, will be for burning, fuel for the fire.
    6For a ⁽K)child will be born to us, a ⁽L)son will be given to us;
         And the ⁽M)government will rest ⁽N)on His shoulders;
         And His name will be called ⁽O)Wonderful Counselor, ⁽P)Mighty God,
         Eterna l ⁽Q)Father, Prince of ⁽R)Peace.
    7There will be ⁽S)no end to the increase of His government or of peace,
         On the ⁽T)throne of David and over his kingdom,
         To establish it and to uphold it with ⁽U)justice and righteousness
         From then on and forevermore
         ⁽V)The zeal of the LORD of hosts will accomplish this.

 And His name will be called ^(O)Wonderful Counselor, ⁽P)Mighty God,
         Eterna l ⁽Q)Father, Prince of ⁽R)Peace.
    7There will be ⁽S)no end to the increase of His government or of peace,
         On the ⁽T)throne of David and over his kingdom,
         To establish it and to uphold it with ⁽U)justice and righteousness
         From then on and forevermore
         ⁽V)The zeal of the LORD of hosts will accomplish this.

I feel that there should be a comma between wonderful and counsellor in above quote. But let it be as it is shown.

None of these attributes fits Jesus. He was never mentioned as wonderful. He never counselled (consulted) any one, he was not the mighty god but his opponents (Jews) were mightier than him.

 He (Jesus) was not the eternal father. He was not a father at all of any kind. Nobody saw him as a father. He was not a prince except that he could be (child) from the line of king David. He was not seen as any prince of peace.

 the last few lines of the quote are absolutely wrong. Jesus was never sitting on the throne of david:

7There will be ⁽S)no end to the increase of His government or of peace,
         On the ⁽T)throne of David and over his kingdom,
         To establish it and to uphold it with ⁽U)justice and righteousness

He never had any government even for a day or any peace. We have not seen (in the books) that Jesus was on the throne of David over his kingdom....

 The post is not reliably applicable to Jesus. It may apply to some one else. Please explain it. Unless all these words are symbolic, they cannot be reconciled.

When a wrong is done a payment must be made, that is justice.

Jesus has atoned once and for all, any sin that I have in the past or future do.  God loves me so much that He gave His Son.  That gives anyone who believes amazing power to fight sin. 

Jesus is on the throne of the Kingdom of GOD.  All of the Bible leads up to Jesus.

 When a wrong is done a payment must be made, that is justice.

 When a wrong is done by "A" he/she should make the payment, not "B". It is not wise or justice that sin is committed by "X" and punishment is given to "Y". It is not logical. But what can we say about this atonement !!!

It is a gift from GOD. 

GOD made the sacrifice for us because He wants us with Him.  We are not capable of meeting the reqirement of righteousness on our own.

GOD loves us so much.

believer wrote: When a wrong is done a payment must be made, that is justice. Jesus has atoned once and for all, any sin that I have in the past or future do.  God loves me so much that He gave His Son.  That gives anyone who believes amazing power to fight sin.

Then what about Adam, Abraham, Noah, Moses? Who were they worshipping to before Jesus existed?

believer wrote: GOD loves us so much.

Indeed HE loves us so much! Below are some of His attributes God - The Creator of the whole universe.

Ar-Rahman 1  The All-Compassionate
Ar-Rahim  2 The All-Merciful
Al-Muhaymin  7  The Guardian
Al-Ghaffar  14  The Forgiving
Al-Wahhab  16  The Giver of All
Ar-Razzaq  17  The Sustainer
Al-Basit  21  The Reliever
Al-Mu'izz  24  The Bestower of Honors
As-Sami  26  The Hearer of All
Al-Basir  27  The Seer of All
Al-'Adl  29  The Just
Al-Khabir  31  The All-Aware
Al-Halim  32  The Forebearing
Al-Ghafur  34  The Forgiver and Hider of Faults
Ash-Shakur  35  The Rewarder of Thankfulness
Al-Muqit  39  The Nourisher
Al-Hasib  40  The Accounter
Al-Karim  42  The Generous
Ar-Raqib  43  The Watchful One
Al-Mujib  44  The Responder to Prayer
Al-Wasi'  45  The All-Comprehending
Al-Hakim  46  The Perfectly Wise
Al-Wadud  47  The Loving One
Al-Ba'ith  49  The Resurrector
Al-Wakil  52  The Trustee
As-Samad  68  The Satisfier of All Needs
Al-Wal�  77  The Protecting Friend
At-Tawwib  80  The Guide to Repentance
Al-Afu  82  The Forgiver
Al-Mani'  90  The Preventer of Harm
An-Nafi  92  The Creator of Good
An-Nur  93  The Light
Al-Hadi  94  The Guide
Al-Badi  95  The Originator
Al-Baqi  96  The Everlasting One
Al-Warith  97  The Inheritor of All
Ar-Rashid  98  The Righteous Teacher
As-Sabur  99  The Patient One

Wherever can we find a more Loving God?

Only God is worshipped, and He is the same God that all prophets prayed to throughout all mankind. Jesus also prayed to God.

As such when Christians pray, they do so, to God the Father, and through the name of Jesus. Jesus is then a mediator between the human and God.

I have posted a lengthy reply today  in 'the purpose of our existence' which explains why Christians see Jesus as their saviour, and the one who atoned for all the sins of the world. It also explains that God and Jesus are totally separate.

 Jesus also, like all other prophets of God, taught the method of repentence. John the baptist taught the same thing. In Mathews, there is an interesting story about two brothers, the younger one taking his share of money and going abroad to do trading. That was against the will of his father. He disobeyed and annoyed his father.

 He lost all his wealth and became destitute. Jesus told the story beautifully that one day that youngman in foreign country, felt that he should return to the father and apologise.... So came back home.... It is interesting to read that. How his father celebrated his return...  !!!

 Also, every where, jesus is teaching the people to return to God. That God becomes very pleased when some one returns to God (by repentence). Jesus gave examples of a young girl having ten coins. She lost one coin. How she will sweep the floor and search. How happy she will be when she finds it. Jesus a.s. specially emphasised that the girl had the nine coins with her. Why was she worried about one coin?. Are nine better or the one?? The nine are better. But she hunts for that lost coin. In the same, Allah (God) hopes and wishes that all lost persons should be saved. None should be lost.

 There is no need of any blood sacrifice. There is only need to return to God. Jesus gave his life for the good cause and did not stop working for the benefit of the people. Only those are saved who return to God. That is also the Islamic teaching, no difference. In Quran, it is called (Taubah, Istaghfaar).

If Jesus died on  the cross for the forgiveness of our sins, than the sacrifice should be ultimate, like God's own son, but my question is , if it did happen than how can God die, as we know God is the sustenance of life. If Jesus the man died than there is nothing special about this,  there are a lot of people in history who died for truth. So the question is who died on the cross?

The prodigal son.

All human bodies die but our souls live.  Our souls live either in hell - away from GOD or in heaven - with GOD.  The human body of Jesus died.  

   16        Relate in the Book (the story of) Mary, when she withdrew from her family to a place in the East.

             17.       She placed a screen (to screen herself) from them; then We sent her Our angel, and he appeared before her as a man in all respects.

             18.       She said: "I seek refuge from thee to (Allah) Most Gracious: (come not near) if thou dost fear Allah."

             19.       He said: "Nay, I am only a messenger from thy Lord, (to announce) to thee the gift of a pure son.

             20.       She said: "How shall I have a son, seeing that no man has touched me, and I am not unchaste?"

             21.       He said: "So (it will be): thy Lord saith, 'That is easy for Me: and (We wish) to appoint him as a Sign unto men and a Mercy from Us'. It is a matter (so) decreed."

             22.       So she conceived him, and she retired with him to a remote place.

             23.       And the pains of childbirth drove her to the trunk of a palm-tree. She cried (in her anguish): "Ah! would that I had died before this! would that I had been a thing forgotten!"

             24.       But (a voice) cried to her from beneath the (palm-tree): "Grieve not! for thy Lord hath provided a rivulet beneath thee;

             25.       "And shake towards thyself the trunk of the palm-tree: It will let fall fresh ripe dates upon thee.

             26.       "So eat and drink and cool (thine) eye. And if thou dost see any man, say, 'I have vowed a fast to (Allah) Most Gracious, and this day will I enter into no talk with any human being'"

             27.       At length she brought the (babe) to her people, carrying him (in her arms). They said: "O Mary! truly a strange thing has thou brought!

             28.       "O sister of Aaron! Thy father was not a man of evil, nor thy mother a woman unchaste!"

             29.       But she pointed to the babe. They said: "How can we talk to one who is a child in the cradle?"

             30.       He said: "I am indeed a servant of Allah. He hath given me revelation and made me a prophet;

             31.       "And He hath made me blessed wheresoever I be, and hath enjoined on me Prayer and Charity as long as I live;

             32.       "(He hath made me) kind to my mother, and not overbearing or unblest;

             33.      "So peace is on me the day I was born, the day that I die, and the day that I shall be raised up to life (again)"!

             34.       Such (was) Jesus the son of Mary: (it is) a statement of truth, about which they (vainly) dispute.

             35.       It is not befitting to (the majesty of) Allah that He should beget a son. Glory be to Him! when He determines a matter, He only says to it, "Be", and it is.

             36.       Verily Allah is my Lord and your Lord: Him therefore serve ye: this is a Way that is straight.

The Holy Quran - Surah Maryam.

"the gift of a pure son" - does this mean sinless?

17.   She placed a screen (to screen herself) from them; then We sent her Our angel, and he appeared before her as a man in all respects.

This implies that there was actual intercourse between the angel appearing as man in all respects!!  Do you believe that Jesus is half angel?

21.  He said: "So (it will be): thy Lord saith, 'That is easy for Me: and (We wish) to appoint him as a Sign unto men and a Mercy from Us'. It is a matter (so) decreed."

Why do you not believe that Jesus is the Son of GOD, that at least half of Him was GOD?  With Adam GOD used only dust, so Adam was created.   Mary conceived Jesus through the action of one of the substances of GOD that is the Holy Spirit.

This implies that there was actual intercourse between the angel appearing as man in all respects!!  Do you believe that Jesus is half angel?

My dear Believer,

There are many stories about the Angel coming to meet Muhammad bringing verses of the AlQuran or teaching him what Muhamamd ought to know. The Angel sometimes came in the form of a man. So this was another example of the Angel who came to relay the message from God to Maryam.

Angels are created by Allah naturally obedient. Satan the opposite but we human have both characteristics. If we can overcome our satanic characteristics we can become better than an angel. And of course Jesus is not half angel. Jesus was human. The son that came out of a sufi woman Maryam (may Allah shower her blessings).

Actually the creation of Adam was  more wonderful than the creation of Jesus. From nothing, Allah created Adam, without father without mother. While Jesus, he still has a mother, which is quite natural.

The Holy Spirit was just the Angel, who was just doing his job of relaying messages from God to humankind. He had no power of creating things. The absolute power belongs to the Creator - Allah Al-Khaliq.

I had quoted versus of the Al-Quran regarding the birth of Jesus. Can you please quote verses of the bible concerning the birth of Jesus?

Thank you in advance.

Salam.

Nur_Ilahi and believer,

Hope you dont mind me writing the verses from the Bible concerning the birth of Jesus. 

Believer, there are other scriptures too. Maybe you can share them with us?

St Matthew 1

18. Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise(in this way): when as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

19. Then Joseph her husband, being just a man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily (1)

20. But while he thought on these things;behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife:for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

21. And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus:for he shall save his people from their sins.

22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet,(2) saying,

23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is,God with us.

24 Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:

25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son:and he called his name Jesus.

1. He desired to release or divorce her secretly

2. Isaiah 7:14

In chapter 2 of Matthew we read  'Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem, saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him'

NB: The Wise men of the east. It is not recorded how many there were, but common belief is that there were three.  They were not ordinary men, but were spiritually sensitive and knowledgable to search out Jesus. The customary identification of them as astrologers is a gross misrepresentation. They were possibly prophets that were sent on a divine errand. They were able to see the star when others could not, they knew it's meaning and brought gold, frankincense and myrrh, and they were warned by God to return to their home by a safe route. Their knowledge was precise and accurate. They returned to their people(somewhere east of Palestine) to bear witness that Jesus, King Immanuel had been born, as prophesied.

believer wrote: Jesus' sacrifice has given us strength to fight sin.  On our own none of us is holy enough to be in the presence of GOD.  No matter how many good deeds we do, how much we pray, ask forgiveness, we do not measure up. Something has to be paid for sin.  GOD was willing to give us His Son.  All the sacrifices of the perfect lamb of the Old Testament are a forshadowing of the sacrifice of Jesus. Muslims keep bringing up the people before Jesus having to wait.  We all have to wait until the final judgement day. Romans 2 6God "will give to each person according to what he has done." 7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11For God does not show favoritism. 12All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, 15since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) 16This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

ASSALAMUALAIKUM

this christian believe in second coming of Jesus

but how many Muslim believe Jesus will come to the earth four times

poga wrote: but how many Muslim believe Jesus will come to the earth four times

what are you talking about.

No muslim believes Jesus will come to the earth 4 times. Christians believe Jesus will return again, as said second coming. Muslims also believe that he will return, being raised up and then return when the time is right. Both groups believes Jesus will return once more NOT 4 times for muslims. Where do you get this from?

p.s: the last didn't make sense, so had to fix it

Angel wrote: poga wrote: but how many Muslim believe Jesus will come to the earth four times what are you talking about. No muslim believes Jesus will come to the earth 4 times. Christians believe Jesus will return again, as said second coming. Muslims also believe that he will return, being raised up and then return when the time is right. Neither group believes Jesus will return once more NOT 4 times for muslims. Where do you get this from?

how many time do you believe he will come altogether please give answer with evidence

poga wrote: Angel wrote: poga wrote: but how many Muslim believe Jesus will come to the earth four times what are you talking about. No muslim believes Jesus will come to the earth 4 times. Christians believe Jesus will return again, as said second coming. Muslims also believe that he will return, being raised up and then return when the time is right. Neither group believes Jesus will return once more NOT 4 times for muslims. Where do you get this from? how many time do you believe he will come altogether please give answer with evidence

Poga, you say how many times muslims believe jesus will come back 4 times, I questioned it and asked you where you got 4 times from. You had to get from somewhere to mention it. You asking me about my beliefs is irelevant at this point in time. You need to clarify your side first.

 Angela, j http://www.jesuswillreturn.com/ - esuswillreturn.com  this website details the Muslim view on the second coming by an Islamic Scholar.

This is not a reliable article because it raises many questions to the identity of the Dajjal and Jesus too. It does not describe whether Dajjal is a single person (man) or does it represent a group of people?

 But thanks to you for giving some news about your faith i.e. Mormonism. I had no idea and even now i have little understanding of your faith. I learnt a few things but many need to be understood.

 I knew quite a lot about the catholic and protestants. But nothing about Mormons. 1. Do I understand that you have a separate book of faith?? What is its name and where is it available?

 You believe in the original sin. 2. Perhaps you (as a Mormon) believe fully in the bible OT and NT? 3. Then you believe that Jesus was son of God. 4. In what sense?? 5. Physical or just spiritual or both?? 6. You believe that Jesus was God and son of God both at the same time?? 7. Do you believe that he was a prophet or not?? 8. Do you believe that Jesus was a man or son of a man?? It would be good if you spread news about your faith more clearly, by giving numbers to the questions raised above. Thanks.

Angel wrote: poga wrote: Angel wrote: poga wrote: but how many Muslim believe Jesus will come to the earth four times what are you talking about. No muslim believes Jesus will come to the earth 4 times. Christians believe Jesus will return again, as said second coming. Muslims also believe that he will return, being raised up and then return when the time is right. Neither group believes Jesus will return once more NOT 4 times for muslims. Where do you get this from? how many time do you believe he will come altogether please give answer with evidence Poga, you say how many times muslims believe jesus will come back 4 times, I questioned it and asked you where you got 4 times from. You had to get from somewhere to mention it. You asking me about my beliefs is irelevant at this point in time. You need to clarify your side first.

my side is very clear brother i believe JESUS will visit earth five times

and as for evidence SWEETSWORDS based on QURAN and HADIS

minuteman wrote:    Angela, j http://www.jesuswillreturn.com/ - esuswillreturn.com  this website details the Muslim view on the second coming by an Islamic Scholar. This is not a reliable article because it raises many questions to the identity of the Dajjal and Jesus too. It does not describe whether Dajjal is a single person (man) or does it represent a group of people?  But thanks to you for giving some news about your faith i.e. Mormonism. I had no idea and even now i have little understanding of your faith. I learnt a few things but many need to be understood.  I knew quite a lot about the catholic and protestants. But nothing about Mormons. 1. Do I understand that you have a separate book of faith?? What is its name and where is it available?  You believe in the original sin. 2. Perhaps you (as a Mormon) believe fully in the bible OT and NT? 3. Then you believe that Jesus was son of God. 4. In what sense?? 5. Physical or just spiritual or both?? 6. You believe that Jesus was God and son of God both at the same time?? 7. Do you believe that he was a prophet or not?? 8. Do you believe that Jesus was a man or son of a man?? It would be good if you spread news about your faith more clearly, by giving numbers to the questions raised above. Thanks.

is MORMON and MORON are one and same

Poga,

Not nice to ask if Moron and Mormon are the same.

How would you like it if someone asked if muslim and muslin(cloth) are the same.

Please dont poke fun.

The Mormon religion is very nice. I know the religion very well.

Poga,

Is there a significance in your name 'Poga' . Or are you a pogo stick?

martha wrote: Poga, Is there a significance in your name 'Poga' . Or are you a pogo stick?

yes significance of my name is i am from town called Maulvi Bazar in Bangladesh and other Bangladeshi especially sylheti call us poga meaning FOOL

because they say we voted for one educated cobbler in place of un eduacated tyrant to be our elected mp

martha wrote: Poga, Not nice to ask if Moron and Mormon are the same. How would you like it if someone asked if muslim and muslin(cloth) are the same. Please dont poke fun. The Mormon religion is very nice. I know the religion very well.

it is always been your way to name the muslims  but by calling what you like our meaning will never change

i am learned this from christian

but you did not say are Mormon and moron are same or not

poga wrote: Angel wrote: poga wrote: Angel wrote: poga wrote: but how many Muslim believe Jesus will come to the earth four times what are you talking about. No muslim believes Jesus will come to the earth 4 times. Christians believe Jesus will return again, as said second coming. Muslims also believe that he will return, being raised up and then return when the time is right. Neither group believes Jesus will return once more NOT 4 times for muslims. Where do you get this from? how many time do you believe he will come altogether please give answer with evidence Poga, you say how many times muslims believe jesus will come back 4 times, I questioned it and asked you where you got 4 times from. You had to get from somewhere to mention it. You asking me about my beliefs is irelevant at this point in time. You need to clarify your side first. my side is very clear brother i believe JESUS will visit earth five times and as for evidence SWEETSWORDS based on QURAN and HADIS

angel i think you are alone bring another angel israfil

lets see two angels against one black men

it is i who say Jesus will come five times to this earth

if you do not believe what i say and say no he will come once two time or three then you produce your proof

Bro Poga,

We are off topic, but I researched both names, Poga and Moron, after you explained the meaning behind yours.

Moron was originally an English scientific term, coined in 1910 by psychologist Henry H. Goddard from the Greek word moros meaning "dull" (as opposed to sharp) and used to describe a person with a mental age between 8 and 12 on the Binet scale. It was also once applied to people with an IQ of 51-70 and was a step up from "imbecile" (IQ of 26-50) and two steps up from "idiot" (IQ of 0-25). The word moron, along with "retarded" and "feeble-minded" (among others), was once considered a valid descriptor in the psychological community, though these words have all now passed into common slang use, exclusively in a detrimental context

Moron (Ether 11:14-18) was a later Jaredite king who reigned during a time of great wickedness and turmoil, and was himself wicked. He lost half his kingdom for many years in a rebellion and, after regaining his kingdom, was completely overthrown and lived out his life in captivity. He was the grandfather of the prophet Ether

martha wrote: Bro Poga, We are off topic, but I researched both names, Poga and Moron, after you explained the meaning behind yours. Moron was originally an English scientific term, coined in 1910 by psychologist Henry H. Goddard from the Greek word moros meaning "dull" (as opposed to sharp) and used to describe a person with a mental age between 8 and 12 on the Binet scale. It was also once applied to people with an IQ of 51-70 and was a step up from "imbecile" (IQ of 26-50) and two steps up from "idiot" (IQ of 0-25). The word moron, along with "retarded" and "feeble-minded" (among others), was once considered a valid descriptor in the psychological community, though these words have all now passed into common slang use, exclusively in a detrimental context Moron (Ether 11:14-18) was a later Jaredite king who reigned during a time of great wickedness and turmoil, and was himself wicked. He lost half his kingdom for many years in a rebellion and, after regaining his kingdom, was completely overthrown and lived out his life in captivity. He was the grandfather of the prophet Ether A Poga is a descriptive noun for a http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=noob - noob . A Pogas place of dwelling is the computer where he spends many hours attempting to diminish his noob statues. A Poga does not enjoy sport or any activity what so ever. A Poga is a violent creature who may lash out every now and again if provoked, thus approach with extreme caution. All things said, a Mormon is not a moron. Just as you Poga are no fool. Why do you now say that Jesus will come 5 times, and not 4 as you previously mentioned? Will you increase that number to 6 when you reply?

Hello Martha you are right about poga and thank you for info about mormons

i do not have any inferiority complex but complex i do have superiority one and i am not mixed like British and Bengali i am mixed like Jinn and Insaan

you know why i am the great MUSALMAN

and indeed poga means fool ask any non maulavi bazari people of bangladesh

no i am not going to say six because it is five

and i said four before because four is included in five but not six if i say exactly five

before i gave answer i want some response from Muslims in this matter

seekheedayath can i interest you in this topic please come your opinion will greatly strengthen my points

Poga,

What response do you want from muslim. I am muslim, did you not know this?

martha wrote: Poga, What response do you want from muslim. I am muslim, did you not know this?

sorry no sister i thought you are mormon

what i want is just simple i want someone to say no Jesus will not be coming five times because it Say's so here in this Kitab or by this Alim

that's it

Poga,

Your post was deleted. It is important that we all comply with guidelines.

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peacemaker wrote: Poga, Your post was deleted. It is important that we all comply with guidelines. 15. We will not tolerate personal attacks on participants from ANY Community (personal attacks are defined as comments that reflect upon the person instead of their opinion). Furthermore, any insults intended to ANY religion, ANY prophet of God, or ANY holy scripture shall be removed. 16. Slanderous, defamatory, obscene, indecent, lewd, pornographic, violent, abusive, insulting, threatening, or harassing comments are not tolerated. ALL comments by the person who adopts such a manner may be removed and the person will lose the privilege of participating in the forums in future. We will try to block attempts from the same person to sign up with a different User name as well. Guidelines Peace

thank you ...salam

poga wrote: martha wrote: Poga, What response do you want from muslim. I am muslim, did you not know this? sorry no sister i thought you are mormon what i want is just simple i want someone to say no Jesus will not be coming five times because it Say's so here in this Kitab or by this Alim that's it

ASSALAMUALIKUM

as there was no answer

i have taken it upon me replay i hope you will find it factual

 
 
 
 
Yes Jesus will return but do they know how many times he will come
What begun when first time ALLAH Rubbed his divine hand on the back of the earthen ADAM
And out came all his Chromosome
And all his progeny including JESUS fell on the Vally Arafath like the grains of maize
Then he came the second coming in belly of the virgin MARIAM as the INJILIC page
On his fourth return he will kill the DAJJAL and on the fifth at the day of judgment he will save the MUSLIM
As the one of the many viceroys of the Savior of the entire creations MUHAMMAD Sallel La Hu Alahi Wa Sallim
Yes indeed JESUS first said i am the Prophet of ALLAH in the Vally of NAMAAN
Yes indeed JESUS said i am the Prophet of ALLAH and the Qadian Is The Prophet of SHAITAAN
Yes JESUS will return not once or two three four but five time by the command of ALLAH
Including the Jamath of Prophets in the night of MIRAJ at the BAITUL MUQADDAS under IMAM of all Imams MUHAMMADUR RASULULLAH
 
from SWEETSWORDS 15 [ SURE ]
 
 

 
 
5.It is the day on which Allaah took the covenant from the progeny of Adam.
 
It was reported that Ibn Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: 'Allaah took the covenant from the ...[offspring] of Adam in Na'maan, i.e., Arafaah. He brought forth ... all his offspring and spread them before Him, then He addressed them, and said: 'Am I not your Lord? They said, 'Yes, we testify,' lest you should say on the Day of Resurrection: 'Verily, we have been unaware of this.' Or lest you should say: 'It was only our fathers aforetime who took others as partners in worship along with Allaah, and we were (merely their) descendents after them; will You then destroy us because of the deeds of men who practised Al-Baatil (i.e., ploytheism and committing crimes and sins, invoking and worshipping others besides Allaah)?' [al-A'raaf 7:172-173 interpretation of the meaning].' Narrated by Ahmad and classed as saheeh by al-Albaani. And there is no greater day than this and no greater covenant than this.

It was reported that Ibn Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: 'Allaah took the covenant from the ...[offspring] of Adam in Na'maan, i.e., Arafaah. He brought forth ... all his offspring and spread them before Him, then He addressed them, and said: 'Am I not your Lord? They said, 'Yes, we testify,' lest you should say on the Day of Resurrection: 'Verily, we have been unaware of this.' Or lest you should say: 'It was only our fathers aforetime who took others as partners in worship along with Allaah, and we were (merely their) descendents after them; will You then destroy us because of the deeds of men who practised Al-Baatil (i.e., ploytheism and committing crimes and sins, invoking and worshipping others besides Allaah)?' [al-A'raaf 7:172-173 interpretation of the meaning].' Narrated by Ahmad and classed as saheeh by al-Albaani. And there is no greater day than this and no greater covenant than this.

poga wrote: poga wrote: Angel wrote: poga wrote: Angel wrote: poga wrote: but how many Muslim believe Jesus will come to the earth four times what are you talking about. No muslim believes Jesus will come to the earth 4 times. Christians believe Jesus will return again, as said second coming. Muslims also believe that he will return, being raised up and then return when the time is right. Neither group believes Jesus will return once more NOT 4 times for muslims. Where do you get this from? how many time do you believe he will come altogether please give answer with evidence Poga, you say how many times muslims believe jesus will come back 4 times, I questioned it and asked you where you got 4 times from. You had to get from somewhere to mention it. You asking me about my beliefs is irelevant at this point in time. You need to clarify your side first. my side is very clear brother i believe JESUS will visit earth five times and as for evidence SWEETSWORDS based on QURAN and HADIS it's sister   So now its five not four times that jesus will return ??? your evidence is your sweetwords ?? that's not enough that is your personal belief. I wanted proper evidence from qu'ran but you seem to be incapable of that. [quote]angel i think you are alone bring another angel israfil lets see two angels against one black men it is i who say Jesus will come five times to this earth if you do not believe what i say and say no he will come once two time or three then you produce your proof

"it is i who say Jesus will come five times to this earth" YOU got that right!!

believer wrote: When a wrong is done a payment must be made, that is justice.

Yes. Any person who has done wrong must pay for his sin.

What was the SIN or WRONG committed by God that God had to make an innocent and good man suffer?

And what was Jesus' sin?

Salaams

BMZ 

Jesus is coming back to this earth one time.  In the Christian bible in the book of Acts Chapter 1
the disciples saw Jesus ascend in the clouds to heaven.   Two angels appeared and told the disciples that Jesus would return
in the same manner as he left.   In Matthew 24:30-31, Jesus himself said that 
at the end of the great tribulation the world would see him returning to htis earth in clouds of glory.
In Revelation 19, Jesus is pictured returning to this earth 
to defeat the world's armies gathered together to stop him, as well as,
the Antichrist and the false prophet.

Sincerely,

Doug L.