Eternal Torture - Never-Ending Torment

Firstly, "the idea of hell"? Why do you say "idea" now?

I call them "ideas" because we all have this vision on what Hell or Heaven is like when in reality we may be wrong. Fire to us may not be like fire in Hell, but more of an metaphorical sense of torment and pain however you may want to double check an Imam on the physical characteristics of Heaven and Hell.

Eternal torture does not become any less evil if it is retribution for a wrong that's been done.

Why do you call being in Hell torture? In our idea it may be torture but in the mind of God it is something else. Your interpretation of what Hell is obviously is nothing more than a subjective claim and really, you cannot prove that Hell is immoral. You have not provided any solid ethical claim that serving in Hell is immoral. Before you make a claim in saying Hell is an immoral place provide a solid claim that states that Hell is immoral. If the concept of Hell is to recompensate the wicked hos is it immoral?

We have moral feelings and statements about anything, any state of affairs. You clearly don't think eternal torture is barbaric and the very worst notion ever to be imagined.

Allow me to show my reductio ad Absurdum in that, you are like above, claiming that Hell is immoral without providing a solid defense on why Hell is immoral. Again, if you take into consideration that Hell serves those who commit great crimes why is the sentence and what it entails immoral? Provide proof. To say Hell is evil because it is torturous is not enough to make a solid claim on your position. Simply saying Hell is barbaric is also insufficient in your claim. I have debated better argumentative athiest.

I would never love or forgive a deity that allowed there to be a place/dimension where eternal torture happens. That deity would be a primitive and evil entity.

Another subjective claim without merit......

No. Murderers should be punished, incapacitated and deterred. What's that got to do with eternal torture

How is Hell not a punishment? That is the whole idea! Again don't confuse Hell with torture just because what you read is, in your mind torture. Take into consideration of the theology. You assume Hell is torture based on your idea of retribution. The theological concept of retribution is different than contemporary thought you must keep that in mind. You call this primitive? Frankly, I find it primitive for ancient human conquerors to skin and boil their victims alive simply for not serving in their empire primitive [See Genghis Khan]. Hell is also a place where wicked individuals are incapacitated both spiritually and physically what is your point?

Answer this: What is the purpose of the eternal existence of a soul in 'hell'?

Wow this question is borderline dumb in a way. I just explained to you that according to theology the spiritual dimension is absent of time which is a state of reality. It is such a reality that extends from Divine Emanation. Meaning, since God is not subject to motion, time, and space so to the reality that extends from divine emanation.

My moral feelings just seem to be there, natural. Even away from the irrational feelings that are 'morals', the rational case for 'hell' being primitive needless harm is obvious.

Another ignorant comment. Inital moral development is 90% societal [parental figures, extended family, television etc-but usually is developed by direct contact from a parental figure or figures] the other 5% is innate which comes from the faculties of your brain, particularly in various regions where mental processes occur the frontal lobe I suspect is one area where moral judgement may come from. The other 5% is simply developed from adulthood. Of course these percentages may vary but this is to show you that moral judgement is not innate. A baby is not born a moral creature and therefore, is neither good or bad nor is cognizant of both qualities. I find your classification rather unsupported.

Are you allowed to have an opinion of your own on this? Don't you think, based on what you do know now, that God should zap those hell-bound souls out of existence, rather than let them pointlessly suffer?

Yes I have an opinion and yes I also know that, while God can "zap evildoers out of hell" I also know that he can make square circles a logical reality in our minds but this has not come to pass.

As I said, I am an atheist. Am I not "away from the 'sight' of God"? I don't think you have a single thing to base your statement that such a situation is torment. Or am I in "spiritual metaphorical" torment?

FFS I'm referring to being in Hell. It represents being away from the sight of God. I mentioned that the pain and the fire and all of what the Qur'an describes may serve as a metaphorical basis of spiritual agony being away from God however I'm not at the liberity to say that this is universal this is my personal philosophica view. As far as your question on whether you are tormented that is a question you alone can answer. I do not know you. I also cannot judged you so if you're looking for me to say "yes your hellbound" forget it.

As for my personal opinion on 'hell': it seems to me that hell is a relic of the human species' most primitive urges to see their enemies suffer. The hope of somehow surviving death is made even more attractive with a 'heaven' and the thought that the disbelievers/your enemies will be suffering greatly. It's a sadistic primitive kind of 'ha, see! ha!'. All totally made-up by silly humans of course.

Very childish....

Me thinks Materialist just wants to argue his poorly defended position.

I don't think any of that made sense. Care to give it another go?

My moral feelings just seem to be there, natural. Even away from the irrational feelings that are 'morals', the rational case for 'hell' being primitive needless harm is obvious. Another ignorant comment. Inital moral development is 90% societal [parental figures, extended family, television etc-but usually is developed by direct contact from a parental figure or figures] the other 5% is innate which comes from the faculties of your brain, particularly in various regions where mental processes occur the frontal lobe I suspect is one area where moral judgement may come from. The other 5% is simply developed from adulthood. Of course these percentages may vary but this is to show you that moral judgement is not innate. A baby is not born a moral creature and therefore, is neither good or bad nor is cognizant of both qualities. I find your classification rather unsupported.

My "classification" was a report of personal experience, since I've been old enough to examine my morals. I didn't say I got them all genetically. If mine was an "ignorant" comment then yours, being "ignorant" of what I clearly wrote, is what?

I want to see the evidence you have for those percentages as I am not aware of any clear results on the subject of where our morality comes from yet.

Are you allowed to have an opinion of your own on this? Don't you think, based on what you do know now, that God should zap those hell-bound souls out of existence, rather than let them pointlessly suffer? Yes I have an opinion and yes I also know that, while God can "zap evildoers out of hell" I also know that he can make square circles a logical reality in our minds but this has not come to pass.

You've missed the question there. I didn't ask if he 'can' do it, he's 'all-powerful' so that would be silly. I asked whether, in your opinion, he should zap them out of existence rather than allowing them to stay on in suffering.

As I said, I am an atheist. Am I not "away from the 'sight' of God"? I don't think you have a single thing to base your statement that such a situation is torment. Or am I in "spiritual metaphorical" torment? FFS I'm referring to being in Hell. It represents being away from the sight of God. I mentioned that the pain and the fire and all of what the Qur'an describes may serve as a metaphorical basis of spiritual agony being away from God however I'm not at the liberity to say that this is universal this is my personal philosophica view.

So it was just speculation?

As for my personal opinion on 'hell': it seems to me that hell is a relic of the human species' most primitive urges to see their enemies suffer. The hope of somehow surviving death is made even more attractive with a 'heaven' and the thought that the disbelievers/your enemies will be suffering greatly. It's a sadistic primitive kind of 'ha, see! ha!'. All totally made-up by silly humans of course. Very childish.... Me thinks Materialist just wants to argue his poorly defended position.