Seven Sleepers of Ephesus |
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Delta
Senior Member Joined: 16 April 2007 Location: Portugal Status: Offline Points: 114 |
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Posted: 21 June 2007 at 2:52pm |
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Sleepers
In the KORAN Sura 18 - al kahf How do you explain this ? |
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abuzaid
Senior Member Male Joined: 13 November 2005 Status: Offline Points: 163 |
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What explanation you want to have. Read it and tell us what exctly is the problem. The Islamic version is related in Surah (Chapter) Al-Kahf (18, "The Cave"), of the Qur'an. The holy Quran tells the story of the sleepers in detail, but does not give importance to their number. In the Quran God says, they (the Jews) ask you about their number, say to them, only God knows it best. [1] It also mentions a dog along the sleepers. The Quran states that the period of time these sleepers spent in the cave was three hundred years during which the calendar of their people was changed from Gregorian (solar) to lunar and, as a result, the period of their sleep has increased to 309 (lunar) years. When they woke up, they had no idea they slept for centuries and thought they only slept a few hours. When they sent one of them to buy food, that's when their story became known. Scholars have postulated that the reason they were discovered is that the coins they were using to buy food were out of circulation for ages and that drew the attention of the town's people. After the story was widely known, the sleepers died, just as the moral of their story was impressed on the people, that is God resurrects the dead and protects true believers. During the time of prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, the Jews of Medina challenged him to tell them the story of the sleepers knowing that none of the Arabs knew about it. God then sent Gabrial to reveal the story to him through Surah Al-Kahf. After hearing it from him, the Jews confirmed that he told the same story they knew.
If you feel that story in Quran is not accurate as per your history, then why do you think that your history is perfect and Quran should be in line with your version of history?? Had you have found the Quran exactly as per you history christian would have said that Prophet Mohammed have heard it from people around and included it in Quran. Now, if you find it different from your history you are raising doubt about Quran, either way Quran should be at fault. how can we help such people?? |
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BMZ
Moderator Group Joined: 03 April 2006 Status: Offline Points: 1852 |
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Do you have that story in the Christian or the Jewish Bible, Delta?
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Shasta's Aunt: "Well, there's the difference you see. The Bible was written by man about God, The Quran was revealed to man by God."
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Delta
Senior Member Joined: 16 April 2007 Location: Portugal Status: Offline Points: 114 |
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That's a very old Christian Legend http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05496a.htm |
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superme
Senior Member Joined: 03 April 2006 Location: Cocos (Keeling) Islands Status: Offline Points: 463 |
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Unnecessary comment abuzaid, sound like you are on the defensive and trapped in the corner. Are you trapped? The survival of the sleepers for such duration is really hard to understand considering that the human body can only survived without water in matter of days, not weeks due to dehydration. Therefore the place - which was the cave - must be really something so unique that supplied the fluid to their body need when they were unconscious. And the food is another matter. Than we need to consider the timing. Time traveller is what we need to consider here but I don't know how, maybe any of you can start it. And thou mightest have seen the sun when it rose move away from their cave to the right, and when it set go past them on the left, and they were in the cleft thereof. That was (one) of the portents of Allah. He whom Allah guideth, he indeed is led aright, and he whom He sendeth astray, for him thou wilt not find a guiding friend.(18:17) |
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Andalus
Moderator Group Joined: 12 October 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1187 |
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Actually, the story in the Quran has several issue in it, not a �single man� who falls asleep. The authors attempt to make such a sweeping generalization about a subject that will, no doubt, be found in writings of other cultures, given the fact that �sleep� has been regarded as something mystical, or even mysterious. Man was born with a �fitra�, a natral state, and it is through parents and culture that we can be deviated from our natural �fitra�. It is reasonable that many elements remain, such that man, even as a pagan, has regarded blood sacrifices of animals as something mystical, though it does not mean that Moses borrowed the notion of blood sacrifices from pagans, or the idea of a virgin birth as something mystical, does not mean that the virgin birth of Jesus is borrowed from pagan legends. This author attempts to generalize the idea of sleep in mystical literature by trying to erroneously equate the story in the Quran with his undefined idea of �a man who falls asleep�. The Quran tells us a story that is not about a man who goes to sleep for a long time. The story covers essential topics such as young men who were under great persecution and went to great lengths to refrain from idolatry, and they were used as an example to a future generation. The truth is, the Christians wish to dismiss it because doing so will, in their hope and as a part of their agenda, diminish the Quran. The problem is that they have no way to authenticate their inheritance, and they have no idea if the story took place or not, and the story does not share its main traits with the older accounts of a �single man who sleeps� that the author briefly mentions, but fails to show us how they are actually related.
The story is this: Decius (249-251) once came to Ephesus to enforce his laws against Christians -- a gruesome description of the horrors he made them suffer follows -- here he found seven noble young men, named Maximillian, Jamblichos, Martin, John, Dionysios, Exakostodianos, and Antoninos (so Metaphrastes; the names vary considerably; Gregory of Tours has Achillides, Diomedes, Diogenus, Probatus, Stephanus, Sambatus, and Quiriacus), who were Christians. The emperor tried them and then gave them a short time for consideration, till he came back again to This author, nor any Christian today, has any way to authenticate any bit of their story as legend or fact or fiction, and with what truth may rest in their story, they have no way to discern between what is real and what is a fabrication.
Koch (op.cit.) has examined the growth of this story and the spread of the legend of miraculously long sleep. Aristotle (Phys., IV, xi) refers to a similar tale about sleepers at Sardes; there are many more examples from various countries (Koch, pp. 24-40, quotes German, British, Slav, Indian, Jewish, Chinese, and Arabian versions). Frederick Barbarossa and Rip Van Winkle are well-known later examples. The statement
The This is a blatant lie. The Quran has mentioned a story, and this story has not changed. There was not �further� developed after revelation.
as well as in medieval Christendom (ib., 153-183). Baronius was the first to doubt it (Ann. Eccl. in the Acta SS., July, 386, 48); it was then discredited till modern study of folk-lore gave it an honoured place again as the classical example of a widely spread myth. The problem is that, as I have stated a few times, these people have no way to �authenticate� any of their traditions. They really have no idea, and simply dismiss and accept based upon conjecture.
The Seven Sleepers have feasts in the Byzantine Calendar on 4 August and 22 October; in the Roman Martyrology they are commemorated as Let�s say this is true, and lets say that the story in the Quran is about the 7 young men in
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mariyah
Senior Member Joined: 29 March 2006 Status: Offline Points: 1283 |
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Superme: If you read the thread where Delta puts forth the notion that the Kaaba is a Hindu Temple, and read the posts where Delta puts down and attacks Islam, you will see why Abuzaid made this comment. Delta's style is to post a seemingly innocent question, let a few Muslims make some innocent replies, then he goes for the jugular and derides our faith. Kinda like Bismarck is doing with the non Muslims in his posts. Read them and see. Delta is someone I am avoiding because it is like repeatedly hitting at a brick wall. Only the bricks fall occasionally and hit you. Why waste your breath with arguing with him? |
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"Every good deed is charity whether you come to your brother's assistance or just greet him with a smile.
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Delta
Senior Member Joined: 16 April 2007 Location: Portugal Status: Offline Points: 114 |
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Maryah
Please calm down Please read CAREFULLY this topic in a stricter muslim forum : http://www.imanway.com/en/showthread.php?t=4405 I have many posts in there and only a few here : www.turntoislam.com ========= But I wonder why Maryah, why you are reacting that way Read that, and then you can make a new topic "Delta the idiot" or "Delta the troll" I don't care....I will answer and explain whatever you want But read please...read Edited by Delta |
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