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Allahuakbar501
 
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Quote Allahuakbar501 Replybullet Topic: Whats your take on this?
    Posted: 12 June 2007 at 8:49pm
Watch this video on youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bLZscpq1xA some brothers said it is extreme but i would like to know what you think, and if you want you can visit my youtube page and watch videos i add to my favorites here www.youtube.com/flav4z
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Israfil
 
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Quote Israfil Replybullet Posted: 13 June 2007 at 1:08am

His Khutba had a motive.....

Rather than discuss both sides of Jihad he greatly politicized his speech with religious rhetoric to fire up the listeners. It easy to wallow in self-victimization by discussing how bad America, Britain, and Zionism (as if those are the only elements behind Muslim oppression) are and incite hatred for other countries and get young dumb males to kill for Allah. True Jihad, in my opinion is the spiritual battle one has with oneself. The devil [or Satan] does not need to use man against man Satan can use man against himself. Unfortunately we focus so much on hating America we forgot all about Satan. No wonder Satan will lead so many astray.

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minuteman
 
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Quote minuteman Replybullet Posted: 13 June 2007 at 4:27am

 

 What is written above by Israfil seems to be correct. It is easy to incite the young people for Jihad. But Jihad must have some conditions too. If they are not fulfilled then there is no Jihad.

The greater Jihad is against one's lower self (Nafs e Ammara) which can always be carried out.

 I would like to know where were these violent speakers when things were going down the drain. Why they did not guide the people and why they did not speak the truth long time before. It is no use now, crying over spilt milk.

 But if any one now will repent and truely return to Allah then Allah is  The Forgiving and The Merciful.

 

If any one is bad some one must suffer
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fatima
 
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Quote fatima Replybullet Posted: 13 June 2007 at 6:27am

Bismillah irrahman irrahim

Assalamu alaykum

First thing it is taken from a khutba which is originaly going to be longer than this two minute clip. It takes you straight into when the imam is talking about jihad and specific form of jihad, you dont know exactly what he was saying before that to call this extreme. The second part is some what true because if you following a sharia that came fourteen hundered years ago people persume you to be backward which is never the case.

Islam has its concept of Jihad/Qital which is allowed in specific circumstances. Now to completely deny that or let some one twist into some thing else is wrong.

wassalam

Say: (O Muhammad) If you love Allah, then follow me, Allah will love you and forgive you your faults, and Allah is Forgiving, MercifuL
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Allahuakbar501
 
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Quote Allahuakbar501 Replybullet Posted: 13 June 2007 at 7:39am
Well here is the response i put under the video; (Read Surah 2:216 then Read Surah 5:51-64 then read the Hadith in Sahih Muslim: book 041 numbers 6981-6985) I will come back to discuss later but this is not extreme everything he said came out of Qur'an and Sunnah,,wassalam
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Israfil
 
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Quote Israfil Replybullet Posted: 13 June 2007 at 11:09am
Originally posted by fatima

Bismillah irrahman irrahim

Assalamu alaykum

First thing it is taken from a khutba which is originaly going to be longer than this two minute clip. It takes you straight into when the imam is talking about jihad and specific form of jihad, you dont know exactly what he was saying before that to call this extreme. The second part is some what true because if you following a sharia that came fourteen hundered years ago people persume you to be backward which is never the case.

Islam has its concept of Jihad/Qital which is allowed in specific circumstances. Now to completely deny that or let some one twist into some thing else is wrong.

wassalam


This is the problem with videos such as these. Those ignorant of Islamic teachings will interpret that as hostile religious rhetoric and attribute that to Islamic practice.

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Allahuakbar501
 
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Quote Allahuakbar501 Replybullet Posted: 13 June 2007 at 2:16pm
Originally posted by Israfil

His Khutba had a motive.....

Rather than discuss both sides of Jihad he greatly politicized his speech with religious rhetoric to fire up the listeners. It easy to wallow in self-victimization by discussing how bad America, Britain, and Zionism (as if those are the only elements behind Muslim oppression) are and incite hatred for other countries and get young dumb males to kill for Allah. True Jihad, in my opinion is the spiritual battle one has with oneself. The devil [or Satan] does not need to use man against man Satan can use man against himself. Unfortunately we focus so much on hating America we forgot all about Satan. No wonder Satan will lead so many astray.

Self victamization? You should study gloablization The American and British Governments, Zionsim, freemasonary, etc are enemys of Islam (and im not saying that we dont have any black sheep in are midst that need to be taken care of either but thats not the biggest issue). Then we have to look at like this, this is a Khutba that was delivered in Baghdad if we were going threw the same situations in the west they are going through over there are khutbas probably wouldnt be any different (But Allah knows best). Theres Political agendas,war profiteers and a Zionist filtered media this is the reason Islam is being propagated. Islam is a Huge threat to the way there trying to govern things not because Islam is Violent but for what it teaches. Muslims are forbiden to pay and accept Rib'a (Intrest) which is a huge threat to the bank systems which are built upon a system of Intrest, Islam is also a threat to this so called Democracy because Muslims recognize that the Shari'a is what should Govern all of Man's affairs. Islam is also much more than a relgion it's a complete way of Life that can not be contained by such a materialistic consumer based society. Islam is a threat to these poison peddlers and thats basically what it comes down to. now as you say "True Jihad, in my opinion is the spiritual battle one has with oneself" This is agreeable but to say "The Devil does not need to use man against man satan can use man against himself" This has a little truth to it as well but lets look into the Qur'an and the Sunnah of the Prophet (saw).

Surah 2: 216. Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not.

So we see Fighting is presribed for us, but Muslims who dont want to admit that a jihad at a great magnitude is justified is because they dislike fighting the answer for that kind of talk is in this verse.

but we also see in

Surah 3: 185. Every soul shall have a taste of death: And only on the Day of Judgment shall you be paid your full recompense. Only he who is saved far from the Fire and admitted to the Garden will have attained the object (of Life): For the life of this world is but goods and chattels of deception.

So every soul shall taste death this is a reality were not going to live for ever further more we also see when Allah states in

Surah 2:41. And believe in what I reveal, confirming the revelation which is with you, and be not the first to reject Faith therein, nor sell My Signs for a small price; and fear Me, and Me alone.

So what are you afraid of as Muslims we should only fear Allah. Muslims like to say Islam is a Religion of peace but now were in the Qur'an does Allah say Islam is a Religion of peace (maybe Allah does state this but show me were). what is really meant by this is that a Muslim should have nothing to fear except Allah so because of this you will be at peace with yourself by submitting to the will of Allah because you have nothing to fear except Allah. But some Muslims are soft they like to sugar coat things for the Kaffirs.

Now lets look at what the Prophet Muhammed's(saw) Sunnah says in Sahih Muslim

  Book 041, Number 6981:

Ibn 'Umar reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: You will fight against the Jews and you will kill them until even a stone would say: Come here, Muslim, there is a Jew (hiding himself behind me) ; kill him.


Book 041, Number 6982:

Ubaidullah has reported this hadith with this chain of transmitters (and the Words are):" There is a Jew behind me."


Book 041, Number 6983:

Abdullah b. 'Umar reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: You and the Jews would fight against one another until a stone would say: Muslim, here is a Jew behind me; come and kill him.


Book 041, Number 6984:

Abdullah b. 'Umar reported that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: The Jews will fight against you and you will gain victory over them until the stone would say: Muslim, here is a Jew behind me; kill him.


Book 041, Number 6985:

Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews.

and let me put up a few of the major signs of the last day up as well

SUFYAANI ARMY SWALLOWED BY THE EARTH.
The Sufyaani army (an Anti-Muslim force) from Syria singles out Imam Mahdi for execution. On the way to Makkah, they get swallowed into the ground. A second Sufyaani army is created with 960,000 men (of 80 nations).

CONFRONTATION IN SYRIA
Imam Mahdi and the Muslim army go to Syria to confront the Christians. The Christians, before the battle, will ask Muslims for the return of their prisoners-of-war. The Muslims will refuse. The battle will begin. One-third of Imam Mahdi’s army will flee (their repentance will not be accepted), one-third will be martyred, and one-third will gain victory over the Christians.

MUSLIM ARMY UNDER IMAAM MAHDI CONQUERS PALESTINE JIHAAD ON INDIA
A jamaat of Muslims wages Jihaad on India and be successful.

SYRIA UNDER MUSLIM RULE
Imam Mahdi returns to Syria and establishes Muslim rule over the lands he passes.

So as we see after looking at all of this, this Imam was speaking the truth which some muslims are afraid of hearing and dont want to accept, it sounds somewhat like apostasty to me when they dont. There is Mujaahideen on many fronts as we speak doing what Allah has commanded and there is very few but how sweet martydom is. we all must put are trust in Allah and stand up for justice and the believers will triumph. I am no scholar so my ears are open to what any Brother or sister has to say and i would like to continue this discussion and Allah(swt) knows best.

and i would like to leave you all with a quote from a Great scholar of Islam: Ibn Taimiyah

"“What can my enemies possibly do to me? My paradise is in my heart; wherever I go it goes with me, insepa­rable from me. For me, prison is a place of (religious) retreat; ex­ecution is my opportunity for martyrdom; and exile from my town is but a chance to travel.”

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Israfil
 
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Quote Israfil Replybullet Posted: 13 June 2007 at 6:30pm

Look,

I don't agree with the video. I'd very much like to listen to a Khutba about Jihad, but I seriously don't want to listen to an old guy on the podium talking about fighting the infidel. I'd rather live with men than kill them, that is my motto. Now, if someone is an immediate threat to me and my family and is intentionally trying to kill me I'll do whatever is necessary to defend them. But there is a difference in the kind of mentality we carry with Jihad today than 200 years ago.

Jihad the word itself is used quite loosely and especially amongst the greater population of Muslims who don't even have a decent education much less can understand the logic behind the divine words. You disagree with me regarding the devil tricking man to turn on himself, well, we can see the results in Iraq with Muslims fighting against Muslims. You can' blame the U.S for that. Nobody told anyone to load a rifle and empty a whole round into their neighbor. there is a thing called dialogue that I think people avoid. Allahuakbar501, you sound like you have a motive bro. The Imam as I have seen, greatly politicized his speech. we need to focus more on empowering ourselves with knowledge rather focus on who is our enemy.

Our enemy is Satan....Now you say that is little truth then obviously you are looking at the "spititual world" with blinders on.

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