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Percentage of men in jail?

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Hayfa View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hayfa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2007 at 7:38am

To some extent, you are right.

The absent fathers syndrome leads to fornicating and prostituting daughters, and when the proportion of girls in the community getting into that, rises above a certain treshold, they all start doing it, including the girls from good families.

Well it als ohas to do with people COMPLETELY immoral to force women to do this. and they do. It is not just the breakdown of family. There are many girls who are kidnapped and sold into slavery. The international trade is tremendous. And once you are in another country you are stuck. Really. Then there ar et he families who sell their children..

You make it seme like a black and white issue. And it is so complex. Yes a small percentage of people "choose" to do it. And then the vast majority are either sold or stolen. And once in, hard to get out especially in poor countries.

As I say, let's shame the men.

When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi
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crasss View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote crasss Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2007 at 8:24am
Originally posted by Hayfa Hayfa wrote:

Well it als ohas to do with people COMPLETELY immoral to force women to do this. and they do. It is not just the breakdown of family. There are many girls who are kidnapped and sold into slavery.

How could the kidnapper get close to the girl and be alone with her without bystanders?
Originally posted by Hayfa Hayfa wrote:

The international trade is tremendous. And once you are in another country you are stuck. Really.

We're talking about girls who were "promised a job" in a foreign country. What father allows his daughter to take that kind of job, while he is supposed to keep an eye on her chastity?
Originally posted by Hayfa Hayfa wrote:

Then there ar et he families who sell their children.

Even that doesn't make sense. They could as well sell her to her future husband, if they are so short of money.
Originally posted by Hayfa Hayfa wrote:

You make it seme like a black and white issue. And it is so complex. Yes a small percentage of people "choose" to do it.

Ha ha ha ha. The vast majority chooses to do it. 1/3 of the schoolgirls in Russia does it on a freelance basis. Why would anybody need to kidnap the remainder, when there are millions of "volunteers"?
Originally posted by Hayfa Hayfa wrote:

As I say, let's shame the men.

Let's blame a culture that turns the prostitutes into enviable heroes or poor victims, instead of facing the truth. In traditional societies, prostitutes have a very low social status, and are looked down upon, for very good reasons, if only, to make the career unattractive to any "aspiring" schoolgirls.



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Duende View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Duende Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2007 at 12:32pm
"Let's blame a culture that turns the prostitutes into enviable heroes or
poor victims, instead of facing the truth. In traditional societies,
prostitutes have a very low social status, and are looked down upon, for
very good reasons, if only, to make the career unattractive to any
"aspiring" schoolgirls."

Okay, heaven forbid we should blame men.

I really feel sorry for every woman you meet. You are a very delusional
person indeed, and in for a few surprises.

"Since time immorial, female sexuality has been very well understood and
correctly feared and therefore highly regulated."

You are the first person I've ever said this to on this forum, you are
completely st**id and obviously have very little experience of women
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Duende Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2007 at 2:00pm

�If your story were true, Somalia and Burma should be rife with
prostitution, and they aren't, while South Central Los Angeles definitely is

So how come you can�t show any data for either of these two countries?
Recent data shows the preferred form of physical contact for men
towards women in Somalia is rape. No body asked the women. I recently
read about a woman who escaped from her village in Somalia when the
Janjaweed attacked. She now rises at six every morning to go searching
for fire wood. She runs the risk of being seen, and consequently raped,
every day. Where are the men who could protect her, or at least go fetch
the fire wood?

�Given the fact that everybody ancestors were poor, everybody would
descend from criminals and prostitutes. Preposterous.� Once again your
all or nothing reasoning leaves huge gaps in your understanding. Who is
everybody that you assume they were all poor?

�Poverty DOES NOT explain crime and prostitution.�

I think first you would have to define poor. Are you talking about
someone of poor intellect, like yourself, or someone who does not have
enough money to buy the basic ingredient of their staple diet (such as
corn or wheat). An example: people in the slums of Addis Abbaba often
have to get by on 28 US cents a day. Obviously, the staple diet there is
not MacDonalds, nevertheless, starvation is the overriding theme of each
and every day. When most of the men- fathers, husbands, brothers,
nephews are eaten up by typhoid, tuberculosis or AIDS related ailments,
how would you expect them to shelter their women from their constant
desire to fornicate (everybody knows, starvation is such a turn on.)?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Duende Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2007 at 2:15pm
In the twenty-first century (1980-2001), women are prostitutes for many
different reasons and these roots of prostitution are similar to the
reasons women became prostitutes in the Victorian age. Some women
move into prostitution due to economic needs like poverty, emotional
neediness and susceptibility to pressure from friends; few women listed
only one main reason for entering into the profession (Scambler 7). Some
prostitutes� explanation for becoming involved in prostitution include
�having a history of sexual abuse, having grown up without love from the
significant adults in their lives, being enticed by a male of female friend
or by peer pressure from a group of friends, and needing money. Those
who used drugs prior to their involvement in prostitution activities
mention their addiction as a major reason for trading sex for money or
drugs.� (Sterk 35)

Why has prostitution been allowed to continue? The answer is simple:
men.

MYTH 1 - Prostitution is a natural expression of sexuality and a necessity
for inadequate sexual relationships.

This view supports a sexual myth that men have uncontrollable sexual
urges that must be fulfilled. Herein lies a justification for prostitution.
The juvenile prostitute is dehumanized by the implication that prostitutes
serve a useful purpose as an object for sexual gratification. The reality, as
described by our sample of former juvenile prostitutes, is that juvenile
prostitutes are often appalled at and damaged by the acts demanded of
them. Their participation is often a threat to their physical well-being.
The act of prostitution is structured by the desires and fantasies of the
customer, which are incongruent with the desires and sensitivities
expressed by the young women in this sample.

MYTH 3 - Juveniles freely choose prostitution.

The following self-reported data on the impact of child abuse shows that
victims of violence can lose their sense of psychological and physical
well-being. Case histories suggest that a number of juveniles engaged in
prostitution grew up in abusive and/or neglectful homes. A fragile self-
esteem and limited resources lead some young girls to believe that they
have no other choice but to enter the world of prostitution.

MYTH 4 - Prostitution can be an exciting and glamorous life.

Cultural mythology about prostitution is built on misinformation and
fantasies of sexuality that are promulgated through movies, television,
videotapes, and printed material including pornography. These may
entice naive young women into prostitution with false promises of
glamour and riches. In reality juvenile prostitutes suffer pain,
humiliation, and degradation at the hands of their pimps and customers.
They are susceptible to sexually transmitted diseases and unwanted
pregnancies
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crasss View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote crasss Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2007 at 6:56pm
Originally posted by Duende Duende wrote:

Okay, heaven forbid we should blame men.

The purpose of the game is to ensure the survival and success of the extended family/community. We do not differentiate between men and women in that respect, because everybody is called to do his or her duty, whatever that takes. For the women of the extended family/community, that means first and foremost, that they shall maintain their chastity. Any internal/external threat to the survival or success of the extended family/community or failure to do one's duty shall be answered with severe retaliation, and all members, men and women, had better know it.
Originally posted by Duende Duende wrote:

I really feel sorry for every woman you meet. You are a very delusional person indeed, and in for a few surprises.

Men and women are the same in that respect, that they will not forget to do what they have to do, if it is obvious what the goal and the rules are, and you enforce that with an iron fist.
Originally posted by Duende Duende wrote:

You are the first person I've ever said this to on this forum, you are completely st**id and obviously have very little experience of women

Everybody needs to be kept in their place, and women are no exception to that. I am definitely not naive or st.up.id about that. I am likely to be about other things. Point conceded.

We must make sure that the highest social status is given to the members who have contributed the most to the success of the community. The sincere appreciation by other members is invariably the highest reward one could receive. It trumps money, material benefits, et cetera. Therefore, we must enforce the proper social ranking. For women, that means that the ones who have dedicated their lives to the community by never straying from the honourable path, are the highest in rank. We must enforce respect for the older, honourable women, if need be at gunpoint, if only, as a matter of equity, and crucially, in order to maintain the social ranking that will ensure attainment of the extended family/community goals.

Fornicatresses and prostitutes shall be met with contempt and spit upon, at the very least, to clearly indicate the fact that their behaviour is a threat to the extended family/community, and relegate them to the very bottom of the social ladder, so that it is clear to everyone that such path is detestable.

Men shall do their duty and fend off any external interference with the extended family/community, whatever the cost associated, and if need be with machine guns.

As I said in an earlier thread, the bureaucratic state has a strong inclination and desire to stick their noses in the extended family/community with the purpose of weakening kinship ties, and lifting essential extended family/community rules. It is therefore the duty of the men, to unite with the other extended families/communities, and destroy the enemy, with disregard for one's own life.

The almighty Allah expects every man to do his duty.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Duende Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2007 at 3:20am
"Fornicatresses and prostitutes shall be met with contempt and spit upon,
at the very least, to clearly indicate the fact that their behaviour is a threat
to the extended family/community, and relegate them to the very bottom
of the social ladder, so that it is clear to everyone that such path is
detestable."

Yes, and lets do nothing to make sure men don't seek out women
desperately in need of money and promise them a 'good time'.

Is a man who uses a prostitute not as detestable as the prostitute?

"Men shall do their duty and fend off any external interference with the
extended family/community, whatever the cost associated, and if need be
with machine guns"

You paint a picture of Afghan tribal culture, so well known for its record
in life expectancy, high literacy, social harmony and achievement.

I am not against cultures based on extended family and tribal ties. I
actually live within that very set up. In the society I live in, the very rules
which govern these ties and family communities have been extended into
general society around us. However, we do not regard a woman with fear
and suspicion because we recognise that a woman with self determination
is far healthier psychologically than one kept beneath a burkah, hiding in
the kitchen, perpetually pregnant and therefore anemic and exhausted,
forbiden at gun point from addressing a man from outside the clan.

I'm not sure where you think you're going to find this idyllic supposedly
Islamic community, but I suggest you go to a few villages in Afghanistan
and the tribal belt. There, you may find the toothless mother of twelve
(three lost to miscarriage, two died in childbirth, two died of fever before
the age of 5) illiterate and ignorant, who will be your ideal of 'honourable
woman'. I'm sure she's dying to meet you.
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crasss View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote crasss Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2007 at 4:10am
Originally posted by Duende Duende wrote:

Is a man who uses a prostitute not as detestable as the prostitute?

From the point of view of the extended family, what family members do, is important. As you probably understand, they will take a dim view on male family members who visit prostitutes somewhere far outside the extended family, but I doubt they would lose so much sleep over it.
Originally posted by Duende Duende wrote:

You paint a picture of Afghan tribal culture, so well known for its record in life expectancy, high literacy, social harmony and achievement.

The Jews also have a tribal culture, and they're not know for being illiterate.

Social harmony is best served by not sticking one's nose into other people's family affairs.

Record life expectancy, high literacy, social harmony and achievement were brought about by previous generations in the West, which managed to maintain their chastity and keep their families together, and is not the result of the current fornication fest, which is actually squandering the progress made by these previous generations.

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