nationalism that was introduced to muslims by however was evil and is evil.

look at sudan

look at pakistan and bangladesh

look at the arabs fightin turks

kurds fightin everyone

as muslims, our allegiance should lie with islam, then islam, then islam and then islam and only islam.

nationalism takes away allegiance from the shahada to some man made constitution.

Salaam Nausheen

Haven't seen such a posting for a few years. Islam shuns nationality or any other sovereignity than Human Rights.

Assalamualaikum

Lets not forget that my thread-setting post begins with the Islamic State vs Malay Nationalism debate in Malaysia, which is really stemming from politics.  Whatever the claim, it has not deviated from that. 

In the nutshell, my underlying message is to highlight that its not the labelling to the ideological �ism that determines the Islamness but its consistency with the spirit of  Islam and the result. Apart from mentioning of Dr Mahathir�s and Azhar�s Rector on Malaysia�s Islamic state status, the Islamic label and branding is irrelevent to me.

I highlight the inextricable link of Malay and Islam. The practise of ibadah and the high level of adab (behaviour and etiquette) in our culture is reflective of this claim. I boldly put forth that the success of  Malaysia as God�s will to the pragmatic and fine balancing act of �Malay Nationalism� ie achieving good governance, adhering to Islamic value, acculturing Islam and defending the ummah�s interest and development. 

Critique to my bold claim painted the same negative picture of Nationalism on Malay Nationalism. The refine Malay character was blatantly ignored. Some ill understood discrepencies was put forward, such as infering affirmative action as discrimination. Some fact put forth seem to come out from many of Time Warner�s media offices.  

Some argument were discomforting. It seems we Muslims have an obtuse obsession to talk of principle for principle sake, irrespective if it is detrimantal to the interest of the ummah. We  are so narrow and fanatic with our interpretation that we are prejudice to disbelieve that with creativity, conflicting interest can be balanced.   

I was not born yesterday to not know that repeated evil labelling of Nationalism, emphasis to refer to Quran and Hadith (without specifics), remark of �Islam is not a pastime�, etc, ultimately leads to discussion of Islamic statehood. An idea most associated with Hassan Al Banna�s and Syed Qutb�s Ikhwanul Muslimun. So I touched on Jamaluddin Al Afghani.

Scholars on the study of society long concluded that most of the thoughts on Islamic State are reactions to local problems without a holistic knowledge of the problems of the whole ummah.

But I look forward for that right models of modern Islamic state that is beneficial to the well being and akidah of the ummah. Yes I agree, we should strive for unity. (There is even a Forum for it ie the OIC. Unfortunately, it is another forum for the Arabs to carry their quarrels and bickering than pondering the plight of the ummah.) 

Someone refered me that a Quranic passage (17:70)  highlight good governance as non disriminatory, gender equality, rigths to other religion and democratic in nature. Malay Nationalism Malaysia fulfilled that, delivered the goods and Islam has flourished. Either we refuse to acknowledge due to minor discrepencies, perceived or real, or we learn from it.  

Till we move forward. Have a good weekend. Wassalam

utd4ever

PS  

Thank you ZamanH for highlighting prosperity is from Allah. For that matter, ilmu is from Allah too.

Mockba, I concur totally with your criticism on Islamic banking. We could talk futher on a different thread. But you should see economics in totality, not just banking, but to incorporate  the real-side and monetary side for a start.     

utd4ever wrote: I grew up with the song of the late John Lennon, Imagine. He seemed unislamic by syariah standard but the message of the song is �Islamic� and universal in promoting ideals of peace and harmony amongst all of mankind, beyond the boundaries of race, country and religion.

How can pop icons, every action of whose is inspired by conceitment and self-aggrandizment, can be expected to act islamically??

And, you seem to be deviating from the topic and not Mockba.

utd4ever wrote: Peace does matter to nation building and could not be conveniently subjugated as mere by product.

Yes, I agree peace is important for nation building. But peace is repugnant without justice. Without justice, peace is a big deception. Peace can only be acheived after justice has been done.

utd4ever wrote: What has the ideological luxuries lead us to? Have there been any well conceived solution derived from these ideologies (off course with Quran and Hadith as source) that managed to solve the malice of the ummah?

Muslims gained power and glory because of their adherence to their religion. Before Islam, those, who converted to Islam, were nothing. Islam brought them prosperity. Muslims fell because of their indulgence in wine and women. Muslims disobeyed Allah, though, they were warned by Muhammad (S.A.S). Muslims have never benefited from digressing from their religion. Our salvation lies only in return to our faith.

utd4ever wrote: Islam at its primary level is about taqwa ie abiding and refraining. Then its about moving up in the spirituality learning and experience curve of feel and finally taste (I�ll not get to it). Thus, the state of Islam (not to be confused with Islamic state) is best through individuals salvation to strive for goodness or at least, ever conscience of goodness (ihsan). It would flourish in a state of peace and prosperity and not by legalistic approach.

Islam has to be followed in all walks of life. Islam is not supposed to be a pastime. It has to be followed to the full. We can adopt views and customs of non-islamic cultures ONLY if they don't clash with the Islamic laws.

Besides, you seem to be opposed to the point that Islam enjoined fighting to oppose persecution.

utd4ever wrote: To what extent does Islamic unity exist?

That depends on us. We will have to unite and learn to help each other. I know it is very difficult and I don't know how it will be done. But I certainly know that it is much easier for us to unite than, it was for Muhammad (S.A.S) to deliver the Message of Allah to mankind.

utd4ever wrote: If the response of some of our fellow cash rich Muslim to the plight of my fellow Malay Muslim in the Acheh Tsunami disaster, as  compared to other natiosn of the world, is an indication, can I rely on such perception of unity.

Are you a woman, by the way??

We cannot hope to unite unless, we stop questioning what other Muslims can do for us and start asking ourselves what we can do for other Muslims.

In the past, Muslims brought prosperity to the lands they conquered.  Whereas, Westerners impoverished whichever land that had the misfortune of being visited by them. So, you should be convinced other Muslims won't take anything away from Malays (though, there have been ruthless Muslim conquerors in the past, but there must be many Malaysian conquerors too).

As for your statistics, Saudi Arabia spends greater percentage of its GDP on aid than the USA (and other Western countries which routinely default on their aid). Also another interesting link is:

http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issues/usa/2003/0626per suasion.htm

utd4ever wrote: Perhaps, I become unMalay to be boostful. In many other areas than the apex of business, Malay Nationalism has been helpful in uplifting the ummah. Some only 30 odd years ago, we started the race from way behind and we have high percentage of poverty in our community. In education, we were some more than 100 years disadvantaged in our motherland. Things are way much better.

Allah alone makes people prosperous. For some, prosperity is a reward; for others, it is a test.

utd4ever wrote: I still pose the same repeated question: What model of Islamic state will help teh plight of the ummah in Malaysia? As far as meeting Mockba�s criteria of Islamic State, syariah law has long been carried out albeit without the hudud. (That�s your bullet). Our leaders are elected, not inherited. They are educated, experience and full time politicians.

First of all, we need to built the consensus and the will to unite among the Muslims. We will have to make sacrifices and adjustments, depending on the problems we face in future; and  Allah will show us the way, as He did to many other people in the past.

ZamanH