StephenC wrote:
You don't seem to add anything to the discussion other than to attempt to wave off my statements without any contrary facts.
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Irrational.
The observations I made were about your irrelevant embellishments to events you listed as part of your investigation. So there would be no contrary facts to give when the dispute was your irrelevant embellishments.
The observations I made were, indeed, facts.
Tell your friend that there is absolutely NO PROOF at all that Muhammad was a true prophet from God. The only thing we have is that he apparently claimed to be one. There is no more proof of his prophethood then there is for "alien abductions."
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Thats a very interesting deflection Steph. Unfortunately, your reply to my friend is irrelevant, given that my friend is confused and has never claimed anyone to be a prophet, nor have I relayed any claim to you about him.
As for all the other claimed prophets, the same holds for them. There is no proof.
Now if your friend wants to believe that Muhammad was a prophet, that is fine and dandy for him. Me, God gave me a mind and the ability to reason.
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Interesting Steph. You keep telling me what an investigator you are, and how rational you are, yet my friend has not made any claims on anyone as to who or who is not a prophet, and you continue to reply as if such a claim was made.
So please, I ask you now, for the 4th or 5th time, please provide my friend with your criteria to judge a prophet and give us an example of a prophet?
All my professional career I have dealt with people who made unsubstantuated claims. Most I have disproven.
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The skeptics argument is easy Steph. Any child can produce a skeptical argument. And a skeptical argument can be used to place doubt on any belief. Not everything can be disproven as it depends on what the thing is, and to what extent it could be proven (varying degrees of "provability"). I wish you could put your skills you have bragged about so much here to real use and give an example of a prophet? Of Gd? The book you learned about Gd from? Something? Instead of hiding behind skeptical arguments, why not show us how things really work?
Using the talents God gave me and my training and experiences, I can not say that Muhammad was a true prophet from God. Nor can I say he was not. I disagree with some of his revelations and I agree with some of his revelations.
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What bases are you able to agree or disagree?
I can point out how the Quran has verses that contradict itself. I've pointed out a few of these (i.e. God made man from a clot of blood and God made mad from dust).
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Thats not a contradiction. A contradiction is two propositions that cannot both be true.
We are made from both. I was created from a clot of blood and my base material is from the same substance that is found in the earth and burned out suns. No one ever believed we were clay men.
The Quran has been edited and re-edited. The third Cailph set up a committe because he was concerned about all the conflicting versions.
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I am not aware of various editions? Perhaps you could back your claim?
1) variants (errors) did crop up, due to the spread of Islam into other lands. This does not conclude, or establish any error in the Quran.
2) You are trying to imply that because the Muslims formed a committe to establish the authritative written form, that there is in error in the Quran. You just complained because there were variant readings, now you complain because men who actually feared their Creator wanted to place piouse and exceptional men in charge of stopping the mistakes that had cropped up amongst individuals due to geographical contexts.
3) The Quran was memorized, long before the Muslims put forth their authrotiative written work. The Quran had already been written in a book form before the time of Uthman (may Allah be pleased with him).
So, I am not sure what you are complaining about. The Christians took centuries to try and form a commitie using sources that had already been damaged, and even into the 20th century, textual criticism is still trying to firgure out just what a Christian NT is.
The Jews were using the sanhedrin to decide their bible.
If we looked at Muhammad's life before the alleged encounter with the voice, he find that he had what we would call today a "disfunctional childhood." Many people overcome such adversities, many don't.
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Yes, you said this already, and you deflected and ignored my "valid" point about it. Let me rehash:
It is
1) irrelevant
2) without any point, due to that fact that you have yet to demonstrate how his childhood had an effect on an action that disproves his claim of prophethood.
Many do , many don't.......it is simply pointless blithering, and that's all it is unless you can show how it makes your case. Seriously. I am not being difficult in asking you to make a point.
If we look at the situation of the first "voice" we find questionable aspects of it.
For example, since Muhammad came from a paganistic area/family, what was he meditating on?
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Gd.
Since Moses came from a paganistic family and area, what did he contermplate on?
Your question is really silly. The speculation you are trying to use, fuled by your obvious prejudice, provides much less confidence than what we do know.
One thing for sure is that there are more legends and myths then there are facts about Muhammad.
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Assertion. Proof by assertion is not proof. After 30 years of being an investigator, I question your sloppy critical thinking skills about this topic.
But back to your friend, for the majority of the people, their religion is that of their family. If he/she is happy with that religion, stick with it. If not, seek out one you like.
Me, I'm "John the Baptist" religion type of guy.
My revelation from God is that God is the one we should worship and pray to, not anyone born of a woman. If you want to pray to God in some one's name. That is fine.
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How do you know there Gd exists and how do you know how to worship Him?
We all know what is right and what is wrong. We don't need any man to tell us otherwise.
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How do you know what is right and what is wrong?
And how do you know Gd feels it is right and wrong?