JESUS PROPHESIED ISLAM :GOSPEL OF MATTHEW

Message Topic Search Topic Options Post Reply Create New Topic Printable Version Translate Topic

 DavidC wrote:

This website has a hadith search.  I tried first & last and did not turn up anything that sounds like what you remember. Would you please search and see if I missed something?

I really do not have time or patience (tired right now) to find exact form of that sentence, it could have been in different words but with same meaning (remember also that as I heard it in Mosque, SEVERAL times in different situations and connections, it was translated from arabics and very different from original form, you can notice it just by going through different hadith-search programs). But I can assure you that there is such direct hadith.

This is what I found in quick search, in these links about one hadith this "idea" will come quite obvious:

 http://www.islaam.net/main/hadithsearch.php?q=last+prophet+f irst+to+enter+paradise&searchtype=allwords&hadith_bo ok=bukhari&recalc=1 

"............They (people) will go to Abraham and say, 'O Abraham!
You are Allah's Apostle and His Khalil from among the people of the
earth; so please intercede for us with your Lord. Don't you see in what
state we are?' He will say to them, 'My Lord has today become angry as He has never become before, nor will ever become thereafter. I had told three lies (Abu Haiyan (the sub-narrator) mentioned them in the Hadith) Myself! Myself! Myself! Go to someone else; go to Moses.' The people will then go to
Moses and say, 'O Moses! You art Allah's Apostle and Allah gave you
superiority above the others with this message and with His direct Talk to you; (please) intercede for us with your Lord Don't you see in what state we are?' Moses will say, 'My Lord has today become angry as He has never become before, nor will become thereafter, I killed a person whom I had not been ordered to kill. Myself! Myself! Myself! Go to someone else; go to Jesus.' So they will go to Jesus and say, 'O Jesus! You are Allah's Apostle and His Word which He sent to Mary, and a superior soul created by Him, and you talked to
the people while still young in the cradle. Please intercede for us
with your Lord. Don't you see in what state we are?' Jesus will say.
'My Lord has today become angry as He has
never become before nor will ever become thereafter. Jesus will not
mention any sin, but will say, 'Myself! Myself! Myself! Go to someone else; go to Muhammad.' So they will come to me and say, 'O Muhammad ! You are Allah's Apostle and the last of the prophets,
and Allah forgave your early and late sins. (Please) intercede for us
with your Lord. Don't you see in what state we are?" The Prophet added, "Then I will go beneath Allah's Throne and fall in prostration before my Lord. And then Allah will guide me to such praises and glorification to
Him as He has never guided anybody else before me. Then it will be
said, 'O Muhammad Raise your head. Ask, and it will be granted.
Intercede It (your intercession) will be accepted.' So I will raise my
head and Say, 'My followers, O my Lord! My followers, O my Lord'. It
will be said, 'O Muhammad! Let those of your followers who have no
accounts, through such a gate of the gates of enter Paradise as lies on the right; and they will share the other gates with the people." .......

.........  "Then a bridge (to paradise) will be laid across Hell (Fire)' I and my followers will be the first ones to go across it and none will speak on that Day except the Apostles."

As you see, it is clearly mentioned even here that even though Mohammed (pbuh) was last of prophets (/apostles, notice that Noah is mentioned before Abraham to be only a messenger for people), and Muslims last of believers, they will be first to enter paradise. Meaning is still the same as in my interpretation of this parallel (in fact it would not even need a hadith to support it, as Mohammed, pbuh, and Muslims REALLY WERE last, and Jews first, in this Abrahamic tree of religions that Jesus was part of, and thus speaking of). 

Here is how position of Noah (even though as a faithful Slave of Allah, as all Muslims) as only an (quite failed) "helper" of some few of his people (he was sent to) were described:

......"O Noah! You are the first (of Allah's Messengers) to
the people of the earth, and Allah has named you a thankful slave;
please intercede for us with your Lord. Don't you see in what state we
are?' He will say.' Today my Lord has become angry as He has never become nor will ever become thereafter. I had (in the world) the right to make one definitely accepted invocation, and I made it against my nation. Myself! Myself! Myself! Go to someone else; go to Abraham.".....

If this was not enough, I advice you to send direct question to people who know almost all hadiths just by memorizing those....

 DavidC wrote:

Now to Matthew.  You have an interesting hypothesis that MAY fit, but do you have any evidence? I don't understand how you arrived at your timeline, or what links it to known facts or scripture.

You could say that there is no evidence, if it were just about this single parallel. But take a look into my link about two parallels in Luke, they totally complete and support this same idea of timeline here in Matthews.

And what linked it to anything and how I arrived into this conclusion.....? To be honest, I do not know. Only Allah does. I tried to understand/calculate that same parallel somehow even when I was  just a kid starting to get to know Bible. I was puzzled by it. When I found Islam in early 2003, and again began to read Bible after a long period of not reading it (I thought that faith is enough, Bible just a "helper"), it just hit me like a lightning (previous time was  over 5 years earlier on these Finnish congregation summer-camps, where I was summers of my 16-17 years of age as a "helper" to guide kids couple of years younger, accompaning teachers).

Funny thing, I began to REALLY study Bible as a previous Holy Book, just to give a lesson to this one hot headed inqvisitor who kept blasheming Islam right into my face. I got him silenced only by Bible, because he did not accept authority of Koran.

 DavidC wrote:

So far, you have produced an elegant theory that is unsupported.  The bible says Jesus always addressed the crowds in parables, but that he would explain the parables to the Apostles later.  

Mark 4:10 ¶ And as soon as He was alone, His followers, along with the twelve, began asking Him about the parables. 
Mark 4:11 And He was saying to them, “To you has been given the mystery of the kingdom of God; but those who are outside get everything in parables.

Direct quote of Jesus here.  My question is if the parable you mention was meant to indicate Muhummad, why did Jesus not share that meaning with the Apostles? 

Notice that Jesus was speaking about that particular parallel said at that time, in that place just in earlier passages. But, well....

"The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables so that, 
   " 'they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, 
      and ever hearing but never understanding; 
   otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!'

And now I am explaining it to you here. So that you outside Kingdom of God ( http://www.angelfire.com/moon2/koran/islam/Cover1.GIF ) would understand. For centuries of darkness you have read it, and not understood it. It has been salvation for numerous of people "without knowledge" (saved according to Islam), otherwise they would have been doomed. Apostles were with Jesus, so they were in Kingdom of God (of that time). Would you consider having Jesus as a teacher to be beneficial, even without understanding parallels?

Now when, for some reason this part came to me, this has been explained, you can see, turn and be forgiven. Time for judgement has come (as I have explained in details earlier above), there is so much information about Islam, and Islam and Muslims in all around the world (f.ex. in internet), only few can escape it anymore. Time to make decision has arrived, and it is visible for whole mankind (just write "Jesus prophesied", or as in Spanish or Germany, "Jesus prophecied", into Google and see what comes up).

Why not to mention Mohammed (pbuh) directly?

What if I would try to explain you about some new totally revolutionally spiritual awakening in a form of a totally new religion, and then would say "ou, don�t worry about it, just be Muslim, there is still 600 years left, you will not be seeing it". Would it confuse you?

Those guys were still Jews at that time, crying out loud! Jesus obviously did not explain/handle even christianity there in between very well (if he would be one to blame, of course it was just people who were not able to understand him and his intelligence, as it usually is).....

And besides, Jewish prophet MIGHT think that after that 600 years when (majority of) you have been worshipping him, human being, as a god, well over 300 years, it would not be hard to understood anyway that Islam is only true monotheistic religion of Abraham (really monotheistic christians in Middle-East f.ex. have adapted Islam, as you can see, even christians believing into his divinity are such a small minority anymore. Change took centuries (in Byzantium and Spain) from christian majority under Islamic rule to christian minority under Islamic rule, but it happened.

Can you name any christian country in Europe, America, Asia (Philippines) or Africa, where christianity has been accepted voluntarily without forcing/brainwashing from authorities above normal people, who just decided that "christianity with trinity is religion for all of us"? Why do you think we do not have any pagans in Europe anymore? Why do you think we have no Muslims in Spain but immigrants and few "modern day converts"? Why do you think christianity is mixed with pagan rituals and beliefs in Africa and Latin America (it has not been there so long time yet and/or efficiency of destroying "heretics" has not been so successful, or has been abandoned)?

 DavidC wrote:

Now Jesus used agricultural metaphors all the time.  I am going to investigate the use of agricultural metaphor in Matthew, and in the other gospels.  Don't you agree that will produce an interpretation which maintains an internal relevance and consistency?

Now I will finally go to sleep, skip a day in school, and do not even try to understand what you just said (language barrier?). Do you think that Jesus was some kind of a farmer, who had obsession for agricultural activities (what kind of plants?), who was not able to speak about (meanings of) anything else? Which kind of soil were your seed thrown on?

Do you really think he just wanted to piss off as much pharisees (and others like Romans) just by speaking in ways they would not understand (when he could have as well keep it simple), for no reason? 

Go to Youtube.com, write Terminator 3, and watch that movie (parody about Jesus with Terminator)....

Speaking about metaphors to be understood completely only centuries later (happened to catch my attention when searching that hadith for you)....

Volume 9, Book 93, Number 528:

     Narrated Abu Dharr:

     I asked the Prophet regarding the Verse:--'And the sun runs on its 
     fixed course for a term decreed for it.' (36.28) He said, "Its fixed 
     course is underneath Allah's Throne."
Have you happened to notice that sun goes around centre of our crown-like galaxy right on its edge, ending up into a black hole (perhaps one giant right in center when it grows enough) some day?

Edited by Kariim25