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Sawtul Khilafah
 
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Quote Sawtul Khilafah Replybullet Topic: Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) in the Bible
    Posted: 13 September 2006 at 10:39am

Bismillahirrahmaanerraheem

Prophet Mohammad pbuh was mentioned in the Song of Songs (in the Old Testament) which is also known as Song of Solomon.
The original name of this song was Shir Hashirim.
This is what it says in Hebrew, 5:16
Chiku mamtakim v'khulo machamadim zeh dodi v'zeh re'i b'not yerushalayim
In English, 5:16:
His conversation is sweetness itself, he is MACHAMADIM, such is my beloved oh daughters of Jerusalem.
The word MACHAMADIM:
Firstly, the CH used is the same as the H used in arabic for the word MOHAMMAD. The IM at the end is just like the one used for ELOHIM. The IM at the end of ELOHIM is agreed by Jews and most Christians to be a sign of respect, like THE ELOH, or the Great Eloh, or the Majestic Eloh, etc.
Hence, the same applies to Machamadim. So the actual word is Machamad, and as we discussed the CH is the same as the H in Mohammad so the word is MAHAMAD!

Finally, the vowels are agreed by Biblical scholars to have been inserted much later in history. So the actualy word is MHMD. This is exactly how the word Mohammad is written in Hebrew. In other words, if the Bible was to mention the name of Prophet Mohammad pbuh, it would be mentioned as MHMD, and this is the case in Shir Hashirim.
Also, the name of the song is very intresting. The original name was Shir Hashirim, which means Song of Hashirim. The IM as we have already shown is a sign of respect, so it's actually Shir Hashir, meaning Song of Hashir.
In Sunan Tirmidhi (a famous Hadith book) we read that one of the names of Prophet Mohammad pbuh was Hashir !!!
Shir Hashirim also gives a description of MHMD, which fits in exactly with the description of Prophet Mohammad pbuh as recorded in the Hadith books. If anyone is intrested, I can give more detail.

Peace unto those who follow the Guidance

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Angela
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Quote Angela Replybullet Posted: 13 September 2006 at 11:14am

We've already discussed this subject in another forum. 

http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6169& ;PN=2

 

The Song of Solomon is not recognized as a divine work by my Church and its origins are questionable.  I highly doubt a moral Man like Muhammed would be mentioned in such a book.  Its probably mere coincidence and really is in my opinion disrespectful to the Prophet Muhammed. 

I can understand the interpretations of him as the Comforter foretold by Jesus in the New Testament.  Or the Prophet like unto Moses promised in the Old Testament.  But if you've ever read the Song of Solomon....this is not a place to find references to pious and morally upright Prophets. 

 

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Sawtul Khilafah
 
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Quote Sawtul Khilafah Replybullet Posted: 13 September 2006 at 4:27pm
Originally posted by Angela

The Song of Solomon is not recognized as a divine work by my Church and its origins are questionable. 

Assalamu Alaykum

The Song of Solomon, also known as Song of Songs or Shir Hashirim IS a part of the Bible and you can find it in ANY Bible in the Old Testament.

Also, it is not talking about a woman in Chapter 5 of the book, and it's Chapter 5 that we are concerned with.

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Sawtul Khilafah
 
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Quote Sawtul Khilafah Replybullet Posted: 13 September 2006 at 4:31pm

Bismillahirrahmaanerraheem

The name MHMD (Mohammad) is certainly in the Bible, in the "Song of Songs", also known as "the song of Solomon", the correct name being "Shir Hashirim". This book is in the Old Testament and is agreed upon by both Christians and Jews and you can find it in ANY Bible.

The song (at least chapter 5) is not about a woman, neither has it anything to do with Prophet Solomon (Sulayman) peace be upon him.


Now let us see who this person is... who is MHMD ? What is his description?
Let's continue reading the Song of Songs/Shir Hashirim:

SONG OF SONGS 5:10
"My beloved is white and ruddy, the chiefest among ten thousand."

Now let us compare this with the description of Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) in the Hadith:
HADEETH ON WHITE AND RUDDY (reddish) SKIN:
Rosy color [Sahih Bukhari 4:747];
"White man reclining on his arm" [Sahih Bukhari, 1:63];
Whiteness of his armpits [Sahih Muslim, 4:1000];
Whiteness of his legs [Sahih Muslim, 4:1014, 19:4437];
Whiteness of his cheek [Sahih Muslim 4:1208];
Whiteness of his belly [Sahih Muslim 19:4442].
In all these narrations his whiteness is pointed out as something exceptional for an Arab.

HADEETH ON "THE CHIEFEST AMONG TEN THOUSAND":

"The Prophet left Medina (for Mecca) IN THE COMPANY OF TEN THOUSAND (Muslim warriors) in Ramadan" [Sahih Bukhari 5:574]
Also see Sahih Bukhari 5:622; 626

SONG OF SONGS 5:11
"His head is as the most fine gold, his locks are bushy, and black as a raven."

"His hair GLOSSY AND BLACK, INCLINED TO CURL, he wore long." [Zad al Ma`d 2:45]
"His head was large, well formed and set on a slender neck." [Zad al Ma`ad 2:45]
"When he (The Prophet, May Allah peace and blessings be upon him) died, HE HAD SCARCELY TWENTY WHITE HAIRS IN HIS HEAD AND BEARD." [Sahih Bukhari 4:747,748]
"Anas was asked about the old age of Allah's Apostle (May Allah peace and blessings be upon him). He said, 'ALLAH DID NOT BLEMISH HIM WITH WHITE HAIR." [Sahih Muslim 30:5784]
"I said to him: O son of my brother, the hair of the Messenger of Allah (May the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) was THICKER THAN YOUR HAIR AND THEY WERE FINER (than yours)." [Sahih Muslim, 3:642]

SONG OF SONGS 5:12
"His eyes are as the eyes of doves by the rivers of waters, washed with milk, and fitly set."

"He had black attractive eyes finely arched by continuous eyebrows." [Zad al Ma`d 2:45]

"Allah's Messenger (May the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) had a broad face with REDDISH (wide) EYES.." [Sahih Muslim 30:5776] (Note: Doves have reddish eyes.)

SONG OF SONGS 5:13
"His cheeks are as a bed of spices, as sweet flowers: his lips like lilies, dropping sweet smelling myrrh."

"He (The Prophet, May the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) also patted my cheek and I experienced a coolness or a fragrance of his hand as if it had been brought out from the scent bag of a
perfumer." [Sahih Muslim, 30:5758]

"I never smelt ambergris or musk as fragrant as the fragrance of the body of Allah's Messenger (May the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him)." [Sahih Muslim, 30:5759]

"I never smelt musk or ambergris and found its fragrance as sweet as the fragrance of Allah's Messenger (May the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him)." [Sahih Muslim 30:5760]

"Allah's Messenger (May the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) had the most handsome face amongst men." [Sahih Muslim 30:5772]

SONG OF SONGS 5:14
"His hands are as gold rings set with the beryl: his belly is as bright ivory overlaid with sapphires."

"The Prophet had big hands, and I have never seen anybody like him after him" [Sahih Muslim 7:792]

"I never touched brocade and silk (and found it) as soft as the softness of the palm of Allah's Messenger (May the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him)" [Sahih Muslim, 30:5760]

"WHITENESS OF HIS BELLY" [Sahih Muslim 19:4442]


SONG OF SONGS 5:15
"His legs are as pillars of marble, set upon sockets of fine gold: his countenance is as Lebanon, excellent as the cedars."

"He (The Prophet, May the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) was innocently bright and had BROAD COUNTENANCE." [Zad al Ma`ad 2:45]

"..my knee touched the thigh of the Prophet of Allah (May the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him). The wrapper got aside from his thigh, and I could see its whiteness." [Sahih Muslim 19:4437]


Notice all the above are from the same Chapter. Finally we get to verse 16, where it says:
His conversation is sweetness itself, he is MACHAMADIM, such is my beloved oh daughters of Jerusalem.

As we've already seen on my previous post, Machamadim is the same as Mohammad.

We also mentioned that the song's name is Shir Hashirim, and that Hashir is one of the names of Prophet Mohammad (pbuh). Here is the Hadith:

"Abu Musa al Ash`ari reported that Allah's Messenger (May the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) mentioned many names of his and said, 'I am Mohammad, Ahmad. Muqaffi, Hashir, the Prophet of
Repentance, and the Prophet of Mercy." [Sahih Muslim, 30:5813]



After the coming of Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) some Christians and Jews have tried to alter the meaning of the Songs of Songs...some say it's about a Woman!! Most Christians say it's about the Church, and most Jews say it's about God!!

Let's see what classical Jewish scholars had to say about this book (song of songs/shir hashirim):
"The whole world is not worth the day on which the Song of Songs was given to Israel; for all the writings are holy, but the Song of Songs is the holiest of the holy."
[Rabbi Akiva (died AD 135), Tractate of Yaddayim (3:5), Mishna]


"...and the book itself as an allegory depicting in great detail the experiences of the nation in its relations with its God from the Exodus down to *THE COMING OF THE MESSIAH AND THE BUILDING OF THE THIRD TEMPLE.* This in general is also the interpretation of the Midrash Rabbah and such famous scholars as Saadia ben Joseph, Rashi, and Ibn Ezra, although they differ considerably among themselves in details."
[The Interpreter's Bible Encyclopedia]


Ofcourse, Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) is not the Messiah, and ofcourse the Song of Songs never says it is about the coming of the Messiah, but let us remember that Jews often referred to future Prophet/prophets as "Messiah". The "Third Temple" mentioned here is none other than Ka'bah in Meccah.

This so-called "Third Temple" is mentioned in other parts of the Bible as the Next house of God (which is a better description of Ka'bah).
In another book of the Old Testament, Haggai, we read:
Haggai 2:7 "And I will shake all nations, AND THE DESIRE OF ALL NATIONS SHALL COME: and I will fill this house with glory saith the Lord of hosts."

In place of "desire of all nations", the Hebrew text uses one single word: "CHMD" which is pronouncable as "ACHMAD" (which is "AHMAD" in Arabic). Thus, the translation would be, "And I will shake all nations, AND AHMAD SHALL COME: and I will fill this house with glory saith the Lord of hosts."

Immediately after that, Haggai 2:9 says "The glory of this latter house shall be greatesr than the former: and in this place will I give PEACE, saith the Lord of hosts."

And we know that one of the meanings of ISLAM is Peace.


Infact, there is more, there is another chapter of the Bible that gives a perfect description of Prophet Mohammad's Hijrah. But for now, this is enough.

Peace unto those who follow the Guidance



Edited by Sawtul Khilafah
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Angela
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Quote Angela Replybullet Posted: 13 September 2006 at 5:42pm

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/bd/s/94

Song of Solomon

Sometimes called Canticles (as in Latin) or Song of Songs (as in Hebrew). Whether Solomon is actually the author is doubtful. The composition has many beautiful phrases and lyrical prose, often quoted in nonreligious literature. The JST manuscript contains the note that “the Song of Solomon is not inspired scripture.” Both Jews and Christians have at times been reluctant to accept it into the canon of scripture because of its romantic content, but have permitted it on the basis of its being an allegory of God’s love for Israel and/or of the Church.
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Sawtul Khilafah
 
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Quote Sawtul Khilafah Replybullet Posted: 04 March 2007 at 3:38pm
This a very important thread, it took me a very long time to research this material (some of it I found on other websites while others I discovered for myself) so I hope more people ,especially non-Muslims, would read this.
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Quote Patty Replybullet Posted: 05 March 2007 at 9:13am

Since I have heard many times that muslims believe the Bible to be corrupt, why would any muslim decide that the Song of Solomon is somehow "uncorrupt"?  How can you decide what is, and what is not the truth?

I have many answers from the Bible scholars regarding the Song of Solomon, but I think this would be better placed in Islam Interfaith Topics.  The Song is not referring to Mohammed.

Respectfully yours,



Edited by Patty
Patty

I don't know what the future holds....but I know who holds the future.
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BMZ
 
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Quote BMZ Replybullet Posted: 05 March 2007 at 4:01pm
Originally posted by Angela

We've already discussed this subject in another forum. 

http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6169& ; ;PN=2

 

The Song of Solomon is not recognized as a divine work by my Church and its origins are questionable.  I highly doubt a moral Man like Muhammed would be mentioned in such a book.  Its probably mere coincidence and really is in my opinion disrespectful to the Prophet Muhammed. 

I can understand the interpretations of him as the Comforter foretold by Jesus in the New Testament.  Or the Prophet like unto Moses promised in the Old Testament.  But if you've ever read the Song of Solomon....this is not a place to find references to pious and morally upright Prophets. 

 

Agreed and that is not the place to find the prophet foretold. You guys at LDS are well-read.

Shasta's Aunt: "Well, there's the difference you see. The Bible was written by man about God, The Quran was revealed to man by God."
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