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Islam for non-Muslims
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Message Icon Topic: Sharia: Coerced Conversion Binding? Post Reply Post New Topic
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ejdavid
 
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Quote ejdavid Replybullet Topic: Sharia: Coerced Conversion Binding?
    Posted: 28 August 2006 at 12:22pm
Sirs:

Two Fox News reporters recently converted to Islam at gun point. Does Sharia law provide that these conversions are binding?
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Andalus
 
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Quote Andalus Replybullet Posted: 28 August 2006 at 7:16pm

Originally posted by ejdavid

Sirs:

Two Fox News reporters recently converted to Islam at gun point. Does Sharia law provide that these conversions are binding?

No.

It would be similar to cases where Christian missionaries target desperate people in desperate lands, and under the gun of starvation, will accept Christianity. Islam considers any conversion to a faith under the flag of duress as invalid.

A feeling of discouragement when you slip up is a sure sign that you put your faith in deeds. -Ibn 'Ata'llah
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ejdavid
 
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Quote ejdavid Replybullet Posted: 29 August 2006 at 5:38am
Andalus - You wrote: "It would be similar to cases where Christian missionaries target desperate people in desperate lands, and under the gun of starvation, will accept Christianity. Islam considers any conversion to a faith under the flag of duress as invalid."

One big difference. These missionaries offer food, not a bullet through the head. In addition, if you ask those people if they consider themselves Christian most would say yes. These Christians are bribed to be Christians, not threatened.

Big difference.
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peacemaker
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Quote peacemaker Replybullet Posted: 29 August 2006 at 6:00am

Originally posted by ejdavid

Andalus - You wrote: "It would be similar to cases where Christian missionaries target desperate people in desperate lands, and under the gun of starvation, will accept Christianity. Islam considers any conversion to a faith under the flag of duress as invalid."

One big difference. These missionaries offer food, not a bullet through the head. In addition, if you ask those people if they consider themselves Christian most would say yes. These Christians are bribed to be Christians, not threatened.

Big difference.

Or offer slow death by refusing to give food to those who are starving if they decide not to convert and thus cause them death.

Those missionaries must be happy for so many "liberated" souls in poor and troubled places around the world

ejdavid, this section is where you can sincerely ask questions to learn about Islam. This is not the place to tell us how morally superior missionaries are compared to others. Your question was answered by Brother Andalus: "Islam considers any conversion to a faith under the flag of duress as invalid."

Peace

Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny?
Qur'an 55:13
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Knowledge01
 
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Quote Knowledge01 Replybullet Posted: 29 August 2006 at 9:22am
Originally posted by ejdavid

Sirs:

Two Fox News reporters recently converted to Islam at gun point. Does Sharia law provide that these conversions are binding?



No.  Shahadah is from the heart.  Anything else is not accepted by Allah until the intention is pure.
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Andalus
 
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Quote Andalus Replybullet Posted: 29 August 2006 at 11:31am

Originally posted by ejdavid

Andalus - You wrote: "It would be similar to cases where Christian missionaries target desperate people in desperate lands, and under the gun of starvation, will accept Christianity. Islam considers any conversion to a faith under the flag of duress as invalid."

One big difference. These missionaries offer food, not a bullet through the head.

Starvation is the bullet.

The Food is the protection.

The protection comes at the price of accepting their beliefs.

The differences are subtle, but the principle is identical.

 

In addition, if you ask those people if they consider themselves Christian most would say yes. These Christians are bribed to be Christians, not threatened.

Contradiction. How can someone who is of a thing be bried to be of the thing?

This very irrational statement implies that you are full aware of the deception, and wish to white wash it.

 



Big difference.

Not by a long shot!  

A feeling of discouragement when you slip up is a sure sign that you put your faith in deeds. -Ibn 'Ata'llah
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Angela
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Quote Angela Replybullet Posted: 29 August 2006 at 11:58am

I have to agree with this one.  That is why my church sends humanitarian aid in without missionaries.  We often send our food and supplies through Islamic foundations so that there is no coercion or expectation attached to the aid.

Its also why I shy away from places like Christian Children's Fund.  My humanitarian aid should not come with strings.

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ejdavid
 
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Quote ejdavid Replybullet Posted: 29 August 2006 at 12:30pm
Peacemaker - you wrote: "...this section is where you can sincerely ask questions to learn about Islam. This is not the place to tell us how morally superior missionaries are compared to others."

I said missionarries who bribe with food ARE superior to those who coerce with guns. The wording of your post indicates you dissagree?

In addition, Christian missionaries do not impose famine upon anyone. They simply offer a way out of existing poverty with food. If they had enough food, they could bribe half the world, but the limit themselves to their existing resources. These resources clearly REDUCE the incidence of famine in the places the operate.

Further, Islamic charities do the same. Saudi charities and individuals endow madrasses in various countries that offer poor people lodging, board, and religious education for free or for low prices.

If a Christian decided to convert to Islam to obtain these benefits, I do not believe the madrass authorities would consider the conversion invalid. Would you? Furthermore, I do not believe those madrasses impose poverty or death on those who do not choose the offer.
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