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People of the Book |
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DavidC 
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Male Christian Joined: 20 September 2001 Location: Florida USA Status: Offline Points: 2474 |
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 Posted: 17 August 2006 at 3:53am |
The Qu'ran includes Christians specifically, doesn't it? And many Christian denominations reject the concept of a Trinity. |
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Christian; Wesleyan M.Div.
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BMZ
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Joined: 03 April 2006 Status: Offline Points: 1852 |
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Posted: 17 August 2006 at 4:59am |
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Cyril, From you: "I see that you disagree with Imam Malik Ibn Anas one of Islam's greatest scholars. He included the Zoroastrians as People of the Book." I am not aware of that. Could you please quote me on that. As far as my knowledge is concerned, Zoroastrians are not the People of the Book. Zoroaster (Zartasht in Persian), the founder, was a good man. Modern day followers of Zartasht are known as Parsis. I can disagree with an Imam but I can't and dare not disagree with God Almighty. Only people from the Abrahamic religions are considered "People of the Book". They must have belief in One God only. Zoroastrians believe that their Good God is rivalled by another Evil God and there is a tussle between Good and Evil. In all messages and teachings of Jesus, one does not find Trinity taught by him at all. I agree with David that many Christian denominations reject the concept of Trinity. Moreover, the Christian Scriptures do have the messages of God as taught by Jesus and most of the messages from the Torah were aslo taught and preached by Jesus. Since Trinity is no where to be found in the direct teachings of Jesus, the Christians are still considered as People of the Book. BMZ Edited by bmzsp |
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Cyril
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Joined: 08 May 2006 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 176 |
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Posted: 17 August 2006 at 8:05am |
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BMZ
Let's first agree on the following: the Quran mentions Jews, Christians and Sabians as People of the Book. Zoroastrianism has evolved along the centuries (aka Mazdeism and Parsism for example) and in one of its form it was a dualism (a God of Good vs a God of Evil). So I think rather like you, it does not seem to be a pure monotheism and even not a monotheism at all. As there must have been several types of Zoroastrians, some of them must have passed themselves as monotheists so that Imam Malik counted them among the People of the Book (see People of the Book wikipedia). I also heard that Zoroastrians were sometimes mixed up with Sabians. So we arrive to the question: who were the Sabians? Some say they are the Mandaeans. Were Mandaeans monotheists? Or dualists? About Christianity: Your quote: "In all messages and teachings of Jesus, one does not find Trinity taught by him at all." We are not going to start a basic course in Christianity, but saying such a thing is considering the over two billions Christians as idiots. Can Christians believe in something which is not described in Christian scriptures? That is nonsense. Your quote:" I agree with David that many Christian denominations reject the concept of Trinity." Which denominations? I live in Europe in a Christian surrounding and never heard about them. Edited by Cyril |
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BMZ
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Posted: 17 August 2006 at 9:39am |
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Cyril, Sabeans were Monotheistic and about a few years ago, they found an entire group living in Iraq. I do not know much about their beliefs. I have come across Christians, never asked them for their denominations, but some confirm that there is only one God and they consider Jesus only as a Son of God. I have found some who even maintain the Sabbath exactly as the Jews do. Some Christians that I spoke to consider Jesus as an intercessor between man and God only. Of course the majority is not idiot and believes in Trinity but my point was that Jesus did NOT teach that. About 1.5 billion Hindus of India, Burma, Bangladesh, Nepal and other Asian states believe in their own ancientTrinity. Certainly we cannot call them idiots. I have read the Bible well and did not read or see a single sentence in which Jesus himself clearly said, "I am the Son of God" or "I am God". That is what I meant. Edited by bmzsp |
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Patty
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Joined: 14 September 2001 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2382 |
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Posted: 17 August 2006 at 4:20pm |
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bmz said: "I have read the Bible well and did not read or see a single sentence in which Jesus himself clearly said, "I am the Son of God" or "I am God". That is what I meant." Jesus spoke many times in parables. But it was obvious what He meant. I know you are familiar with his response to Phillip in the Gospel of John, when Phillips asked Him to "show us the Father." We know what he meant when he said "you've seen me, you've seen the father." There is no doubt what He meant. Or when He told His disciples that He would send the Paraclete or the Holy Spirit to comfort us. He talked many times about His father who was in Heaven. That means He is the Son of God the Father. But we can just beat this to death if we really try, can't we bmz? God's Peace Always!!
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Patty
I don't know what the future holds....but I know who holds the future. |
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BMZ
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Posted: 17 August 2006 at 5:15pm |
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Patty, "But we can just beat this to death if we really try, can't we bmz? Yes, we can. How is your dear father, Patty? God bless and my best wishes. BMZ |
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Patty
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Joined: 14 September 2001 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2382 |
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Posted: 17 August 2006 at 5:31pm |
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Dear BMZ, My precious father died on July 8. I am actually devastated by his death. This site is very therapeutic for me, and I'm in grief therapy. The good Muslims here had a wonderful, quite beautiful memorial set up to my Dad at the time of his death. I had to fly home, but I checked on it nearly every day. It is still on here. I'm glad his suffering is over.....but I just can't believe he's gone. (I was a "daddy's girl"....we did everything together when I was a kid, and I guess I stayed a little girl to him.) He was a wonderful, loving, kind man who never hated anyone in his life. He never knew a stranger. I am truly "lost" right now. But I have my faith and I believe in time I will feel happiness again. I know my Dad is with our loving God, and that is what gets me through this right now. Thank you so much for asking, bmz! |
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Patty
I don't know what the future holds....but I know who holds the future. |
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BMZ
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Posted: 17 August 2006 at 11:17pm |
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Dear Patty, That is a huge loss and my sincere condolences to you and family. I can understand the pain. may God give you that strength to bear this loss. If you are 18-20, I would love to be your daddy. Smile. Best Regards BMZ |
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Cyril wrote:
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