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Does the New Testament teach that Jesus ?
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Angela View Drop Down
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    Posted: 23 July 2005 at 11:21pm

Its "active" but right now I'm the only "member".  I have not sent out invitations because I'm hoping to build in links like the one you've given me, also build some pages for the site.  Right now, its just a bare group with a forum and a chatroom.  I'm hoping to set up my home computer in the next week or two and start making the pages.  Currently I'm restricted by what I can do from my work computer.  But, thank you for the link.  It will help tremendously.  If you'd like to join, just go to to the link in my signature and sign up.  Or PM me with your email address and I'll send you and invite.  I could always use help with the planned Islamic side of the site.  I'll be able to handle the Christian side without too much problem.

Angela
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AhmadJoyia View Drop Down
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Sis Angela, the following website link not only provides English translation of Quran by three different translators but also provide some powerfull english translational search tool as well. Hopefully this shall suffice all your needs.

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/

BTW, may I know your website as the one mentioned in your signature block is still not active yet? Am I correct?



Edited by AhmadJoyia
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Angela View Drop Down
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Yes, please, I would love some good links.  I'll be able to use them on my website too then.  Thank you.
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AhmadJoyia View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Angela Angela wrote:

AhmadJoyia,

I want to thank you so much for your reply.  I enjoyed reading the passages you posted here and now I cannot wait until my copy of the Quran comes in the mail from C.A.I.R.  I am looking forward to reading your Holy Book.  It is wonderful to see that even if the nature of Jesus is different, the messages are still there.  In both of our faiths, Jesus' greatest example is his obedience to God. 

Matthew 26:39  And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

Angela

My sis Angela,

All thanks belong to Allah and Allah alone who has bestowed His mercy by sending rightous Prophets to guide us to the right direction.

Yes, it is indeed a common point of unification between Muslims and Christians when we realize that after all we all have the same God, the God to whom Prophet Jesus also used to pray. May our God give us wisdom to find the true path. Amin.

Note. There are certain online English translations of Quran and if you are interested, I shall post their address for you. 
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Noah View Drop Down
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Peace be upon you all

Quote Now for at least 1500 years before Jesus there were various mystery cults in the Middle East that had a figure was the son of God who was born of a virgin who died and was sacrificed then resurrected and brought blessings. Among those were the cults of Osiris,Apis and Dionysus. Now it just so happened that St. Paul had been a member of one or more of those cults. Therefore when Jesus was crucified it was easy for him to see this myth in him. He then went from a Prophet and Rabbi into a savior.


Excactly. The Jesus myth is nothing more than pagan sun worship im sorry to say so. The bible is called the greatest story ever told, not the greatest collection of facts. He is horus, he is krishna, he is mithra, he is excactly 16 different ancient dietys, that is who he is.

This is why he was seen on a cloud as he left, and he will be seen on a cloud as he return. This is why they always have (12 deciples. 12 months, 12 hours, 12 signs of the zodiac). This is why they walk on water (reflection, morning evening), This is why they always die on a cross (look at the zodiac, there you ahve the sun on the cross, the most ancient symbol in the whole world, and this is why you will find it on many churches), this is why they are always the light of the world, and they are always part of a triune god. You dont belive me? Brhamha, vishnu, shiva. Osiris, Hours, Isis. And the triune god is, is have never been, anything else than the sun in the morning, the sun during mid day, and the sun in the evening. And then depending on the different cults from various areas other pagan belief systems, they had some unique characters.

But if you look at the Bible as a book of astrology, and ancients belief systems. It is truely amazingly put together. all this comotion about the struggle about what gospels should be put in. I dont belive it for a moment. There are 4 gospels, like there are 4 seasons. Each gospel tell the tale of the suns walk through the houses in the zodiac, both on a yearly scale and the bible as a whole, on a much largescale of 1000's of years. Whoever put together the bible, knew what they where doing, and when you understand that. its incredible.

However, it does not in anyway remove the fact that this.



Is Jesus as presented today. Gods SUN, not son.

Peace
Noah
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Angela View Drop Down
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Points: 2555 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Angela Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 July 2005 at 11:22pm

AhmadJoyia,

I want to thank you so much for your reply.  I enjoyed reading the passages you posted here and now I cannot wait until my copy of the Quran comes in the mail from C.A.I.R.  I am looking forward to reading your Holy Book.  It is wonderful to see that even if the nature of Jesus is different, the messages are still there.  In both of our faiths, Jesus' greatest example is his obedience to God. 

Matthew 26:39  And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

Angela
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AhmadJoyia View Drop Down
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Sis Angela

Here are few verses of Quran pertaining to the ministry of Jesus especially about the virgin birth of Jesus. Kindly note that named YUSUFALI in bold at the begining of each verse is the name of the translator and signify nothing else.

003.045

YUSUFALI: Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah;

003.046
YUSUFALI: "He shall speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. And he shall be (of the company) of the righteous."

003.047
YUSUFALI: She said: "O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man hath touched me?" He said: "Even so: Allah createth what He willeth: When He hath decreed a plan, He but saith to it, 'Be,' and it is!
003.048
YUSUFALI: "And Allah will teach him the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel,
 003.049
YUSUFALI: "And (appoint him) a messenger to the Children of Israel, (with this message): "'I have come to you, with a Sign from your Lord, in that I make for you out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by Allah's leave: And I heal those born blind, and the lepers, and I quicken the dead, by Allah's leave; and I declare to you what ye eat, and what ye store in your houses. Surely therein is a Sign for you if ye did believe;
003.050
YUSUFALI: "'(I have come to you), to attest the Law which was before me. And to make lawful to you part of what was (Before) forbidden to you; I have come to you with a Sign from your Lord. So fear Allah, and obey me.
 003.051
YUSUFALI: "'It is Allah Who is my Lord and your Lord; then worship Him. This is a Way that is straight.'"
003.052
YUSUFALI: When Jesus found Unbelief on their part He said: "Who will be My helpers to (the work of) Allah?" Said the disciples: "We are Allah's helpers: We believe in Allah, and do thou bear witness that we are Muslims.
 003.053
YUSUFALI: "Our Lord! we believe in what Thou hast revealed, and we follow the Messenger; then write us down among those who bear witness."
 003.054
YUSUFALI: And (the unbelievers) plotted and planned, and Allah too planned, and the best of planners is Allah.
003.055
YUSUFALI: Behold! Allah said: "O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject faith, to the Day of Resurrection: Then shall ye all return unto me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute.
003.056
YUSUFALI: "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."
003.057
YUSUFALI: "As to those who believe and work righteousness, Allah will pay them (in full) their reward; but Allah loveth not those who do wrong."
 003.058
YUSUFALI: "This is what we rehearse unto thee of the Signs and the Message of Wisdom."
003.059
YUSUFALI: The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was.
 003.060
YUSUFALI: The Truth (comes) from Allah alone; so be not of those who doubt.



Edited by AhmadJoyia
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Angela View Drop Down
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Okay, here goes.  I'm going to add a facet to this thread based on my own church.  I belong to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.  We do not believe in a Trinity as Robin has described or the original sin that many born agains claims needs washed with baptism, though we do believe Jesus was the Son of God and the Messiah.  Although, we teach a pre-mortal existence.  I have never been able to understand the Trinity as other Christian Churches teach the Trinity.  Ultimately, that is what caused the Great Schism between the Eastern Orthodox Church and the Roman Catholic Church in 1054.  Our Church separates God, the Son and the Holy Spirit into three distinct entities.  They are only One in purpose, not in being.  The Son offered to come to earth and do Gods will on earth and thus God was Supreme and Jesus was doing the will of the Father.  The Holy Spirit gave up his chance to come to Earth and receive a body in order to do God's work as the Voice of God.  Jesus does not claim to be a God in the New Testament, only the Son of God, the word made flesh, he is there doing the bidding of God. 

Now, having said that, discussing the Nature of Jesus and the Atonement on an Islamic website is a futile thing.  In order to understand any of the foundations of Christianity, you have to understand WHY Jesus was sent and died. To understand the New Testament you must at least accept the theory that Jesus was the Son of God, conceived by Mary the Virgin and that he was sent to save all mankind from death.  If you cannot grasp that concept, none of the rest of it will make sense.  Since he was a prophet, teacher and example to Muslims, what we Christians believe about him is moot.  I believe in Prophets still living, that is a foreign concept to Muslims as I have seen in another forum.  When I opened this thread I thought it was a Muslim asking a question of Christians, but when I saw that Robin is Christian, I suddenly became confused what this thread was doing here.  I don't necessarily subscribe to what Islamicgirl said about it having no place here, but its a touchy subject because its the major difference in alot of contentions even among Christian Denominations.  The Nature of the Godhead and Jesus are best left to a Christian website.  In the end, to a muslim, Jesus (Isa) was a great prophet, who did not die but was spared by a loving and merciful god.  There will never be a different determination on this website. 

I do have an off topic quickie question though?  What does the Quran say about the Virgin Birth of Jesus?    Since I'm more curious as to what Islam says about Isa's life and death.

 

 
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