Interesting Statement by Annie2 |
Post Reply | Page <12345 11> |
Author | ||
Mishmish
Senior Member Joined: 01 November 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1694 |
Posted: 22 June 2006 at 3:53pm | |
Annie: We believe that Mohammed was a Prophet of God. We do not believe Mohammed was God incarnate, nor even divine. There is a HUGE difference in believing a man is a Messenger or Prophet of God and believing a man is God. At least in my mind there is. To believe that God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are three yet all fully God is to associate partners with God. There is God who is God, there is Jesus who is God, and there is the Holy Spirirt who is God. Three, not One. I think by stating that there is only One God and I am that God, many times, God is stating there is no tri-unity. Otherwise He would have stated I am God, a Triune. At least once, don't you think? Just to make it official? Even if Jesus said he was the son of God, how do you go from that to Jesus is God? That's a huge leap. Jesus never said there wouldn't be another Prophet after him. Don't you call that affirmation by silence, or something like that? Jesus never said he had completed God's religion either. Jesus never said he was God. Jesus never said eat pork. So many things Jesus never said.
|
||
It is only with the heart that one can see clearly, what is essential is invisible to the eye. (The Little Prince)
|
||
Aquinian
Guest Group Joined: 09 June 2006 Status: Offline Points: 61 |
Posted: 22 June 2006 at 4:09pm | |
This depends largely on the person receiving the teaching material. If the person has faith, the lesson comes easy. I never thought it necessary to "teach" religion though, but I digress once again. If an atheist read the Koran, the atheist would find no logic in the belief system of Islam. Most religions are not based in logic because, at some point, one must admit that there is something supernatural which cannot be explained by mankind. The existence of God, or, the "first mover" as Aquinas said, is that which cannot be explained by mankind. Aquinas' attempt to prove the existence of God was brilliant and bold, but it fails for the simple reason that the most dull thoughts of God are beyond the greatest thoughts man will ever have - we cannot prove His existence with our meager supply of knowledge. But, why should we need to? Pure logic deems that things for which we have no proof are irrational to believe. Because there is no real proof that God created the world, it is irrational to believe in Him, so the argument goes. We have "more logical" ways of explaining the beginning of the universe than God, the argument goes. Now, when you open your faith up to the conjecture of logic, you quickly find that faith is illogical. Belief in Islam is illogical, purely speaking. This doesn't mean that, once you've accepted that God is the creator and sustainer of the universe, you can't make logical arguments about His purpose for us. But, this is a difficult place to come to when we consider traditional philosophy - it is very difficult to make a reasoned argument in favor of the existence of God. Many have been made before and after Aquinas but few have been 100% convincing to all mankind, which is obvious. Rather than open up God to the reason and logic of this world, logic which He cannot be limited by, I think it is more appropriate to understand His true nature as defined by God on Earth, Jesus Christ. No other faith makes this claim as convincingly; namely, that God came to Earth and gave us his true nature through the simple words of a carpenter. |
||
Mishmish
Senior Member Joined: 01 November 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1694 |
Posted: 22 June 2006 at 4:22pm | |
"No other faith makes this claim as convincingly; namely, that God came to Earth and gave us his true nature through the simple words of a carpenter." I believe the faith claims what Jesus did not. |
||
It is only with the heart that one can see clearly, what is essential is invisible to the eye. (The Little Prince)
|
||
Mishmish
Senior Member Joined: 01 November 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1694 |
Posted: 22 June 2006 at 4:28pm | |
Actually, when you look around, logically it is almost impossible not to believe in God. To believe that a random set of circumstances occurred which caused creation is rather ludicrous. That quite by accident, we just are. If evolution is a fact, then why aren't humans still evolving from lower forms of life? In the thousands of years that man has been recording history, why has nothing evolved to a point of being recognised as such by man? Anyway, this topic has strayed and Annie still has not answered the original question...
Edited by Mishmish |
||
It is only with the heart that one can see clearly, what is essential is invisible to the eye. (The Little Prince)
|
||
Aquinian
Guest Group Joined: 09 June 2006 Status: Offline Points: 61 |
Posted: 22 June 2006 at 5:48pm | |
Well, let's consider what Jesus did claim: John 14:5 - Thomas said to him, "Lord, we don't know where you are going, so how can we know the way?" 6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7If you really knew me, you would know[b] my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him." 8Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us." 9Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. Christ says that anyone who has seen him has seen the Father. This "claim" implies that he and God the father are on in the same. This might be the illogical nature of Christianity that you were referring to. The central tenets of Christianity do not differ at all from what Jesus is saying in John 14. I have trouble understanding which claims you are referring to that the faith makes that Jesus did not. I also find it interesting that Christ claims "no one goes to the father except through me." What prophet ever made this claim? None. No prophet ever calls God "father." In order to see God, one must first go through Christ, according to Christ himself. Edited by Aquinian |
||
Mishmish
Senior Member Joined: 01 November 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1694 |
Posted: 22 June 2006 at 6:53pm | |
Aquinian: I will ask you as I have asked every other Christian I know: show me in the scriptures where Jesus states: I am God. Show me in the scriptures where God states: I am a trinity/triune/Godhead, I will accept any of these. Just show me in plain language that anyone and everyone can understand: I am God. I am a trinity. If this is fact, it should be clearly spoken. Not alluded to here or there, or some spiritual mystery that mankind has to figure out by reading between the lines. That's all I am asking for. The words clearly spoken: I am God. I am a trinity. |
||
It is only with the heart that one can see clearly, what is essential is invisible to the eye. (The Little Prince)
|
||
AnnieTwo
Senior Member Joined: 26 May 2006 Status: Offline Points: 281 |
Posted: 23 June 2006 at 5:14am | |
Show me in the Scriptures where God says He is not triune in nature. Show me in the Scriptures where Jesus says he is not God. Show me in the Scriptures where Jesus correctly the Jews when they accussed him of being God.
Show me where specifically the in Qur'an that Jesus denies
the Trinity in those exact words.
Show me in the Qur'an
where Jesus denies that God is three Persons in those exact words. Show me in the Qur'an where Jesus denied that He is the Son of God in those exact words. Where does the word "Trinity" appear in the Arabic text of the Qur'an? Where in the Qur'an can I find the Trinity that Christians believe in and where it is exactly refuted.
Why? Edited by AnnieTwo |
||
14If you are reproached for the name of Christ, blessed are you, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests upon you. On their part He is blasphemed, but on your part He is glorified. 1 Peter 4
|
||
Mishmish
Senior Member Joined: 01 November 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1694 |
Posted: 23 June 2006 at 12:52pm | |
Annie: Jesus didn't author the Quran, anymore than he authored any of the scriptures. The Words of the Quran are from God and God clearly states that Jesus was not God, Jesus was not the son of God and that there is no trinity. These have been posted to you before, so you already know this. You can not show me this in the scriptures because it doesn't exist in the scriptures. By stating that just because God didn't deny He is a trinity that it must be so is ridiculous. God also didn't deny that He is Osiris, does that make it so? God didn't deny He is Buddha, does that make it so? Are you trying to say that Christianity is a religion of lack of denial? As long as God didn't deny something, we should accept it? Edited by Mishmish |
||
It is only with the heart that one can see clearly, what is essential is invisible to the eye. (The Little Prince)
|
||
Post Reply | Page <12345 11> |
Tweet
|
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |