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My maleness is down the drain...

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Megatron View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Megatron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 June 2006 at 2:09am
Cassandra and Mishmish,

You may think my theories are "nonsense" in this day and age.  The reason you don't hear these beliefs is that it is not politically correct.  It does not rob them of their truth.  Many people believe what I do.  I just had the guts to say it. 

Guess what?  Most CEOs are men.  Of the Fortune 500 companies, guess how many CEOs are women?  One!! Just One!!!  Most leaders of countries are male.  Presidents, prime ministers, chancellors etc. are mostly male.  In fact a female leader is an exception to the rule.  As far as genius goes, the term genius is very subjective.  But I ask you, in music, art, mathematics, and the sciences most of the people lauded for their talent are male.  If you ask someone to name a genius in physics what do they say?  Einstein, Newton.  Very rarely will you hear someone say Marie Curie.  Look at recent Nobel Laureates...most of them are men.

You can crticize me personally till you're blue in the face.  But you cannot deny the stamp that men have made on human civilization.  We have dominated in many respects since the dawn of civilization.  The vast majority of civilizations have had a patriarchical hierarchy.   Read a history book from any country and I guarantee you that the vast majority of notable figures are male.

As for men committing ills as a result of our power.  That is true we have committed wrongs.  But let it be known that women are in no way innocent beings in this world.  Go to Amsterdam's red light district and you can see how innocent they are.

In fact I would go so far as to say that women are just as guilty as men are in debasing women to the inferior status they have had in society.  You women are your own worst enemy.




Edited by Megatron
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foody View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote foody Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 June 2006 at 6:09pm
That is true Jenni in every word you said...sometimes we humans need to take a vacation for being human.....I sure would LOVE that myself.

Edited by foody
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Jenni View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jenni Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 June 2006 at 4:42pm

this debate is simple. some men are good and strong leaders some are not. Some women make better leaders and heads of househould because the men are sinning, or are lazy. It is not rocket science people.

You cant be a good muslim if you are not decent and have a cold heart. Be a decent and kind person and care for women and children and the elderly.
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foody View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote foody Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 June 2006 at 1:08pm
Lameese there is something I would like to tell you that I have not told anyone, I am not most of the men...however, I would like to know my role in this picture in general.  But just to point out to you...as a little boy I NEVER THOUGHT for ones my mom's job was form of oppression, I respected her beyond imagination and always wanted to emulate her...especially in the role of parenting..but as I was graduatlly growing up..I am finding the desire to love my offspring, nurture them, love them always been pushed aside by..no this is the female role, no this is what mothers do...and I feel left out..I feel but that is my baby too are you saying I have no say to my baby because I am a father, then what is my purpose...t...then comes the build up off you should be there but not there confusion.....I start to feel like the thread between me and offspring shrinks as I grow older..no male role model with me and then comes the nice part:

http://newdemocracyworld.org/Culture%20and%20Values/why-fami lies.htm

Quote from the website " DOWNSIZING DAD

Capital is challenging the simple truth that a child's relation with his or her biological father is valuable. The image of fathers has come under increasing attack, as more TV sit-coms feature fathers as incompetents ("The Simpsons" and "King of Queens" are current examples) and movie plots involve abusive fathers (The Breakfast Club, Affliction, and Daredevil to name only a few.) Many courageous women have long been forced by circumstances to raise their children alone. Now, however, as celebrities like Camryn Manheim (Ellenor of TV's hit lawyer show, "The Practice") choose to have and raise babies without a father (both in real life and as her fictional character, in the case of Manheim), Hollywood sends the message, "Who needs a father?" Academics deride fatherhood in books like Feminism, Children, and The New Families, in which Susan E. Krantz dismisses the notion that "two parents are necessary for the well-being of a child" and argues that "the role of the father is overemphasized." Academic "experts" are trying to split off Dad's "male presence" from the rest of him and make it just another commodity. Writing in the Journal of Marriage and the Family, Alan J. Hawkins and David J. Eggenbeen state, "Men may be important to children's healthy development, but biological fathers can readily be replaced by other adult men." (Cited in David Blankenhorn, Fatherless America, p. 80) Stepfathers may be nice people, but the claim that children have no need for a close relation with their biological father cannot bear the weight of common sense or scientific scrutiny.(For example, a study of 17,000 British children born in 1958 showed that children in step-families "experienced far worse outcomes than did children who grew up with their two biological parents." Blankenhorn, p. 191). The "any male will do" notion is ideologically driven by capital's desire to commodify men. This commodification of men is quite apparent in states like Massachusetts, where the "progressive" agenda is well advanced, and divorce courts aggressively separate fathers from their children. (The author has personal experience with Massachusetts' family courts.) Courts routinely restrain fathers from seeing their children, sometimes for years, without due process, evidentiary hearings, or the rules of evidence that are accorded accused criminals. The courts' attitude is that a father's only important relationship to his children is financial, so there's no real loss if a loving father is barred from seeing his children."



As well as downsizing mothers...more and more women feel that motherhood is opression, it easy to get rid of daddy..which it did work.....and now more and more mommy feel mother is A MAN MADE OPRESSION designed to supress women from her full potential. Am I getting this wrong or this again my means of attention? So you are saying we sit quietly by?



And by the way Lamesse if you wish to be the head of the house, be the head of the house...give me your role and I will take it with happiest of smile...there is no better role in life than motherhood, see how I no longer say fatherhood ><. The only condition I have is, if you  desire to get tired of me and wish to divorce me..that I have full custody of the children because I put my life and soul raising them while you went in the work force and provided the income.  Parenthood is the key for happier and longitivity life style if one most know this?



Edited by foody
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Lameese View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lameese Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 June 2006 at 4:57am

Cassandra,

I agree with what you have said but I do believe you are spinning your wheels here. Foody, to me, is, more or less, exhibiting attention seeking behavior. It does not matter what kind of attention he recieves, good or bad, as long as he can argue. He makes these posts about women and femininity and then will argue with whatever is posted.

I think men need to realize that we do not need them, we want them to share our lives. There is a massive difference between need and want. Most men are raised to believe that they are everything in  the family and the wife is, more or less, like a servant. They cook, clean, have babies, and do laundry for the man and the family. Good for you for surviving and making it on your own. Good for you for educating yourself. And cudos to you for raising a family without constant help. You remind me of my mother because she taught all of the girls in our family to get an education that will support them so they can have choices and they will never be stuck in something that they cannot get out of.

Also, culture plays a large part in religion. To me I see culture first with religion mixed in. But it is usually the culture that runs the religion and not the other way around. It is sad really.

Lameese

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Cassandra View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cassandra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 June 2006 at 3:19am

Megatron wrote, and I objected to it strongly: Summmarised

Men are superior to women in many respects...men make the world go around (gee, and they told me it was love! C.)...Men are CEO's, Presidents, Inventors, Geniuses etc.  "Whether it is a question of nature of nurture is up for debate".

I debated it! In a nutshell (and my answer, Foody, was to Megatron, not necessarily you unless you hold the same misguided beliefs).  I said that without mothers, not one of these exalted beings would be here to dominate the world stage, as they have for the thousands of years in which women have been denied  access to education (unless you count "Domestic Science!"), especially at the University level, (and why not add the right to vote).

My answer was largely tongue in cheek, as I couldn't believe there could be anyone still preaching the type of nonsense that Megatron wrote.

Foody, however, does not share my sense of humour, obviously:  He answered: If all (my emphasis)women think men are inferior creatures because they cannot have babies, because their live span are different and because their brain are not female..AND ALL OF THEM WHICH HE HAVE ABSOLUTLEY NO CONTROL OF WHAT SO EVER YET HE IS BLAMED FOR SOMETHING THAT GOD HAVE CREATED HIM...then I SWEAR it....I WILL NEVER MARRY A WOMAN IN MY LIFE.  WHY WOULD I? Give me a reason?

Did I cast aspersions on your masculinity/equality just because you "cannot have babies"? You also implied that I was arrogant.  I have my faults, many of them, but arrogance isn't one of them. I told you a simple truth, Foody, that's all.  And in all honesty, until you get that chip off your shoulder, no woman will want to marry you anyway, so I wouldn't worry yourself about it too much. (i.e. GOD! I give up with the opposite sex and I am not even married yet..yeach!!!!!) You've already decided how bad your marriage is going to be. Do some poor woman a favour, will you.  Don't ever, ever think about marriage again.  You don't have to. Really. I think it's best for everyone's mental health, don't you? Pull back and think before you get too high up on that horse of yours. (Sorry for the mixed metaphors!) By bringing your concerns to this forum, you have invited comments. These are (and were) mine.

We are not all ball-breaking feminists, for heaven's sake. I actually like men.  I respect most, as I respect most women. Some are not worth my attention. I have brought up two children alone with no monetary or emotional support, and am glad to have had the opportunity to become as strong and happy and capable as I am. And no, I only needed my resillience to get there, not a man.  Like it or lump it! I am not angry with my ex-husband (or men in general), just sorry he didn't avail himself of the opportunity to get to know his children (or me) better.  That's all. I put myself through university in my 30's, won lots of scholarships, and came out with two Master's degrees, and a lot of other letters aftrer my name which frankly, make me nervous.  That makes me a well educated, thoughtful, loving, survivor.  Not "superior":  just me.



Edited by Cassandra
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foody View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote foody Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 June 2006 at 7:08pm
Actually the only way I suppose I can be really convinced that men are important and have truly specific role I suppose if we set an island composed soley of women where no men allowed...no  outsider interferance and let them rule.   One might call it female prison cell, but others call it an attempt to see if evolution indeed can do without men all together.  Besides, at least women are no oppressed by men, at least there is no men to blame....and at least like Mishmish said, there will be no wars, atmotic bombs, etc, men forcing women to stay in their homes in name of domination..I mean...according to Mishmish, pregenancy is a form of oppression for women and motherhood are oppression made by men and when Allah said that heaven are underneath the feet of the motherhood, because women have been oppressed for so long BY MEN as men are blamed for everything and allowing women giving birth, right? Instead of sacrificing herself for raising a better future for the society she lives in. Now..when women are liberated from opression, from pregnancy, etc....from motherhood..FROM MEN....there will be no need for this candy sweat where heavens are underneath the feets of the mothers, right? Equality will be completed...scientist discovered that men and women brain are not same...NOOO we cannot have that...no..it is wrong...we must make men brain like the female brain...I like that actually...at least I can feel the feminin side..and screw the masculine side. *EDITED*...finally equality..but there is the problem of skin color..jeeze we are different there...we must be have the same skin color...no..no..it can't be...our heights are different...we must all have the same height..unacceptable...our race is difference..we must be equal on that...OH MY GOD your hair is brown..my hair is black..I WANT TO HAVE brown hair..too...I think a society where there will be no complication is the following:

A) No more males
B) Females only
C) Same skin color, same height, some hair style, same look, same personality, same everything
D) We work together as a female only society that looks alike
E) Ignore what the verses on the quraan...things about male and female..we remove that from quraan
F) Boys get more money than girl (written) on the quraan..we remove that equation..we let girls have 100%
G) If girls wish to be moms...we say no...we have to say no that is male opression even though there is no males on the island...you must love the material world and around it.

Then we can watch and see if the experiment works..if it works...then WE MUST and I will be by their side..enforce it on the world....hopefully there shall be no more violence, everyone will be happy because we are the same, we look the same, we have the same brain, we think the same, we have the same gender and we destroy motherhood as we have succeeded in destroying fatherhood..OFF with men! When Mishmish said me been popular with the ladies , I don't give a damn about that. When I feel and act like a woman, *EDITED*....ewww that is disgusting..ones my brain become feminin instead of masculine....I will have no interest to the female sex for mating reasons...*EDITED*....I will end up sexless really..that is what we should achieve for the male gender.  Back then we used to respect women by opening doors for them, etc, nowadays...she is more of a man than a man..SHE SHOULD open the DOOR for ME!



Edited by amah
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peacemaker View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote peacemaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 June 2006 at 6:27pm

Assalamu Alaikum!

Striving against any injustice is encouraged in Islam. While striving to achieve justice, we have to keep in mind the commands of Allah in Qur�an and life of Prophet ( SAW ). Islam gives specific position to both men and women. Saying that men and women are equal or not equal would not be appropriate comparison. Because Allah has blessed both genders in specific ways, and one is incomplete without another.

In order to give rights to women from oppression of men, it appears that societies are gradually heading to the other extreme. That is not the balanced society.

Men and women both should be given their due respect and rights as per dictates of Islam.

Peace

Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny?
Qur'an 55:13
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