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What proof is there that Muhammad was a p

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airmano View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote airmano Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 February 2018 at 12:26pm
Quote Besides I don't like these (unfair) 'current affairs' debates, because in order to back up any claim, I only have the sources available out there, i.e. world media made, financed and run by biased, anti-islam, anti-religion, islamophobe, anti-god in general and racist individuals or organizations.

Is this the reason why you keep on presenting all these conspiracy theories and why you can't produce any press articles on the state of religious minorities in your country?
Because you have no access to reliable sources to check your claims ?
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Quote Protest marches are good, but swift action is better.

Where was the swift action against the Islamic state ? In the end it were the (rather secular) Kurds doing the job and as a reward they now get battered by another Muslim country. Where was or rather 'is' the swift action to protect Christians, Buddhists and Yazidi against fundamentalist Muslim aggression, may be even in your country ?
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Quote Cultural bias? Yes definitely. The guy is a proud 'Atheist' (BTW: is that how you would describe yourself?). From his various articles: He hates Islam, Muslims, Islamic culture, and the idea of 'God'. You really need to understand this: Having a Muslim name does not make one a Muslim. I can give you countless examples of 'enemies from within'. He even rejects the idea that this genocide was carried out for religious reasons.

Can you distinguish between cultural and religious bias ?
Does the fact that he is an Atheist automatically disqualify him ?

"Enemies from within:" Is it so that you call (and treat !) people which have another opinion ? Just because he (probabaly rightly) thinks your prophet told a lot of nonsense ? Can you understand that I find this, to say the least, "problematic" ?
So yes, can you please prove what you said and give me some examples of "enemies within" ?

Last: I think he is right in pointing out that the origin of the conflict is non-religious and that injecting a religious note (as you do) makes it all worse.
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Slavery: Funny that you cite exactly the same article as the one I gave, apparently you didn't even bother to click it. Well, at least you did some research yourself and I really think that this is encouraging.

Now, I guess from a slave's point of view it didn't really matter whether he was abducted by people who believed in the Quran or those who believed in the Bible. The harsh reality of a slave's life was pretty much the same in both cases.
That the Zanj rebelled the way they did, speaks for itself, despite your embellishing remarks.
And the numbers of slaves taken by Muslims vs. Christians are throughout comparable.
In the end, I don't intend to prove that "the west was better". It is rather this boastful thinking you seem to express -Muslims are better- I'm opposing, simply because it doesn't stand up to the facts.
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Quote Airmano
... and when it comes to Muhammad I invite you to read about the destiny of the Banu Qurayza - from non-Muslim sources...

Miaw:
A word of advice: please change your 'fishing lake'... because you bring too many Red Herrings to this table.

You're a funny chap. On one side you condemn the persecution of the Rohyngas and at the same time you don't even attempt to analyze the first Muslim genocide and slave taking in a serious manner. This just doesn't fit together.

That much about "Islam is justice"
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Here you wrote:
This is no 'superiority complex'... Islam is a 'clean' and 'very reasonable' way of life, for anyone who abides by its rules and follows its teachings properly. I, for one, am very happy with it, and would like nothing more than to be left alone to practice it as required.

I guess that the underlying message of the "left alone" is that someone (the west ?) tries to stop you from doing so.

If this is so, maybe we can find a common plan of action:

I fight for the freedom of religion in the western world, i.e. the right for Muslims to live their religion, even if this includes heavy beard growth and veiled women and in exchange you fight for the freedom of press in the Muslim world, even if this includes the right to print Mohamed riding on a wild boar ?

If I misunderstood the underlying message expressed by your above "left alone" comment, you don't have to reply to this point of course.


Airmano

Edited by airmano - 21 February 2018 at 4:23am
The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses (Albert Einstein 1954, in his "Gods Letter")
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Caringheart View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Caringheart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 February 2018 at 12:03pm
Originally posted by MIAW MIAW wrote:


Allah gave us the same religion as everyone else before us... and some of us are trying to practice it to the best of our ability... in its pure, unchanged form (unlike those before us).


Greetings MIAW,

If only that were true.
Muslims are missing out on so much by not having the Bible,
whereas, I can say, I am missing out on nothing by not having the qur'an.

I've read the qur'an.  Any good in it, is already in the Bible...
but it leaves out so much of the good in the Word of God (i.e., the Bible).

asalaam,
peace and blessings to you,
Caringheart
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
"I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis
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MIAW View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MIAW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 February 2018 at 1:23pm
Originally posted by airmano airmano wrote:

...Where was or rather 'is' the swift action to protect Christians, Buddhists and Yazidi against fundamentalist Muslim aggression...


Anything that I can do to preserve human life and dignity, I do it... and I really do it on the field... unlike 'keyboard warriors' like yourself. I am against the persecution or killing of 'any group of people', including Christians, Buddhists and Yazidi. There are bodies of children being pulled out tonight as we speak from rubble in the aftermath of 'Allied' Bombings in Syria... the other day it was Russian bombing... but I don't think to myself: "fundamentalist Christian aggression". I rather think: 'An aggression on innocents' just like any attack using any weapon around the world.

People like you, on the other hand, don't give two hoots about Buddhists and (especially) Yazidi... you are only using them as an 'opportunity' to get to your only aim in life: namely 'to attack Islam and muslim values'. That is all you do in all your posts anywhere, you can do that in your 'tabloid newspapers' but not on here.

You don't give a toss about any religion or religious groups, you just use them as a means to an end, just like all Atheists. it's just that 'Islam' is your target here.


Quote ...Slavery: Funny that you cite exactly the same article as the one I gave, apparently you didn't even bother to click it...


Lets have a look and see who 'did not even bother to click it':

you gave this link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_slavery_in_the_Muslim_world

Whereas I quoted from this link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_views_on_slavery

I know that they probably look the same to you, but anybody who bothers to pay attention would see that they are actually different links.

Quote ...the numbers of slaves taken by Muslims vs. Christians are throughout comparable...


Hardly! You can probably fool people (or yourself), but you cannot fool history (even from non-Muslim sources, as you like to insist upon). keep dreamin' airmano.


Quote ... Mohamed riding on a wild boar...


Message to Moderators:

May I humbly and politely remind you to uphold your own Guidelines to this forum please.

How much more abuse can we put up with from this type of people. This is an Islamic forum!... people come on here in order to learn about Islam and Islamic answers to various 'life and faith questions', but most of what they find is mis-information and abuse against Islam and Muslims (there's enough of that in the Daily Tabloids) from hateful people hell-bent on distorting the image of Islam.

Some of the people on here are Atheists (I have no problems with that... but) who do not want to learn about religions and religious views, their sole purpose in life is to do away with religions (especially Islam... to put it politely). You can see that in their writings and their posts. They spend all their time doing that on websites and news articles, I see it all the time.

They insult our religion, symbols, Companions, prophets, Allah...etc. And Islam teaches us not to insult any of theirs (not that they have any).

I have no qualms about interfaith debates and exchange of views, or even some argumentation including presentation of evidence... but this is far from it. Some people are only here to upset and provoke any reaction from Muslims. If I went and did the same on their 'websites', I would not last 5 minutes (I would have a lot of abuse hurled at me... and banned for life).. Islam teaches me to live within certain (strict) guidelines, but they have none...

MIAW




Edited by MIAW - 25 February 2018 at 2:00am
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airmano View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote airmano Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 February 2018 at 3:00pm
Quote Originally posted by airmano
...Where was or rather 'is' the swift action to protect Christians, Buddhists and Yazidi against fundamentalist Muslim aggression...

Miaw
......

I'm pleased to hear that you try to be a god man. But this was not my question. Could you please try to go back to the subject and reply to my question ?
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Links on Slavery: Glad you finally opened it

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Quote Airmano:
...the numbers of slaves taken by Muslims vs. Christians are throughout comparable...

Miaw:
Hardly! You can probably fool people (or yourself), but you cannot fool history (even from non-Muslim sources, as you like to insist upon). keep dreamin' airmano.


If the figures in this and this article are correct the numbers of slaves 'traded' by the west amounts to an estimate between 11 and 12 millions.

Sure, this number is nothing to be proud about, but the Arab slave trade alone (not counting the large additional number taken by the Ottomans and others) is estimated to be between 11.5 and 17 Millions. Search for the word "Legacy" in this link.

Could you please show your sources of information where you derive your opinion from ?

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"Mohamed and wild boars": I guess you still haven't understood. Even at the risk of repeating myself: Hardly anybody really cares about Mohamed and his teachings here (and some of those that do, use rather harsh terms to describe him). If there are journalists depicting Mohammed in a way you don't like this is none of your affair, as much your beliefs and praying is none of our business either. Mohamed may be "holy" at your place, but in most of the places in the world he isn't - as difficult as this may be for you to imagine.

To give you (my) estimates on how people react on cartoons involving Mahomed here in Europe. 80 percent simply don't care, 10 percent find it funny and 10 percent are disgusted. So what ?

But everybody here sees it as a meddling into (our) inner affairs when Muslims go to the street by the millions to protest against it (and some go and kill even the journalists in the name of the religion of peace).

I guess you would equally be appalled if the west went out for mass protest marches to make you stop your prayers.

It is pretty much as Mohamed would say: You have your culture, we have ours. A bit more tolerance and less excitement on either side would be helpful though.



Airmano

Edited by airmano - 21 February 2018 at 3:33pm
The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses (Albert Einstein 1954, in his "Gods Letter")
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tim the plumber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 February 2018 at 1:03am
Originally posted by MIAW MIAW wrote:

[I have no qualms about interfaith debates and exchange of views, or even some argumentation including presentation of evidence... but this is far from it. Some people are only here to upset and provoke any reaction from Muslims. If I went and did the same on their 'websites', I would not last 5 minutes (I would have a lot of abuse hurled at me... and banned for life).. Islam teaches me to live within certain (strict) guidelines, but they have none...

MIAW


Hey, MIAW, test that out. Go to an atheist forum, there are plenty out there, and as long as you don't threaten them with violence or just stream swearing insults, which they will be mildly OK with, you will not be banned. That is if you engage with them, don't lie, don't forget the point that was shown to be the case yesterday etc..

They will treat you as the duck shoot sport of the day.

Good luck.

If you do can you tell us which one you do it on so we can watch, if would be good entertainment.



Edited by Tim the plumber - 23 February 2018 at 1:04am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Caringheart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 February 2018 at 9:38pm
Originally posted by MIAW MIAW wrote:


Some of the people on here are Atheists (I have no problems with that... but) who do not want to learn about religions and religious views, their sole purpose in life is to do away with religions (especially Islam... to put it politely). You can see that in their writings and their posts. They spend all their time doing that on websites and news articles, I see it all the time.

MIAW

Greetings MIAW,
Since you have the 'perfect religion', isn't it your opportunity to convince these people of it?
asalaam alaykum,
Caringheart

p.s. - That's what Christians are expected to do... not to shun, but to take the Word of God to these people that they too may be saved.  Christians are to embrace and share with love.  Many have come to see the light this way.  You should read, or see the movie, The Case For Christ, about how Lee Strobel (and eventually his wife) came from atheism to belief.  asaaam alaykum, peace and blessings to you.
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MIAW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 February 2018 at 1:53am

Quote  airmano wrote:

...Hardly anybody really cares about Mohamed and his teachings here ...

  

Nobody is asking you to care about Prophet Muhammad PBUH and his teachings... on the contrary, Muslims have been asking you for years to just leave him alone... Leave him be in his grave. I think that too much hatred in our world today is behind all these islamophobic posts, cartoons, articles...etc.


Quote ...If there are journalists depicting Mohammed in a way you don't like this is none of your affair...
  

This is so hypocritical... if, for example, someone came up to you and said: "I am going to depict your wife [or someone else who you care a lot about, like your dead mother] in a way you don't like, without your permission or hers", and when you object it makes them want to do it even more (because that's how sad they are)... [and on top of that, they would say to you: this is none of your business (affair)]. Would you then just 'accept and turn the other cheek'? . Well... that's an example about a person who is dear to only you... imagine if someone did the same thing with a person who is extremely dear to Billions of  people, and respected by many more.


Quote ...as much (as) your beliefs and praying is none of our business ...

 

Now... this is funny...Are you sure about this?... in your 800 posts on here, you have proven to us that 'Muslim beliefs and praying' are very much YOUR business... your only business in life (However, sadly for you, in a negative and demeaning way). I can just imagine all the special 'files' and 'folders' that you have 'at hand', dedicated to attacking Islam and 'Muslim values'. Don't you have any other interests in life? (hmmm... I guess not).


Quote ...To give you (my) estimates on how people react on cartoons involving Mahomed here in Europe. 80 percent simply don't care, 10 percent find it funny and 10 percent are disgusted. So what ? ...

 

So let me get this right... You are telling us that, in order to 'entertain' the '10 percent' who find it funny... your friends at Charlie Hebdo and other tabloids were prepared to go as far as 'upsetting' Billions of  people from around the world!

Did Muslims ever depict anybody in a demeaning and insulting cartoon? No ... A true Muslim would not even depict anybody in a 'good' context, let alone in an insulting manner.

I guess 'je ne suis pas Charlie'.


Quote ... Muslims go to the street by the millions to protest against it (and some go and kill even the journalists in the name of the religion of peace)...

Those who went to the streets were pleading with Charlie Hebdo and the likes to stop this 'uncalled for' aggression on their Prophet and symbols... But they were also hoping to prevent any (Muslim) extremists from falling into the trap of reacting to these 'provocations' in their name.

As a result (Unfortunately), Atheist Charlie (driven by hatred... not satire) increased their aggression for that exact same reason, i.e. to provoke a reaction from those exact people, and then public opinion would blame 'all Muslims'. 

[Incidentally... asking provocative questions is something that YOU like to do all the time, just like here: in: http://www.islamicity.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=42178&title=22-this-scripture-no-doubt.]


Atheists believe that 'Freedom of Expression' is without 'limits'. That is totally wrong.

Furthermore, a pen (or pencil) can be more violent than a gun. Because the effect of a gun is limited in terms of both time and number of victims.


Quote ...A bit more tolerance...

Try repeating this in front of a 'mirror' a few hundred times... it's good therapy... and boy do you need it.


MIAW



Edited by MIAW - 26 February 2018 at 11:06am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tim the plumber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 February 2018 at 2:38am
Quote Nobody is asking you to care about Prophet Muhammad PBUH and his teachings...


Odd, I see a lot of Muslims who want the whole world to be Islamic.
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