What proof is there that Muhammad was a p |
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Tim the plumber
Senior Member Male Joined: 30 September 2014 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 944 |
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Invention is the answer to difficulties that need to be over come. The divisions that cause competition and conflict are what drives innovation in the West. That is the cause of the sucess of the West. Not being better at prayer. |
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MIAW
Senior Member Islam Joined: 17 January 2018 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 492 |
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airmano, Your post is too long (which means that mine will have to be long unfortunately)... some of it fair comment, and some not so fair... and I really did not want this to turn into a 'Current Affairs' debate (wrong forum)... However I shall just touch upon some of your (many) comments. Anyway, I don't recall asking you for any opinions on this occasion, but you are always welcome to comment with me.
Correct. We have needed a 'proper' central authority for centuries in my opinion.
This is so wrong and unfair (and so typical!). Any Muslim has to (and does) condemn and denounce any attacks on any innocent people of any faith. In fact so much so that military action followed in most cases, example: Egypt. Now how can you fail to compare this to the complete silence and time-wasting games that the whole (civilised) world is adopting with the Rohingya crisis in Myanmar, where villages are burnt daily (with people still in them), women raped in their hundreds daily, men and boys surrounded and executed on camera (in HD), with hundreds of thousands fleeing for their lives...etc (I could go into more details, but I don't think it's appropriate here). Reason for this massacre and genocide: because they are Muslims. BTW Myanmar is not the only place on Earth where this is happening. The atrocities that we are witnessing are only matched by what the Christian missionaries did when they first set foot on the other side of the Atlantic (there was a brilliant youtube video about this, but I can't find it any more... There's a surprise!).
I cannot believe that you have the cheek and guts to even mention the word 'slavery'! With its very limited means at the humble beginnings, Islam started paving the way for abolishing slavery. Christians (and white supremacists in general) enslaved the whole world in a big, horrible way. Islam started by giving slaves rights (when they had no rights elsewhere)... (starting at day zero with Muhammad... to use your own words). And this made Prophet Muhammad even more enemies from amongst the dignitaries of Makka. Read this
Incorrect again... Look at 'Terminology' Here.
I just gave you an example without looking at the video. However your comment made me go and look into this guy (whom I did not know a great deal about), and find out about his case. These are my conclusions: 1) This is a flagrant example of western 'hypocrisy'. Not: Innocent till proven guilty. Not even: Guilty till proven innocent. In this case: GUILTY. PERIOD. 2) this guy's mistake is that he was making too much noise of the wrong kind (i.e defending Islam), at a time when freedom of speech is only for the privileged chosen ones. 3) Very 'dodgy' case. It seems to me that they had to silence him and incarcerate him quickly and indefinitely, and even prevent his wife and kids from contacting him, after a couple of women (?) accused him of sexual assault (years ago... in a hotel room). Whilst Harvey Weinstein and his likes are filmed enjoying high class restaurant meals and parties in total freedom, despite the fact that his list of accusers is quasi endless. hmmm 4) so much for Libert�, �galit�, fraternit�...
Civilisations take turns in Rising and Falling. It's the nature of things since the beginning of human history. My turn yesterday, your turn today, and sure as Hell it will be someone else's turn tomorrow.
Allah gave us the same religion as everyone else before us... and some of us are trying to practice it to the best of our ability... in its pure, unchanged form (unlike those before us). Qur'an: [23:53] فَتَقَطَّعُوا أَمْرَهُمْ بَيْنَهُمْ زُبُرًا كُلُّ حِزْبٍ بِمَا لَدَيْهِمْ فَرِحُونَ But people have cut off their affair (of unity), between them, into sects: each party rejoices in that which is with itself. Hadith: The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: �Islam began as something strange and will revert to being strange as it began, so give glad tidings to the strangers.� MIAW P.S.: Airmano, please make your posts shorter, some of us have a life! Edited by MIAW - 15 February 2018 at 11:22am |
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Tim the plumber
Senior Member Male Joined: 30 September 2014 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 944 |
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I agree. But where are the Islamic nations queing up to take in and help those people? Where are the refugee camps in Saudi Arabia or Iran or Pakistan? The only help these poor people seem to be getting is from Western nations setting up such camps and doing the little they can via charities and other NGOs. I will praise the help that Islamic charities in the West are doing as well but the actual Islamic nations seem not to care. |
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airmano
Senior Member Joined: 31 March 2014 Status: Offline Points: 884 |
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No, it's not. That you don't hear about it in your country doesn't mean it doesn't exist. The (counter-)examples you give are also questionable -at least. A) Egypt: I think this is a very bad example but I promised to make it short. (Please ask for more if you want to know). B) No reaction on the Rohynga tragedy in the west ? I don't know in which part of the world you live but for sure not in Europe. There have been protest marches in many European countries and all the (serious) newspapers are full of it. I think I can judge it since I can read (and speak) English, German, French, Italian and Spanish and I read the news from these countries almost every day. If you wish I can send you a long list of links to the respective articles. Let's do the test: In exchange I would be happy if you could send me some links to renowned newspapers from your country with recent reports on the Christian tragedy (Don't worry about the translation). Ah and by the way: sieving through some articles on the subject I stumbled over this guy (probably a Pakistani). What do you think about this article he wrote on the subject of the Rohyngas ? I'd guess one can't accuse him of cultural bias. ----------------------------------------------------- Slavery: Please inform yourself before you come up with such statements. A good starting point is this, and when it comes to Muhammad I invite you to read about the destiny of the Banu Qurayza - from non-Muslim sources. Also interesting to know that the last countries to abolish slavery were Muslim countries - and only after massive pressure from the West. Ah, and there is even this high ranked Muslim cleric who considers "Slavery as part of Islam". Could it be that even Imams do sometimes not grasp "the clear message ?". -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
That's just the problem. It's not only the video. Checking sources is important! The article you cite in favour of your theory does not at all support your claims ! Or do you want me to think that people that 'hold the ultimate truth' have a rather loose relationship to it ? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
First my wording was explicitly "accused", please read again. Secondly, he is accused by Muslim women (only). Does this make it more credible to you ? Thirdly, when it comes to prejudgment: Why do you say "western" and not "your" ? ------------------------------------------------------------------------
I can only agree. But why can you (rightly) see it in the case of civilisations but not for the identical pattern where religions do also come and go ? (most often the two are even synchronized) I'd be very interested in your answer ! ------------------------------------------------------------------------
I know the Muslim doctrine. Does this include the Neanderthal man ? (This is a serious question !) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- To finish: There is absolutely no point in throwing Surahs onto me, it has pretty much the same effect on me as holy water has on you. A bit long again, I'll try to improve ...: Airmano Edited by airmano - 16 February 2018 at 2:43am |
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The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses (Albert Einstein 1954, in his "Gods Letter")
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jazzyj7
Starter. Male Joined: 07 February 2018 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3 |
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Muslims- so in Islam they believe Allah sent Jabril(Angel Gabriel) to Muhammad and that's where he got revelations on islam but the first time you hear about the angel Gabriel in the Bible is with the prophet Daniel. Daniel was before Jesus which means he's way before Muhammad so if the quran doesn't align with the book of Daniel then you can prove it's a imposter angel. The Bible say's satan disguises himself as a angel of light. In Daniel chapter 9 the angel comes to Daniel and gives him a prophecy, the messiah will be cut off, not for himself and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and sanctuary. Jesus was killed not for himself but for the world and then in 70AD that's when the romans came and destroyed the city and the sanctuary just like the bible says. In Daniel chapter7:13 He gets a vision of one like a son of man coming with the clouds of heaven, He was given authority, glory, and soverign power, all nations and people of every language worshipped him and his dominion is a everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will not be destroyed. This is talking about when Jesus returns at his 2nd comeing to rule on earth as king of kings and lord of lords that's when all the nations will "worship him." In the quran this is obviously a conflicting message because they don't believe any man should be worshipped so therefore the angel that Muhammad encountered can not be real angel Gabriel considering Daniel encounterd the angel before him. once again, the Bible says satan disguises himself as a angel of light. In Isaiah it gives you the 5 pointed plan of the devil. 1. I will ascend into heaven 2. I will exalt my throne above the stars of god. 3 I will sit in the mount of congregation in the utter most parts of the north. 4 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds. 5 I will be like the most high. satan wanted to accomplish two things with islam 1. mess up the identity of god. 2. remove the cross which is mans salvation. He has muslims praying 5 times a day to mock them because they are oblivious of his 5 pointed plan to be like the most high.
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asep garut
Senior Member Joined: 02 November 2017 Status: Offline Points: 366 |
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Tim the plumber, what you said is true, because Muslims are also commanded to strive for the improvements of his life according to His word, but the difference is that Muslims are forbidden to divide becoming several divisions, it is forbidden by Allah as in His word. Different opinions are allowed in Islam, but divisive is prohibited. I agree that we will not change if only by prayer, but it must be accompanied by efforts, as in His word. |
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Tim the plumber
Senior Member Male Joined: 30 September 2014 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 944 |
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Whilst that attitude, that all will be sorted once we are united, persists the Islamic world will not be able to overcome any problems at all. Only once the attitude changes to "I must solve this problem myself" will the cultural life in Islamic nations get sorted. |
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MIAW
Senior Member Islam Joined: 17 January 2018 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 492 |
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I just don't have time for long posts, so I shall try to be as brief as possible. Besides I don't like these (unfair) 'current affairs' debates, because in order to back up any claim, I only have the sources available out there, i.e. world media made, financed and run by biased, anti-islam, anti-religion, islamophobe, anti-god in general and racist individuals or organizations. So it's 'easy' for you (please... no offence meant against you here) to reach out and find writings and articles that will endorse your ideas and claims, but not for me. However, having said this, I do accept this situation, because history has taught me that 'Truth' always has opponents and enemies, and 'Falsehood' always has supporters, the latter ones being usually more in number. I only have to look at stories of Prophets (Peace Be Upon Them All) for examples of this.
Protest marches are good, but swift action is better. And please don't anyone mention to me the lack of action from 'Muslim countries' that are run by remote-controlled puppets trying to cling to power at all cost (hence all the uprisings) [of course without discrediting the efforts and action of some of them]. The Rohyinga genocide is a human tragedy, Full stop.
Cultural bias? Yes definitely. The guy is a proud 'Atheist' (BTW: is that how you would describe yourself?). From his various articles: He hates Islam, Muslims, Islamic culture, and the idea of 'God'. You really need to understand this: Having a Muslim name does not make one a Muslim. I can give you countless examples of 'enemies from within'. He even rejects the idea that this genocide was carried out for religious reasons.
Ok, I have informed myself. From non-Muslim sources. Here are examples of what I found Here: - Early Islamic dogma forbade enslavement of free members of Islamic society, including non-Muslims (dhimmis), and set out to improve conditions of human bondage. - Slaves, be they Muslim or those of any other religion, were equal to their fellow practitioners in religious issues. - Slaves played various social and economic roles, from domestic worker to high-ranking positions in the government like Emir - the Zanj Rebellion... was an exception rather than the norm, as the vast majority of labor in the medieval Islamic world consisted of free, paid labour. - The Quran provides for emancipation of a slave as a means of religious atonement for sins. etc... etc... You will find that this compares favorably with any other religion, system...etc. Islam came at time when this 'injustice' was practiced 'normally' all over the world. So it had to treat it carefully and delicately in order to 'kick start' its abolition. I am talking about 'Islam' here, not about the actions of individuals or some rulers. Enough said about 'slavery' don't you think?
Airmano: A word of advice: please change your 'fishing lake'... because you bring too many Red Herrings to this table.
Really?! First it was (Atheist) 'Shamil Shams', and now it's (nudity-condoning, liberated from Islam) (J'ai choisi d'�tre libre) Henda Ayari! (from the same pot). Is there no limit to your resourcefulness?
I hope that you don't think I was referring to you... I meant the judicial system and the media...etc. Apologies if it came across in a wrong way.
This is more like it... probably the only relevant point worth discussing here. I shall make time for this... soon.
Point taken, but that was not meant for you. MIAW P.S. That's me being brief!... Edited by MIAW - 18 February 2018 at 2:29am |
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