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Is Jesus God or God's chosen representative ?

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JerryMyers View Drop Down
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    Posted: 05 January 2018 at 11:00pm
There are 3 ways we can know who Jesus is :

1 � Who he said he is

2 � Who his disciples said he is, and

3 � Who other people said he is

The first priority and most reliable source, of course, would be �who Jesus himself said he is�. �Who his disciples said he is� and �who other people said he is� can only be taken as reliable sources if they are in agreement with �who Jesus said he is�.

Consider the conversation between Jesus and his disciples - �Jesus and his disciples went on to the villages around Caesarea Philippi. On the way he asked them, �Who do people say I am?� They replied, �Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, one of the prophets.� �But what about you?� he asked. �Who do you say I am?� Peter answered, �You are the Messiah.� Jesus warned them not to tell anyone about him.� � Mark 8:27-30

From the above, we knew that none of the people (including his own disciples) in Jesus� lifetime ever believed Jesus is God. They (the Jewish folks in his lifetime), however, believed Jesus is a reincarnation of a previous prophet. When Jesus asked his disciples who they believed he is, Peter correctly answered, �You are the Messiah� or in some Bible translations, �You are the Christ�.

But what does �Christ/Messiah� really mean ? �Christ� came from the Latin word �Christos� while �Messiah� came from the Hebrew word �Mashiyach� and both means �anointed�, thus, �Christ/Messiah� simply means �the anointed�. The Greek root of the word (christos) is �chrio�, which literally means to anoint or be blessed to which, within the context of the scriptures, we understand this to be �be blessed by God�. Thus, the title �Christ� or �Messiah� simply refer to someone who is blessed and selected (or chosen) by God to serve and represent Him. The basis of this understanding can be found in the OT where it describes God anointing those who would serve and represent Him. In other words, one who represents God would certainly refer back to Him and not to himself. This is confirmed by the phrase �Blessed is he who comes in the Name of the Lord� which is used in the OT to mean service to God was said to be done in the Name of God. As such, the title �Christ� would be appropriately translated to �Anointed by God� or �God�s representative� and 'Jesus Christ' would be appropriately translated to �Jesus, Anointed by God� or �Jesus, God�s representative�.

So, when Peter said to Jesus �You are the Messiah�, it became clear that Jesus� close disciples accepted Jesus as God�s anointed(Christ/Messiah) one, but the other people did not. The Jews were not willing to accept Jesus as God�s anointed one and a representative of God and so, they eventually plot to kill him by framing him for blasphemy, a crime which Jesus denied. By denying the blasphemy charge, Jesus is clearly saying he is NOT God.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote asep garut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 January 2018 at 11:13pm
Originally posted by JerryMyers JerryMyers wrote:

There are 3 ways we can know who Jesus is :

1 � Who he said he is

2 � Who his disciples said he is, and

3 � Who other people said he is

The first priority and most reliable source, of course, would be �who Jesus himself said he is�. �Who his disciples said he is� and �who other people said he is� can only be taken as reliable sources if they are in agreement with �who Jesus said he is�.

Consider the conversation between Jesus and his disciples - �Jesus and his disciples went on to the villages around Caesarea Philippi. On the way he asked them, �Who do people say I am?� They replied, �Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, one of the prophets.� �But what about you?� he asked. �Who do you say I am?� Peter answered, �You are the Messiah.� Jesus warned them not to tell anyone about him.� � Mark 8:27-30

From the above, we knew that none of the people (including his own disciples) in Jesus� lifetime ever believed Jesus is God. They (the Jewish folks in his lifetime), however, believed Jesus is a reincarnation of a previous prophet. When Jesus asked his disciples who they believed he is, Peter correctly answered, �You are the Messiah� or in some Bible translations, �You are the Christ�.

But what does �Christ/Messiah� really mean ? �Christ� came from the Latin word �Christos� while �Messiah� came from the Hebrew word �Mashiyach� and both means �anointed�, thus, �Christ/Messiah� simply means �the anointed�. The Greek root of the word (christos) is �chrio�, which literally means to anoint or be blessed to which, within the context of the scriptures, we understand this to be �be blessed by God�. Thus, the title �Christ� or �Messiah� simply refer to someone who is blessed and selected (or chosen) by God to serve and represent Him. The basis of this understanding can be found in the OT where it describes God anointing those who would serve and represent Him. In other words, one who represents God would certainly refer back to Him and not to himself. This is confirmed by the phrase �Blessed is he who comes in the Name of the Lord� which is used in the OT to mean service to God was said to be done in the Name of God. As such, the title �Christ� would be appropriately translated to �Anointed by God� or �God�s representative� and 'Jesus Christ' would be appropriately translated to �Jesus, Anointed by God� or �Jesus, God�s representative�.

So, when Peter said to Jesus �You are the Messiah�, it became clear that Jesus� close disciples accepted Jesus as God�s anointed(Christ/Messiah) one, but the other people did not. The Jews were not willing to accept Jesus as God�s anointed one and a representative of God and so, they eventually plot to kill him by framing him for blasphemy, a crime which Jesus denied. By denying the blasphemy charge, Jesus is clearly saying he is NOT God.

JerryMyers,

In the Islamic belief that besides Jesus is not God also he has not died until now, but he was raised to the heavens by Gabriel by the command of Allah, as in the words of Allah 4: 157 and 158.

Even the Prophet Muhammad has informed that Jesus will descend back into the world to rectify the monotheistic religion that God has given to all His Apostles.

Asep Garut.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 2Acts Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 January 2018 at 9:16pm
Originally posted by JerryMyers JerryMyers wrote:

There are 3 ways we can know who Jesus is :

1 � Who he said he is

2 � Who his disciples said he is, and

3 � Who other people said he is

The first priority and most reliable source, of course, would be �who Jesus himself said he is�. �Who his disciples said he is� and �who other people said he is� can only be taken as reliable sources if they are in agreement with �who Jesus said he is�.

Consider the conversation between Jesus and his disciples - �Jesus and his disciples went on to the villages around Caesarea Philippi. On the way he asked them, �Who do people say I am?� They replied, �Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, one of the prophets.� �But what about you?� he asked. �Who do you say I am?� Peter answered, �You are the Messiah.� Jesus warned them not to tell anyone about him.� � Mark 8:27-30

From the above, we knew that none of the people (including his own disciples) in Jesus� lifetime ever believed Jesus is God. They (the Jewish folks in his lifetime), however, believed Jesus is a reincarnation of a previous prophet. When Jesus asked his disciples who they believed he is, Peter correctly answered, �You are the Messiah� or in some Bible translations, �You are the Christ�.

But what does �Christ/Messiah� really mean ? �Christ� came from the Latin word �Christos� while �Messiah� came from the Hebrew word �Mashiyach� and both means �anointed�, thus, �Christ/Messiah� simply means �the anointed�. The Greek root of the word (christos) is �chrio�, which literally means to anoint or be blessed to which, within the context of the scriptures, we understand this to be �be blessed by God�. Thus, the title �Christ� or �Messiah� simply refer to someone who is blessed and selected (or chosen) by God to serve and represent Him. The basis of this understanding can be found in the OT where it describes God anointing those who would serve and represent Him. In other words, one who represents God would certainly refer back to Him and not to himself. This is confirmed by the phrase �Blessed is he who comes in the Name of the Lord� which is used in the OT to mean service to God was said to be done in the Name of God. As such, the title �Christ� would be appropriately translated to �Anointed by God� or �God�s representative� and 'Jesus Christ' would be appropriately translated to �Jesus, Anointed by God� or �Jesus, God�s representative�.

So, when Peter said to Jesus �You are the Messiah�, it became clear that Jesus� close disciples accepted Jesus as God�s anointed(Christ/Messiah) one, but the other people did not. The Jews were not willing to accept Jesus as God�s anointed one and a representative of God and so, they eventually plot to kill him by framing him for blasphemy, a crime which Jesus denied. By denying the blasphemy charge, Jesus is clearly saying he is NOT God.

You are wrong. Your theology is incomplete.

During His trial before the Jewish leaders, the High Priest demanded of Jesus, �I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God� (Matthew 26:63). ��Yes, it is as you say,� Jesus replied. �But I say to all of you: In the future you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven�� (Matthew 26:64).

The Jewish leaders responded by accusing Jesus of blasphemy (Matthew 26:65-66).
Why would His claiming to be the Son of God be considered blasphemy and be worthy of a death sentence? The Jewish leaders understood exactly what Jesus meant by the phrase �Son of God.� To be the Son of God is to be of the same nature as God. The Son of God is �of God.�
The claim to be of the same nature as God�to in fact be God�was blasphemy to the Jewish leaders; therefore, they demanded Jesus� death, in keeping with Leviticus 24:15.

Other verses make this clear -
Hebrews 1:3 expresses this very clearly, �The Son is the radiance of God�s glory and the exact representation of His being.�

For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him Col 1:19
     
But if I drive out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. Mat 12:28

For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form. Col 2:9.


Further more Jesus referred to himself as the Son of Man and quoted Daniel 7:13-14
Where The Son of Man Is Given Dominion � with the clouds of heaven�
given dominion
and glory and a kingdom,
that all peoples, nations, and languages
    should serve him;
his dominion is an everlasting dominion,
    which shall not pass away,
and his kingdom one
    that shall not be destroyed.

Obviously Jesus was not a mere man !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peace maker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 January 2018 at 10:25am
Originally posted by asep garut asep garut wrote:


[QUOTE=JerryMyers]There are 3 ways we can know who Jesus is :

1 � Who he said he is

2 � Who his disciples said he is, and

3 � Who other people said he is

The first priority and most reliable source, of course, would be �who Jesus himself said he is�. �Who his disciples said he is� and �who other people said he is� can only be taken as reliable sources if they are in agreement with �who Jesus said he is�.

Consider the conversation between Jesus and his disciples - �Jesus and his disciples went on to the villages around Caesarea Philippi. On the way he asked them, �Who do people say I am?� They replied, �Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, one of the prophets.� �But what about you?� he asked. �Who do you say I am?� Peter answered, �You are the Messiah.� Jesus warned them not to tell anyone about him.� � Mark 8:27-30

From the above, we knew that none of the people (including his own disciples) in Jesus� lifetime ever believed Jesus is God. They (the Jewish folks in his lifetime), however, believed Jesus is a reincarnation of a previous prophet. When Jesus asked his disciples who they believed he is, Peter correctly answered, �You are the Messiah� or in some Bible translations, �You are the Christ�.

But what does �Christ/Messiah� really mean ? �Christ� came from the Latin word �Christos� while �Messiah� came from the Hebrew word �Mashiyach� and both means �anointed�, thus, �Christ/Messiah� simply means �the anointed�. The Greek root of the word (christos) is �chrio�, which literally means to anoint or be blessed to which, within the context of the scriptures, we understand this to be �be blessed by God�. Thus, the title �Christ� or �Messiah� simply refer to someone who is blessed and selected (or chosen) by God to serve and represent Him. The basis of this understanding can be found in the OT where it describes God anointing those who would serve and represent Him. In other words, one who represents God would certainly refer back to Him and not to himself. This is confirmed by the phrase �Blessed is he who comes in the Name of the Lord� which is used in the OT to mean service to God was said to be done in the Name of God. As such, the title �Christ� would be appropriately translated to �Anointed by God� or �God�s representative� and 'Jesus Christ' would be appropriately translated to �Jesus, Anointed by God� or �Jesus, God�s representative�.

So, when Peter said to Jesus �You are the Messiah�, it became clear that Jesus� close disciples accepted Jesus as God�s anointed(Christ/Messiah) one, but the other people did not. The Jews were not willing to accept Jesus as God�s anointed one and a representative of God and so, they eventually plot to kill him by framing him for blasphemy, a crime which Jesus denied. By denying the blasphemy charge, Jesus is clearly saying he is NOT God.

<!--[if gte mso 9]><>
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<p ="Msonormal" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:
normal"><span style="color:black;mso-themecolor:text1">JerryMyers,</span>



<p ="Msonormal" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:
normal"><span style="color:black;mso-themecolor:text1">In the Islamic belief
that besides Jesus is not God also he has not died until now, but he was raised
to the heavens by Gabriel by the command of Allah, as in the words of Allah
4: 157 and 158.</span>



<p ="Msonormal" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:
normal"><span style="color:black;mso-themecolor:text1">Even the Prophet
Muhammad has informed that Jesus will descend back into the world to rectify
the monotheistic religion that God has given to all His Apostles.</span>



<p ="Msonormal" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:
normal"><span style="color:black;mso-themecolor:text1">Asep Garut.</span>



Unfortunately, many will be deceived into following the wrong Jesus. The apostle Paul wrote, �I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent�s cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough.

Jesus emphasized that it is not enough to simply profess the name of the Lord in order to enter into heaven. Besides taking the name of a follower of Jesus, we also need to actually follow Him. We need to do the Father�s will. Jesus said, �Not everyone who says to me, �Lord, Lord,� will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven� (Matthew 7:21, NIV). Jesus also declares, �For my Father�s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day� (John 6:40, NIV). Thus we need to look to Jesus, God�s Son. We need to spend time contemplating His life and the words He spoke and the things He did. Jesus assures us, �I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life� (John 5:24, NIV).


Edited by icforumadmin - 18 January 2018 at 8:47pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MIAW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 January 2018 at 12:47pm
Jesus PBUH is mentioned in the Qur'an 16 times. Here some examples relevant to this thread:

يَا أَهْلَ الْكِتَابِ لَا تَغْلُوا فِي دِينِكُمْ وَلَا تَقُولُوا عَلَى اللَّهِ إِلَّا الْحَقَّ إِنَّمَا الْمَسِيحُ عِيسَى ابْنُ مَرْيَمَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ وَكَلِمَتُهُ أَلْقَاهَا إِلَى مَرْيَمَ وَرُوحٌ مِنْهُ فَآمِنُوا بِاللَّهِ وَرُسُلِهِ وَلَا تَقُولُوا ثَلَاثَةٌ انْتَهُوا خَيْرًا لَكُمْ إِنَّمَا اللَّهُ إِلَهٌ وَاحِدٌ سُبْحَانَهُ أَنْ يَكُونَ لَهُ وَلَدٌ لَهُ مَا فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَمَا فِي الْأَرْضِ وَكَفَى بِاللَّهِ وَكِيلًا
[4:171] O People of the Book! commit no excesses in your religion: nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Al-Masih 'Isa the son of Maryam was (no more than) A Messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Maryam, and a Spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His Messengers. Say not "Trinity": desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is One God: glory be to Him: (far Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.


وَإِذْ قَالَ اللَّهُ يَا عِيسَى ابْنَ مَرْيَمَ أَأَنْتَ قُلْتَ لِلنَّاسِ اتَّخِذُونِي وَأُمِّيَ إِلَهَيْنِ مِنْ دُونِ اللَّهِ قَالَ سُبْحَانَكَ مَا يَكُونُ لِي أَنْ أَقُولَ مَا لَيْسَ لِي بِحَقٍّ إِنْ كُنْتُ قُلْتُهُ فَقَدْ عَلِمْتَهُ تَعْلَمُ مَا فِي نَفْسِي وَلَا أَعْلَمُ مَا فِي نَفْسِكَ إِنَّكَ أَنْتَ عَلَّامُ الْغُيُوبِ
[5:116] And behold! Allah will say: "O 'Isa the son of Maryam! didst thou say unto men, 'Worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah'?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, Thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, though I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden.

مَا قُلْتُ لَهُمْ إِلَّا مَا أَمَرْتَنِي بِهِ أَنِ اعْبُدُوا اللَّهَ رَبِّي وَرَبَّكُمْ وَكُنْتُ عَلَيْهِمْ شَهِيدًا مَا دُمْتُ فِيهِمْ فَلَمَّا تَوَفَّيْتَنِي كُنْتَ أَنْتَ الرَّقِيبَ عَلَيْهِمْ وَأَنْتَ عَلَى كُلِّ شَيْءٍ شَهِيدٌ
[5:117] "Never said I to them aught except what Thou didst command me to say, to wit, 'Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord'; and I was a witness over them whilst I dwelt amongst them; when thou didst take me up thou wast the Watcher over them, and Thou art a witness to all things.


وَإِذْ قَالَ عِيسَى ابْنُ مَرْيَمَ يَا بَنِي إِسْرَائِيلَ إِنِّي رَسُولُ اللَّهِ إِلَيْكُمْ مُصَدِّقًا لِمَا بَيْنَ يَدَيَّ مِنَ التَّوْرَاةِ وَمُبَشِّرًا بِرَسُولٍ يَأْتِي مِنْ بَعْدِي اسْمُهُ أَحْمَدُ فَلَمَّا جَاءَهُمْ بِالْبَيِّنَاتِ قَالُوا هَذَا سِحْرٌ مُبِينٌ
[61:6] And remember, 'Isa, the son of Maryam, said: "O Children of Israel! I am the Messenger of Allah (sent) to you, confirming the Law (which came) before me, and giving Glad Tidings of a Messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad." But when he came to them with Clear Signs they said, "This is evident sorcery!"




Edited by MIAW - 20 January 2018 at 12:48pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 2Acts Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 January 2018 at 1:44pm
Originally posted by MIAW MIAW wrote:

Jesus PBUH is mentioned in the Qur'an 16 times. Here some examples relevant to this thread:

يَا أَهْلَ الْكِتَابِ لَا تَغْلُوا فِي دِينِكُمْ وَلَا تَقُولُوا عَلَى اللَّهِ إِلَّا الْحَقَّ إِنَّمَا الْمَسِيحُ عِيسَى ابْنُ مَرْيَمَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ وَكَلِمَتُهُ أَلْقَاهَا إِلَى مَرْيَمَ وَرُوحٌ مِنْهُ فَآمِنُوا بِاللَّهِ وَرُسُلِهِ وَلَا تَقُولُوا ثَلَاثَةٌ انْتَهُوا خَيْرًا لَكُمْ إِنَّمَا اللَّهُ إِلَهٌ وَاحِدٌ سُبْحَانَهُ أَنْ يَكُونَ لَهُ وَلَدٌ لَهُ مَا فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَمَا فِي الْأَرْضِ وَكَفَى بِاللَّهِ وَكِيلًا
[4:171] O People of the Book! commit no excesses in your religion: nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Al-Masih 'Isa the son of Maryam was (no more than) A Messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Maryam, and a Spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His Messengers. Say not "Trinity": desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is One God: glory be to Him: (far Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.


وَإِذْ قَالَ اللَّهُ يَا عِيسَى ابْنَ مَرْيَمَ أَأَنْتَ قُلْتَ لِلنَّاسِ اتَّخِذُونِي وَأُمِّيَ إِلَهَيْنِ مِنْ دُونِ اللَّهِ قَالَ سُبْحَانَكَ مَا يَكُونُ لِي أَنْ أَقُولَ مَا لَيْسَ لِي بِحَقٍّ إِنْ كُنْتُ قُلْتُهُ فَقَدْ عَلِمْتَهُ تَعْلَمُ مَا فِي نَفْسِي وَلَا أَعْلَمُ مَا فِي نَفْسِكَ إِنَّكَ أَنْتَ عَلَّامُ الْغُيُوبِ
[5:116] And behold! Allah will say: "O 'Isa the son of Maryam! didst thou say unto men, 'Worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah'?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, Thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, though I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden.

مَا قُلْتُ لَهُمْ إِلَّا مَا أَمَرْتَنِي بِهِ أَنِ اعْبُدُوا اللَّهَ رَبِّي وَرَبَّكُمْ وَكُنْتُ عَلَيْهِمْ شَهِيدًا مَا دُمْتُ فِيهِمْ فَلَمَّا تَوَفَّيْتَنِي كُنْتَ أَنْتَ الرَّقِيبَ عَلَيْهِمْ وَأَنْتَ عَلَى كُلِّ شَيْءٍ شَهِيدٌ
[5:117] "Never said I to them aught except what Thou didst command me to say, to wit, 'Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord'; and I was a witness over them whilst I dwelt amongst them; when thou didst take me up thou wast the Watcher over them, and Thou art a witness to all things.


وَإِذْ قَالَ عِيسَى ابْنُ مَرْيَمَ يَا بَنِي إِسْرَائِيلَ إِنِّي رَسُولُ اللَّهِ إِلَيْكُمْ مُصَدِّقًا لِمَا بَيْنَ يَدَيَّ مِنَ التَّوْرَاةِ وَمُبَشِّرًا بِرَسُولٍ يَأْتِي مِنْ بَعْدِي اسْمُهُ أَحْمَدُ فَلَمَّا جَاءَهُمْ بِالْبَيِّنَاتِ قَالُوا هَذَا سِحْرٌ مُبِينٌ
[61:6] And remember, 'Isa, the son of Maryam, said: "O Children of Israel! I am the Messenger of Allah (sent) to you, confirming the Law (which came) before me, and giving Glad Tidings of a Messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad." But when he came to them with Clear Signs they said, "This is evident sorcery!"



Im not interested what the Quran says about Jesus. The Quran was written 1400 years after Jesus, so it is not accurate. Im more interested in what Jesus himself said as documented at the time in the Christian Gospels / Injeel.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Luke6_37 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 February 2018 at 6:12am
Originally posted by 2Acts 2Acts wrote:

Originally posted by JerryMyers JerryMyers wrote:

There are 3 ways we can know who Jesus is :

1 � Who he said he is

2 � Who his disciples said he is, and

3 � Who other people said he is

The first priority and most reliable source, of course, would be �who Jesus himself said he is�. �Who his disciples said he is� and �who other people said he is� can only be taken as reliable sources if they are in agreement with �who Jesus said he is�.

Consider the conversation between Jesus and his disciples - �Jesus and his disciples went on to the villages around Caesarea Philippi. On the way he asked them, �Who do people say I am?� They replied, �Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, one of the prophets.� �But what about you?� he asked. �Who do you say I am?� Peter answered, �You are the Messiah.� Jesus warned them not to tell anyone about him.� � Mark 8:27-30

From the above, we knew that none of the people (including his own disciples) in Jesus� lifetime ever believed Jesus is God. They (the Jewish folks in his lifetime), however, believed Jesus is a reincarnation of a previous prophet. When Jesus asked his disciples who they believed he is, Peter correctly answered, �You are the Messiah� or in some Bible translations, �You are the Christ�.

But what does �Christ/Messiah� really mean ? �Christ� came from the Latin word �Christos� while �Messiah� came from the Hebrew word �Mashiyach� and both means �anointed�, thus, �Christ/Messiah� simply means �the anointed�. The Greek root of the word (christos) is �chrio�, which literally means to anoint or be blessed to which, within the context of the scriptures, we understand this to be �be blessed by God�. Thus, the title �Christ� or �Messiah� simply refer to someone who is blessed and selected (or chosen) by God to serve and represent Him. The basis of this understanding can be found in the OT where it describes God anointing those who would serve and represent Him. In other words, one who represents God would certainly refer back to Him and not to himself. This is confirmed by the phrase �Blessed is he who comes in the Name of the Lord� which is used in the OT to mean service to God was said to be done in the Name of God. As such, the title �Christ� would be appropriately translated to �Anointed by God� or �God�s representative� and 'Jesus Christ' would be appropriately translated to �Jesus, Anointed by God� or �Jesus, God�s representative�.

So, when Peter said to Jesus �You are the Messiah�, it became clear that Jesus� close disciples accepted Jesus as God�s anointed(Christ/Messiah) one, but the other people did not. The Jews were not willing to accept Jesus as God�s anointed one and a representative of God and so, they eventually plot to kill him by framing him for blasphemy, a crime which Jesus denied. By denying the blasphemy charge, Jesus is clearly saying he is NOT God.

You are wrong. Your theology is incomplete.

During His trial before the Jewish leaders, the High Priest demanded of Jesus, �I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God� (Matthew 26:63). ��Yes, it is as you say,� Jesus replied. �But I say to all of you: In the future you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven�� (Matthew 26:64).

The Jewish leaders responded by accusing Jesus of blasphemy (Matthew 26:65-66).
Why would His claiming to be the Son of God be considered blasphemy and be worthy of a death sentence? The Jewish leaders understood exactly what Jesus meant by the phrase �Son of God.� To be the Son of God is to be of the same nature as God. The Son of God is �of God.�
The claim to be of the same nature as God�to in fact be God�was blasphemy to the Jewish leaders; therefore, they demanded Jesus� death, in keeping with Leviticus 24:15.

Other verses make this clear -
Hebrews 1:3 expresses this very clearly, �The Son is the radiance of God�s glory and the exact representation of His being.�

For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him Col 1:19
     
But if I drive out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. Mat 12:28

For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form. Col 2:9.


Further more Jesus referred to himself as the Son of Man and quoted Daniel 7:13-14
Where The Son of Man Is Given Dominion � with the clouds of heaven�
given dominion
and glory and a kingdom,
that all peoples, nations, and languages
    should serve him;
his dominion is an everlasting dominion,
    which shall not pass away,
and his kingdom one
    that shall not be destroyed.

Obviously Jesus was not a mere man !


Beautifully stated! In order to understand Jesus, one cannot simply cherry-pick a single verse from a Gospel and build an entire theology around that. Jesus is the Messiah, but he is also the Word.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JerryMyers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 April 2018 at 3:39am
Originally posted by 2Acts 2Acts wrote:

You are wrong. Your theology is incomplete.

During His trial before the Jewish leaders, the High Priest demanded of Jesus, “I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God” (Matthew 26:63). ‘Yes, it is as you say,’ Jesus replied. ‘But I say to all of you: In the future you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven’” (Matthew 26:64).



Actually, you are wrong. Your theology is incomplete.

You need to understand how the question was presented to Jesus and how he had understood it to be. In Matthew 26:63, Jesus was asked ‘are you the Christ/Messiah, the son of God?’ to which he responded “Yes” because he’s the Messiah/Christ and as for ‘Son/son of God’, Jesus has always understood ‘Son/son of God’ to mean servant of God, depending on how the question was put to him. It really does not matter whether you capitalized the ‘S’ or not because in Latin/Hebrew/Aramaic/Arabic, there’s no distinction between capital and non-capital letters. In other words, in Matthew 26:63, Jesus has understood the question to be “are you the Christ/Messiah, the servant of God?” to which, he said “Yes”.

In Luke 22:70 when Jesus was asked ‘are you then, the Son of God?’, Jesus responded with “You said that I am”. Why? Because in Luke 22:70, the Jews did not mention ‘Christ/Messiah’, and therefore, Jesus has understood the question to be “are you God, THE Son?” to which he responded “You said that I am”. In other words, he’s denying he’s God, the Son, and he was telling the Jews that only they are making that claim, NOT him.



Originally posted by 2Acts 2Acts wrote:

The Jewish leaders responded by accusing Jesus of blasphemy (Matthew 26:65-66). Why would His claiming to be the Son of God be considered blasphemy and be worthy of a death sentence?

Because anyone who claimed to be God or equal to God is an act of blasphemy. The Jews knew very well Jesus is not God or equal to God but because they are so determined to get rid of Jesus, they plot-ted to have him convicted of blasphemy – that’s why, it’s said he was falsely charged - a charge which Jesus denied (Luke 22:70).


Originally posted by 2Acts 2Acts wrote:

The Jewish leaders understood exactly what Jesus meant by the phrase ‘Son of God.’ To be the Son of God is to be of the same nature as God. The Son of God is ‘of God’. The claim to be of the same nature as God   ’to in fact be God’ was blasphemy to the Jewish leaders; therefore, they demanded Jesus’ death, in keeping with Leviticus 24:15.



Not really, the Jewish leaders fully understood Jesus was denying to be God, the Son (Luke 22:70), but because they wanted to get rid of him, they took Jesus’ denial as a confirmation of him claiming to be God, the Son, so that they can falsely charge him of blasphemy (Luke 22:71).


Originally posted by 2Acts 2Acts wrote:

Other verses make this clear -
Hebrews 1:3 expresses this very clearly, “The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of His being.”

For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him Col 1:19
      
But if I drive out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. Mat 12:28

For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form. Col 2:9.


Further more Jesus referred to himself as the Son of Man and quoted Daniel 7:13-14
Where The Son of Man Is Given Dominion ‘with the clouds of heaven’
given dominion and glory and a kingdom, that all peoples, nations, and languages should serve him; his dominion is an everlasting do-minion,
which shall not pass away, and his kingdom one that shall not be de-stroyed.

Obviously Jesus was not a mere man !



Those verses you quoted don’t make Jesus a God, in fact, they make Jesus a man chosen by God to be His representative on earth.
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