Don't take a Jew or a Christian for a fri |
Post Reply | Page 123 5> |
Author | |
MikePG7
Starter. Male Joined: 29 November 2017 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Posted: 29 November 2017 at 4:45pm |
The Quran says "Don't take a Jew or a Christian for a friend". Why should I defend Muslims against discrimination when Islam discriminates against followers of other religions?
Edited by MikePG7 - 29 November 2017 at 4:50pm |
|
NABA
Senior Member Male Joined: 13 December 2012 Location: India Status: Offline Points: 867 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
[Quran Chapter 60] 8. As for those who have not fought against you for your religion, nor expelled you from your homes, Allah does not prohibit you from dealing with them kindly and equitably. Allah loves the equitable. 9. But Allah prohibits you from befriending those who fought against you over your religion, and expelled you from your homes, and aided in your expulsion. Whoever takes them for friends�these are the wrongdoers. |
|
MikePG7
Starter. Male Joined: 29 November 2017 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Nice try, but no cigar. The Quran couldn't be clearer - https://islamqa.info/en/59879. It seems that it is ok for Muslims to convert people to Islam, but the opposite deserves death. Face the facts - under Islam, Jews, Christians and other non-believers are sub-human.
|
|
airmano
Senior Member Joined: 31 March 2014 Status: Offline Points: 884 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
@Naba
It doesn't help: 5:51 goes: Muhammad Sarwar: Believers, do not consider the Jews and Christians as your intimate friends for they are only friends with each other. Whoever does so will be considered as one of them. God does not guide the unjust people. In clear terms: You have a Christian friend -> you will be one of them -> you are thus unjust and a Kufr -> To hell you go. 60:8 is not about friends and therefore irrelevant 60:9 goes along the same lines as 5:51, so rather a confirmation of it. In clear terms: Naba's examples do by no means imply a change/softening of the meaning of 5:51. And even if it did: It would imply that the Quran contradicts itself - a thought most of the Muslims would dismiss as "impossible" I guess. No way out: Airmano Edited by airmano - 04 December 2017 at 2:58pm |
|
The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses (Albert Einstein 1954, in his "Gods Letter")
|
|
NABA
Senior Member Male Joined: 13 December 2012 Location: India Status: Offline Points: 867 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
O you who believe! Do not take Jews and Christians as your patrons. They are patrons of their own people. He among you who will turn to them for patronage is one of them. Verily Allah guides not a people unjust.] (Al-Ma'dah 5: 51)
It is obvious that Jews patronize the Jews and Christians patronize the Christians, so why not Muslims patronize Muslims and support their own people. This verse is not telling us to be against Jews or Christians, but it is telling us that we should take care of our own people and we must support each other. In his Tafsir, (Qur�an exegesis) Imam Ibn Kathir has mentioned that some scholars say that this verse (i.e. the one you referred to) was revealed after the Battle of Uhud when Muslims had a set back. At that time, a Muslim from Madinah said, "I am going to live with Jews so I shall be safe in case another attack comes on Madinah." And another person said, "I am going to live with Christians so I shall be safe in case another attack comes on Madinah." So Allah revealed this verse reminding the believers that they should not seek the protection from others, but should protect each other. (See Ibn Kathir, Al-Tafsir, vol. 2, p. 68) Muslims are allowed to have non-Muslims as friends as long as they keep their own faith and commitment to Islam pure and strong. You are correct in pointing out that a Muslim man is also allowed to marry a Jewish or Christian woman. It is obvious that one marries someone for love and friendship. If friendship between Muslims and Jews or Christians was forbidden, then why would Islam allow a Muslim man to marry a Jew or Christian woman? It is the duty of Muslims to patronize Muslims. They should not patronize any one who is against their faith or who fights their faith, even if they were their fathers and brothers. Allah says: [O you who believe! Take not for protectors (awliya') your fathers and your brothers if they love unbelief above faith. If any of you do so, they are indeed wrong-doers.] (Al-Tawbah 9: 23) In a similar way, the Qur'an also tells Muslims that they should never patronize the non-Muslims against other Muslims. However, if some Muslims do wrong to some non-Muslims, it is Muslims's duty to help the non-Muslims and save them from oppression. The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said that he himself will defend a Dhimmi living among Muslims to whom injustice is done by Muslims. But Islam also teaches that Muslims should not seek the patronage of non-Muslims against other Muslims. They should try to solve their problems among themselves. Allah Almighty says, [Let not the Believers take the unbelievers as their patrons over against the Believers�] (Aal-'Imran 3: 28) He Almighty also says: [O you who believe! Take not for patrons unbelievers rather than Believers. Do you wish to offer Allah an open proof against yourselves?] (An-Nisaa� 4:144) |
|
MikePG7
Starter. Male Joined: 29 November 2017 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Another very good attempt to justify clear discrimination. If I understand you correctly, you are saying that Islam says you can take a Jew or Christian or other "non-believer" as a friend or patron as long as they are not attacking Muslims because of their faith. Is that right? If so, then why doesn't the Quran simply say you can be friends with anyone as long as they don't attack Islam, and leave it at that? Why cast a slur on Jews and Christians by saying that you should not seek their help if you are being attacked? Why shouldn't you turn to a Jew or a Christian for help if you are being attacked because of your faith? A just man/woman will help anyone against injustice, regardless of their faith.
Edited by MikePG7 - 06 December 2017 at 2:12am |
|
airmano
Senior Member Joined: 31 March 2014 Status: Offline Points: 884 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
@Naba
Many words in your post, but I still do not see why Quran 5:51 should all of a sudden not be valid anymore. Can you explain ? So, is 5:55 finally a valid surah or has Allah changed his mind (again) ? Airmano Edited by airmano - 08 December 2017 at 9:30am |
|
The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses (Albert Einstein 1954, in his "Gods Letter")
|
|
Caringheart
Senior Member Joined: 02 March 2012 Status: Offline Points: 2991 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Greetings,
This is why I reject Muhammad as bringer of God's Word. He engenders negatives, not positives.... focused on the condemnation of others, rather than focusing on teaching good things. He brings strife, teaches prejudice, and brings divisions. He was all to human, promising things of a fleshly(worldly) nature, rather than a spiritual nature. Speaking to men in the words and thoughts of men, appealing to their fallen human natures, rather than to a higher spiritual nature. Telling them the things they wanted to hear... that it was ok to hate thy neighbor and to make war against him... that it was ok to oppress them because you consider yourself superior. It to me is not a message of a loving Creator to engender striving among His creation. asalaam alaikum, Caringheart |
|
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
|
Post Reply | Page 123 5> |
Tweet
|
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |