Don't take a Jew or a Christian for a fri

MIAW wrote: Caringheart wrote: ...Neighbors betray one another and are taught hate for one another... Greetings Caringheart, Please allow me to make something very clear before we move on: I personally, do not (and will not) hate anybody. I take all people individually, for what they are. I do not hate Christians, Jews, or any other faith on Earth. We are all children of Adam. We have been created and put here to 'help' each other through the trials, tribulations and demands of Life. I may dislike some 'Actions' of some people, but those could be Actions of a Muslim person as well as any other person. I happen to think that we have a lot more in common than what the Media tries to 'push down our throat' all the time. I think we have a lot to learn from each other, and there is nothing wrong with that. I, for one, appreciate tremendously the positive things I have learnt from associating and interacting with Christians, Jews, Sikhs, Hindous, Chinese...etc throughout the years. I believe in 'people', and every time that an act of killing, terrorism, rape, abuse...etc is committed, it tears my heart apart, no matter who the perpetrator is, no matter what faith they believe in, no matter the motives. People will always disagree about things, that's natural, but there is definitely no need for hatred. If we cannot possibly come to an agreement over a certain matter, then we leave that to The All-Supreme, All-Wise, on the Day Of Judgement. The Qur'an taught me this... [49:13] يَا أَيُّهَا النَّاسُ إِنَّا خَلَقْنَاكُمْ مِنْ ذَكَرٍ وَأُنْثَى وَجَعَلْنَاكُمْ شُعُوبًا وَقَبَائِلَ لِتَعَارَفُوا إِنَّ أَكْرَمَكُمْ عِنْدَ اللَّهِ أَتْقَاكُمْ إِنَّ اللَّهَ عَلِيمٌ خَبِيرٌ O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And Allah has full Knowledge and is well-acquainted (with all things). And this... [5:32] مِنْ أَجْلِ ذَلِكَ كَتَبْنَا عَلَى بَنِي إِسْرَائِيلَ أَنَّهُ مَنْ قَتَلَ نَفْسًا بِغَيْرِ نَفْسٍ أَوْ فَسَادٍ فِي الْأَرْضِ فَكَأَنَّمَا قَتَلَ النَّاسَ جَمِيعًا وَمَنْ أَحْيَاهَا فَكَأَنَّمَا أَحْيَا النَّاسَ جَمِيعًا وَلَقَدْ جَاءَتْهُمْ رُسُلُنَا بِالْبَيِّنَاتِ ثُمَّ إِنَّ كَثِيرًا مِنْهُمْ بَعْدَ ذَلِكَ فِي الْأَرْضِ لَمُسْرِفُونَ On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if anyone slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our Messengers with Clear Signs, Yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land. Now... back to our discussion... MIAW

Greetings MIAW,

I love what you write.  We could be kindred spirits.  I have written words so very similar to yours many times in the past... encouraging people to see people as individuals, not as groups or subsets. 
and like you, I have gained valuable lessons from my interactions with muslims, and I am always conscious to pass that knowledge on when I can, in speaking with others.  When people comment on my politeness, I tell them, 'I learned that from my muslim friends'.     (I have also had some very negative interactions with muslims, but as you say... individuals.  I work always towards peace and friendship. )
Sadly I have also seen children being taught hatred in too many parts of the world, and this not only saddens, but sickens me... to see the innocence of childhood stripped away.  Where small children are taught to wield weapons.  (literally)  This is an abuse of children and of childhood, and the adult which can not see this... i.e., the adult that treats children in this way.... is blinded by evil.  Children are so easily molded and adults should protect their innocence.  (sorry, got on a bit of a soapbox there )
I appreciate you.

asalaam alaykum,
Caringheart

Caringheart wrote: asep garut wrote: Dear Carringheart, Perhaps what you claim is because you see some Muslims behavior today, for example radicalism, Though the Prophet Muhammad never told his followers to behave like that. Narrated by Bukhari and Muslim: "Whoever believes in Allah and the Hereafter, do not harm his neighbor, and whoever believes in Allah and the Hereafter, honor his neighbors, and whoever believes in Allah and the Hereafter, speak good words or be quiet. " Narrated by Muslim: "It is not a believer if he likes to denounce, curse, talk vile and talk dirty." Such hadiths have similar meaning to the word of Allah in Qur'an 3:159 and 60:8 etc. Therefore, Allah commands to be an Islamic as a whole as in His word (not partially). Especially in connection with the hadiths, not all of the current hadiths must be followed (it must be selected first about the truth), because there are so many hadiths scattered on this earth made by those who are not responsible who deliberately want to undermine the teachings of Islam and dropped the good name of the Prophet Muhammad. Greetings asep garut, My impressions and conclusions come directly from reading the qur'an. I understand that there were good leaders who took only the best of what Muhammad taught.  The trouble with Muhammad's message is that it is convoluted, it is conflicting with its own self.  His message changed according to whatever was happening at the time. Here is an example right here: 60:9 Allah forbiddeth you only those who warred against you on account of religion and have driven you out from your homes and helped to drive you out, that ye make friends of them. Whosoever maketh friends of them - (All) such are wrong- doers. It essentially is saying that anyone that does not agree with your religion (anyone that has fought against, or refused to accept it), you can not be friends with them.  It denies people the free-will to choose their destiny... to choose whom they can trust and be friends with. Obviously anyone who declared war against you for any reason you would not consider a friend... that would go without saying, but Muhammad is making a point here about not taking friends of anyone who does not share your religion, and that is a clear denial of people as individuals with their own free will to be good and trustworthy people or not, of which there exists both in any religion, in any culture, in any part of the world. Peace and blessings to you, Caringheart

Caringheart,

It's true that 60: 9 states so, but here it must be known also about revealing of such verse, what's going on at that time.

You said �It essentially is saying that anyone that does not agree with your religion (anyone that has fought against, or refused to accept it), you can not be friends with them.  It denies people the free-will to choose their destiny... to choose whom they can trust and be friends with.�
Not like that, the teachings of Prophet Muhammad is rahmatan lil 'alamiin, of course the word of 'Rahmah (grace)' itself is a goodness. Prophet Muhammad and his people were only commanded to convey the religion of Allah with great wisdom, and after that all returned to the power of Allah who has guidance (Hidayah), as in the word of Allah 16: 125 and other verses.

Its phrases like that which make me question a religion. There's no reasoning to them whatsoever. Its quite false to claim that a Jew is or isn't a friend to someone because of their religion. It's the same with Muslims and Christians too. In those days when I was a Christian I never felt like I could be more of a friend to a Jew than to a Christian. There has never been a reason to. I can understand that whoever said that (Mohammed?) was speaking about the Jews and Christians who were present at the time it was said but times change. I doubt that most Christians and Jews have negative feelings about Muslims. However there are plenty of evil people in the world who hate for no valid reason other than someone being different than them.

Pete wrote: My translation reads ally.....

This is Mushin Khan translation. The word Auliya also appear in 9:23.

O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians as Auliya' (friends, protectors, helpers, etc.), they are but Auliya' to one another. And if any amongst you takes them as Auliya', then surely he is one of them. Verily, Allah guides not those people who are the Zalimun (polytheists and wrong-doers and unjust).
(Quran 5 51)

O you who believe! Take not for Auliya' (friends, protectors, helpers, etc.) your fathers and your brothers if they prefer disbelief to Belief. And whoever of you does so, then he is one of the Zalimun (wrong-doers, etc.) (Qur'an 9:23)