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MUHAMMAD (S) IN ISAIAH 29

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truthnowcome View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote truthnowcome Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 June 2017 at 9:00pm
Originally posted by 2Acts 2Acts wrote:

You are wrong !
Muhammad in Isaiah 29:12? No !


The entire vision will be to you like the words of a sealed book, which when they give it to the one who is literate, saying, �Please read this,� he will say, �I cannot, for it is sealed.� Then the book will be given to the one who is illiterate, saying, �Please read this.� And he will say, �I cannot read.�
Notice what happens here. Isaiah has been given a revelation. But God tells him that people will reject the revelation. The message is like a sealed book. If it�s given to someone who can read, he will say, �I can�t read it, because it�s sealed.� If it�s given to someone who can�t read, he will say, �I don�t know how to read.� Either way, people refuse to heed God�s warning.

 

Peace be unto you.

You didn't read comprehend what I have posted or would have make yourself look so foolish.

It was revealed to Isaiah what will happen to those two sets of people; and what will happen to them Isaiah described, it is record in that seal book which would be given to some who don't not to read and write saying read and he must say, I cannot read.

He described them:

�Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have remove their heart far from me, and their fear towards me is taught by the precept of men. (Isaiah 29:13).


 �For the LORD hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets, and your rulers, the seers. hath he covered.  (Isaiah 29:10 KJV)


�Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvelous work among this people, even a marvelous work and wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid.� (Isaiah 29:14)

How he would do a marvelous work? By sending that book and when it comes the the wisdom of the wise man will perish. Which wise man he was talking about? it all in verse 10, read:

For the LORD hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets, and your rulers, the seers. hath he covered.�  (Isaiah 29:10 KJV)

He God Almighty then informs them in the day when that seal book would have come the deaf will understand and the blind shall see, in other words who are blind they will recognize the truth and only the unjust will reject the truth.

 

And in that day shall the deaf hear the word of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity and out of darkness. The meek also shall increase their joy in the Lord, and they among men shall rejoice in the Holy one of Israel. (Isaiah 29:18-19)

It mentioned there: �And in that day�. Which day? That is the day when that seal book would have delivered to the illiterate prophet then shall the deaf hear the word of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity and out of darkness and the meek shall increase their joy in the Lord.

Notice in verse 19 it mentioned there: they among men shall rejoice in the Holy one of Israel�. How suddenly the O.T arrived with the �Holy One of Israel� where as in Verse 10 the God of the O.T.  has poured out a spirit of deep sleep and closed the eye of the Prophets of the Jews? It is a contradiction! For the LORD hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets, and your rulers, the seers. hath he covered� (Isaiah 29:10 KJV). The prophet-hood end there for the Jews. No illiterate Jewish prophet ever fulfill this prophesy until this day! That�s a concoction!
LET'S SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT ONCE AND FOR ALL...NO MORE LIES!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote truthnowcome Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 June 2017 at 9:08pm
Originally posted by 2Acts 2Acts wrote:

You are wrong !
Muhammad in Isaiah 29:12? No !

The entire vision will be to you like the words of a sealed book, which when they give it to the one who is literate, saying, �Please read this,� he will say, �I cannot, for it is sealed.� Then the book will be given to the one who is illiterate, saying, �Please read this.� And he will say, �I cannot read.�

Notice what happens here. Isaiah has been given a revelation. But God tells him that people will reject the revelation. The message is like a sealed book. If it�s given to someone who can read, he will say, �I can�t read it, because it�s sealed.� If it�s given to someone who can�t read, he will say, �I don�t know how to read.� Either way, people refuse to heed God�s warning.

Interestingly, in the very next verse (Isaiah 29:13), God says: �These people come near to me with their mouth and honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.� Jesus quotes this very passage in the Gospels to condemn people for their disobedience to God (see Matthew 15:7-9).

 


I highlite the point in your reply that I have already adress in the original post. Why "IF"?

From original post, follow the link: 

Originally posted by truthnowcome truthnowcome wrote:

And the vision of all is become unto you as a word of a book that is SEALED, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed. Isaiah.29: 11 (KJV)

12And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, read this I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned. (Isaiah 29:12 KJV)

https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/isa/29/1/t_conc_708012

http://classic.studylight.org/isb/bible.cgi?query=isa+29%3A12&section=0&it=kjv&oq=isa%252029%3A12&ot=bhs&nt=na&new=1&nb=isa&ng=29&ncc=29

   What is important to note here is the Devil recognize that Muhammad (s) fulfilled that prophecy so they (Devils) move in and retranslates it to change the meaning; the change �and� to �or if� to make it look as if it is a suggestion in the NIV translation, let�s check out it reads:

11 For you this whole vision is nothing but words sealed in a scroll. And if you give the scroll to someone who can read, and say, �Read this, please,� they will answer, �I can�t; it is sealed.� 12 Or if you give the scroll to someone who cannot read, and say, �Read this, please,� they will answer, �I don�t know how to read.�

You see that? But the NWT exposed their lies, it read as followers:

12 and the book must be given to someone that does not know writing, [somebody] saying: �Read this out loud, please,� and he has to say: �I do not know writing at all.� (Isaiah 29:12NWT)

  History recorded that Muhammad (s) used to go up mountain cave, called Ghar-Hera, in Arabia (Mt. Paran) to meditate. While he was there an angel, later identified as Gabriel, commanded him saying: �read� and he respond by saying: �I am not learned,� the angel repeat the act three times, then Muhammad (S) began to repeat the command of the angel which became the first five verse of surah 96, Al-Alaq, of the Qur�an. 

Read: In the name of thy Lord who created. Created man from a clot. Read: and thy Lord is the Most Bounteous, Who taught by the pen, Taught man which he knew not. (Q. 96:1-5)

 Allah conform it in the Quran:

Those who fallow the Messenger, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mention in their own (Scriptures), In the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel). (Q. 7:157).

   Torah: Isaiah29:12 and Gospel: John 16:13 ��for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear� [from angel Gabriel (S)].

And thou (O Muhammad) was not (able) to recite a book before this (book came), nor art thou (able) to transcribe it with thy right hand: in that case indeed, would the talkers of vanity have doubted. (Q.29:48)

Nor does he say (aught) of (his own) desire. It is no less than inspiration sent down to him. He was taught by one mighty in power. (Q. 53:3-5)


Br. zainool


Br. zainool
LET'S SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT ONCE AND FOR ALL...NO MORE LIES!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 2Acts Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 June 2017 at 2:19am
Your argument is very poor and you have not responded to my reply because you cannot. There is nothing here about Mohamad. You just twist what ever you can find because you are desperate to find Mohamad in Isaiah but he is not there.
Your argument is poor. Its only based on an �if� when there is little reason to doubt the textual or contextual reliability of Isaiah. The Dead Sea scrolls found in 1947 proves the text of Isaiah to be reliable.
Such things only work when a Muslim takes the passage out of its context.   Even then, it still really does not work, but if one reads Isaiah 29, the chances that a reasonable person would say this is a prophecy of Mohammed is pretty much zero.   Let us consider the passage in its context.
In the context, God is speaking to Isaiah in about 730 BC. "For you this whole vision is nothing but words sealed in a scroll. And if you give this scroll to someone who can read and say to him, "Read this, please," he will answer, "I can�t; it is sealed." Or if you give the scroll to someone who cannot read, and say "Read this please," he will answer "I do not know how to read."
Now, let us be honest. Do you see any indication that God is speaking to Isaiah about Mohammed? The scroll in question is a judgment on Israel. There is absolutely zero indication it has anything to do with Mohammed or the Arabs. The point of the passage is that when God gives his teaching to Israel through Isaiah the people will not want to listen to it.
The only thing which even extremely remotely can be misapplied to Mohammed is the fact that a person who does not read is mentioned. The problem with this is that almost no one in the ancient world read. The idea that this is a reference to a specific person who lived 1300 years later is truly outrageous unless someone can show the context refers to something about Muhammed. This content is comletely lacking.   
There is no indication whatsoever that Gabriel has anything to do with the Isaiah prophecy. His name is certainly not mentioned.   Only in the imagination of a Muslim, intent on finding Mohammed in the Old Testment, can Gabriel be found here. You say that this passage is "close to the story of Mohammed." I disagree. In fact, I see nothing at all in this passage which is similar to Mohammed, other than the fact that it mentions an illiterate person, which would describe the vast majority of all people who ever lived before recent times.
The Hebrew words in Isaiah translated as "don�t know how to read" or perhaps "not learned" are yada seper. Yada means recognize or understand and seper means "letter, deed, certificate." I suppose not learned is a possible translation of this Hebrew phrase, but not able to read is closer. The claim that Isaiah 29:12 is just like something Mohammed supposedly said to Gabriel depends on a particular translation of the Hebrew which is not a very likely translation.
In conclusion, the only way anyone could find Mohammed in Isaiah 29:12 is if they are scanning the Old Testament to find passages, no matter how far out of context, that they can say are about Mohammed. I believe we could do this with any figure from ancient history if we want to play games with the Bible.


Edited by 2Acts - 19 June 2017 at 2:21am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peace maker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 July 2017 at 3:05pm
Br Zanool.

What do you want to proclaim here?

v ISAIAH 29

It begins:

1Woe to Ariel, to Ariel, the city where David dwelt! add ye year to year; let them kill sacrifices.

God Almighty is talking about the city where David (S) dwelt that is in Jerusalem in future tense (add ye years to years), Jerusalem will be unto God Almighty as Ariel and He described what will happen to Ariel:

You said it yourself Ariel is Jerusalem.

First, Muslims appeal to Isaiah 29:12��Then the book is delivered to one who is illiterate, saying, �Read this, please�; and he says, �I am not literate.�� Muslims insist that the book referred to in this verse is the Quran, that the one to whom the book was delivered is Muhammad, and that the one who ordered Muhammad to read the book is Gabriel. They claim that Muhammad fits the description of this individual, since Muhammad was illiterate when the angel Gabriel revealed the words of Allah to him.

To understand the context of the verse, one must remember that Isaiah, who lived in the 8th century B.C., is known as the �Messianic prophet� because he prophesied so many details about Jesus�not Muhammad. Isaiah 29 is in a context in which God pronounced woes on Judah for her sins at that time, i.e., 702 B.C. The context indicates that within a year, the great Assyrian king Sennacherib would lay siege to Jerusalem in 701 B.C. (vs. 3). Jerusalem (called �Ariel�) would be attacked by her enemies and punished for her crimes against God, and then those enemies would, themselves, also receive their just desserts (vss. 4-8). God�s people were in the throes of deliberate spiritual blindness, and Judah�s false prophets/seers were not helping the situation (vss. 9-10). Notice that Isaiah then described the unwillingness of the people of his day to heed the truth by comparing them to a literate person who is told to read something, but refuses, excusing himself by saying the document is sealed (vs. 11). It then is delivered to an illiterate person, but he excuses himself by saying he cannot read (vs. 12). The point is that the people of Isaiah�s day refused to pay attention to God�s Word spoken through His prophets. They did not want it! Verses 13-16 explain that because of their closed minds, they would all suffer for their rejection of His Word when the Assyrians arrived to besiege the city. But, as usual, God revealed a better day when people would listen (vss. 17ff.). Having examined the context, it is transparently evident that these verses have absolutely nothing to do with Muhammad!

Isaiah is not even mentioned in the Quran.

Be sure to appoint over you the king the Lord your God chooses. He must be from among your own brothers. Do not place a foreigner over you, one who is not a brother Israelite. (Deuteronomy 17:15) if you follow Duet 18 in case.

    The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his servant Jesus. You handed him over to be killed,...this is how God fulfilled what he had foretold through all the prophets, saying that his Christ would suffer. Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out,...and that he may send the Christ, who has been appointed for you-even Jesus. He must remain in heaven until the time comes for God to restore everything, as he promised long ago through his holy prophets. For Moses said, "The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own people; you must listen to everything he tells you"...When God raised up his servant, he sent him first to you...

    John 6:14 confirms that fact: After the people saw the miraculous sign that Jesus did, they began to say, "Surely this is the Prophet who is to come into the world."
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