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7 Earths in the Qur'an, and recently discovered

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airmano View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote airmano Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 June 2017 at 5:12am
@Al Ghuraba

The way you write I'm sure you'd shout at me if I sat opposite to you. How was this again: "Islam is peace" ?
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Quote It's time you start to learn how to read....
....You just mentioned 3 people with Arabic names.
Oh dear: Any idea who these three are ? Why on earth are guys like you so unable to inform yourself ?
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Quote "In Paradise, you'll find things not heard by any of you, not seen by any of you, and not imaginable by any of you."

Then stop imagining silly ideas like 72 virgins !
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Quote I studied sciences like biology, chemistry, physics, mechanics, electronics, pneumatics, hydraulics, and now I'm studying computer science. I've seen the whole 9-yards of what people would classify as "science". Don't think you're talking to someone with no background...
May be, but you definitely didn't understand the basic concept in science, i.e. that you have to prove a claim with facts and falsifiability.
Divine clay is neither fact nor falsifiable, it is nonsense.
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Quote And the Seven Heavens are basically Universes. We live in the Lowest/First Heaven, which is called Samawatil-Dunya (Bottom Heaven/Lowest Heaven/First Heaven). This world is referred to as "Dunya". There are 7 Universes. That's what "Heaven" means. Paradise is something different. "Heavens" in Arabic is "Samawaat". "Paradise" in Arabic is "Jannah".

.... and more mumble jumble.

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To the point:
Give me one unambiguous example where the Quran has really something to say. Something "an illiterate man could not have known 1400 years ago" and which in its verifiability/falsifiability goes beyond "Peter Pan" or "Alice in Wonderland".

Only one !

I will give you an example on what I expect (at least!):

The rather uneducated 'messenger of god':
Srinivasa Ramanujan (bpuH) credited his acumen to his family goddess, Mahalakshmi of Namakkal. He looked to her for inspiration in his work and said he dreamed of blood drops that symbolised her male consort, Narasimha. Afterward he would receive visions of scrolls of complex mathematical content unfolding before his eyes. In the Wiki entry you can find some of the "revelations" he received from God. Given your strong educational background you're sure able to see the divine brilliance of these revelations.

The findings he made are clearly of the kind that "an uneducated young man could never have had without divine guidance". They were new and are (dis-)provable. The statements in the Quran I have seen so far are light-years below in their quality.
But I am willing to get proven otherwise. Bold claims (like the divine origin of Quran) need strong proof. Got any ?
To be clear, silly examples, like "Mountains as pegs, pointless remarks on embryology, the "sun as a lamp" and "Iron that has been sent down" aren't even worth the paper they have been written on.

Will we all become Hindus now or do you have anything better to offer ?


Airmano

Edited by airmano - 08 June 2017 at 1:54pm
The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses (Albert Einstein 1954, in his "Gods Letter")
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AlkitabAdvocate View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AlkitabAdvocate Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 October 2019 at 6:43pm

65:12  اللَّهُ الَّذِي خَلَقَ سَبْعَ سَمَاوَاتٍ وَمِنَ الْ�£َرْضِ مِثْلَهُنَّ يَتَنَزَّلُ الْ�£َمْرُ بَيْنَهُنَّ لِتَعْلَمُوا �£َنَّ اللَّهَ عَلَىٰ كُلِّ شَيْءٍ قَدِيرٌ وَ�£َنَّ اللَّهَ قَدْ �£َحَاطَ بِكُلِّ شَيْءٍ عِلْمًا

Allah is He, who created seven skies and of the earth also the like of it. His orders descends between them so that ye may know that Allah has power over all things, and that Allah encompasses, all things in (His) Knowledge

 

There is a similarity mentioned between the earth and the skies. The similarity is in their structure i.e as skies are built i.e one above another, similarly earth is made of layers one above another. The details of the layers of the Earth are given below copied from Wikipedia:

Structure of the Earth is divided into layers. These layers are both physically and chemically different. The Earth has an outer solid crust, a highly viscous mantle, a liquid outer core, and a solid inner core. (Following is the description of layers and sub layers of Earth):

  1. The crust is the outermost layer of the Earth. It is made of solid rocks. It is mostly made of the lighter elements, silicon, oxygen, aluminium. Because of this, it is known as sial (silicon = Si; aluminium = Al) or felsic.
  2. Lithosphere is the first of the four sub layers which together constitute the Mantle. Mantle is the layer of the Earth right below the crust. It is made mostly of oxygen, silicon and the heavier element magnesium. The uppermost part of the mantle is solid, and forms the base of the crust. It is made of the heavy rock peridotite. The continental and oceanic plates include both the crust proper and this uppermost solid layer of the mantle. Together this mass makes up the lithosphere. The lithosphere plates float on the semi-liquid aesthenosphere below.
  3. Upper aesthenosphere: magma
  4. Lower aesthenosphere
  5. Lower mantle
  6. Outer core. Earth core is solid iron and nickel, and is about 5000–6000oC. is a liquid layer below the mantle.
  7. Inner core, is the very center of the Earth. It is very hot and, due to the high pressure, it is solid.[1]

 

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asep garutea View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote asep garutea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 October 2019 at 7:48pm
Originally posted by AlkitabAdvocate AlkitabAdvocate wrote:

65:12  اللَّهُ الَّذِي خَلَقَ سَبْعَ سَمَاوَاتٍ وَمِنَ الْ�£َرْضِ مِثْلَهُنَّ يَتَنَزَّلُ الْ�£َمْرُ بَيْنَهُنَّ لِتَعْلَمُوا �£َنَّ اللَّهَ عَلَىٰ كُلِّ شَيْءٍ قَدِيرٌ وَ�£َنَّ اللَّهَ قَدْ �£َحَاطَ بِكُلِّ شَيْءٍ عِلْمًا

Allah is He, who created seven skies and of the earth also the like of it. His orders descends between them so that ye may know that Allah has power over all things, and that Allah encompasses, all things in (His) Knowledge

 

There is a similarity mentioned between the earth and the skies. The similarity is in their structure i.e as skies are built i.e one above another, similarly earth is made of layers one above another. The details of the layers of the Earth are given below copied from Wikipedia:

Structure of the Earth is divided into layers. These layers are both physically and chemically different. The Earth has an outer solid crust, a highly viscous mantle, a liquid outer core, and a solid inner core. (Following is the description of layers and sub layers of Earth):

  1. The crust is the outermost layer of the Earth. It is made of solid rocks. It is mostly made of the lighter elements, silicon, oxygen, aluminium. Because of this, it is known as sial (silicon = Si; aluminium = Al) or felsic.
  2. Lithosphere is the first of the four sub layers which together constitute the Mantle. Mantle is the layer of the Earth right below the crust. It is made mostly of oxygen, silicon and the heavier element magnesium. The uppermost part of the mantle is solid, and forms the base of the crust. It is made of the heavy rock peridotite. The continental and oceanic plates include both the crust proper and this uppermost solid layer of the mantle. Together this mass makes up the lithosphere. The lithosphere plates float on the semi-liquid aesthenosphere below.
  3. Upper aesthenosphere: magma
  4. Lower aesthenosphere
  5. Lower mantle
  6. Outer core. Earth core is solid iron and nickel, and is about 5000–6000oC. is a liquid layer below the mantle.
  7. Inner core, is the very center of the Earth. It is very hot and, due to the high pressure, it is solid.[1]

 

AlkitabAdvocate,
It is a good explanation from you.
And it shows that only the Quran can provide intuition for humanity who want to discover some of the secrets of this universe.

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Tim the plumber View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tim the plumber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 October 2019 at 3:14pm
Originally posted by asep garutea asep garutea wrote:

Originally posted by AlkitabAdvocate AlkitabAdvocate wrote:

65:12  اللَّهُ الَّذِي خَلَقَ سَبْعَ سَمَاوَاتٍ وَمِنَ الْ�£َرْضِ مِثْلَهُنَّ يَتَنَزَّلُ الْ�£َمْرُ بَيْنَهُنَّ لِتَعْلَمُوا �£َنَّ اللَّهَ عَلَىٰ كُلِّ شَيْءٍ قَدِيرٌ وَ�£َنَّ اللَّهَ قَدْ �£َحَاطَ بِكُلِّ شَيْءٍ عِلْمًا

Allah is He, who created seven skies and of the earth also the like of it. His orders descends between them so that ye may know that Allah has power over all things, and that Allah encompasses, all things in (His) Knowledge

 

There is a similarity mentioned between the earth and the skies. The similarity is in their structure i.e as skies are built i.e one above another, similarly earth is made of layers one above another. The details of the layers of the Earth are given below copied from Wikipedia:

Structure of the Earth is divided into layers. These layers are both physically and chemically different. The Earth has an outer solid crust, a highly viscous mantle, a liquid outer core, and a solid inner core. (Following is the description of layers and sub layers of Earth):

  1. The crust is the outermost layer of the Earth. It is made of solid rocks. It is mostly made of the lighter elements, silicon, oxygen, aluminium. Because of this, it is known as sial (silicon = Si; aluminium = Al) or felsic.
  2. Lithosphere is the first of the four sub layers which together constitute the Mantle. Mantle is the layer of the Earth right below the crust. It is made mostly of oxygen, silicon and the heavier element magnesium. The uppermost part of the mantle is solid, and forms the base of the crust. It is made of the heavy rock peridotite. The continental and oceanic plates include both the crust proper and this uppermost solid layer of the mantle. Together this mass makes up the lithosphere. The lithosphere plates float on the semi-liquid aesthenosphere below.
  3. Upper aesthenosphere: magma
  4. Lower aesthenosphere
  5. Lower mantle
  6. Outer core. Earth core is solid iron and nickel, and is about 5000–6000oC. is a liquid layer below the mantle.
  7. Inner core, is the very center of the Earth. It is very hot and, due to the high pressure, it is solid.[1]

 

AlkitabAdvocate,
It is a good explanation from you.
And it shows that only the Quran can provide intuition for humanity who want to discover some of the secrets of this universe.



Not really. The thing is that many of the stories in religious books are wrong. That some might have some bits close to right, (This is not one of them. 7 layers of earth beneath us are not 7 heavens above us.) does not mean that you get to understand the natural world any better.

That the process of critically and skeptically examining nature has resulted in demonstrible results that explain the world we see around us in ways that could be proven wrong but try as we might we can't means we can have a high level of confidence in their results being right or very close to it.

Understanding the world strts from the position of "I don't know." if you start with knowing you will never find anything out.
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asep garutea View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote asep garutea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 October 2019 at 5:05am
I agree that all human inventions do not mean that they have understood the world with certainty, because human science is very little when compared with God's knowledge.
But at least humans can find something new with their knowledge, and it turns out that among their discoveries have the same meaning with the word of God in the Qur'an. Example:
Some statements from world scientists related to the Big Bang Theory are similar in meaning to what is contained in the Qur'an, even though it is only in the form of information (not followed by details). God only gives information and it is human beings who find and prove the truth through their knowledge.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tim the plumber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 October 2019 at 8:07am
Originally posted by asep garutea asep garutea wrote:

I agree that all human inventions do not mean that they have understood the world with certainty, because human science is very little when compared with God's knowledge.
But at least humans can find something new with their knowledge, and it turns out that among their discoveries have the same meaning with the word of God in the Qur'an. Example:
Some statements from world scientists related to the Big Bang Theory are similar in meaning to what is contained in the Qur'an, even though it is only in the form of information (not followed by details). God only gives information and it is human beings who find and prove the truth through their knowledge.


Can you cite some of these which would be capable of being dis-provable? That is that potentially, should science uncover new evidence and change its' mind, that they would be shown, potentially to be wrong.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote asep garutea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 October 2019 at 6:15pm
In the 4th century BC, two influential Greek philosophers, Plato and his student Aristotle, wrote works based on the geocentric model. According to Plato, the Earth was a sphere, stationary at the center of the universe.
Then their theory was refuted by the heliocentric system (centered on the Sun) from Nicolaus Copernicus.
Then refuted by the emergence of the theory of law of Universal Gravitation from Sir Isaac Newton.

The process of perfecting each other's theories is as proof that humans to get to the perfection of their knowledge must go through trial and error.
Humans are creatures that were given intellect intelligence by God so that they can explore the mysteries of the universe.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tim the plumber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 October 2019 at 2:26am
Originally posted by asep garutea asep garutea wrote:

In the 4th century BC, two influential Greek philosophers, Plato and his student Aristotle, wrote works based on the geocentric model. According to Plato, the Earth was a sphere, stationary at the center of the universe.
Then their theory was refuted by the heliocentric system (centered on the Sun) from Nicolaus Copernicus.
Then refuted by the emergence of the theory of law of Universal Gravitation from Sir Isaac Newton.

The process of perfecting each other's theories is as proof that humans to get to the perfection of their knowledge must go through trial and error.
Humans are creatures that were given intellect intelligence by God so that they can explore the mysteries of the universe.


This process has been the result of looking at the real world.

Starting out with knowing you are right means you don't get anywhere.
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