A Non Idolatrous Association

That's interesting. Quran also enables us direct communication with God.

2:186

And when My servants ask you, [O Muhammad], concerning Me - indeed I am near. I respond to the invocation of the supplicant when he calls upon Me.

Names of Allah such as Al Aleem All Knower, Al Baseer All Seeer As Sami All Hearer express Omnipresence.


There is no medium even of Prophet Muhammad (sallAllahu alaihi wassallam) neither there exists a hierarchy of priests that we are obliged to go to.

However to know God's Will we need a scripture with clear meaning at the least. I'm curious how would you know what is the message of God through Jesus son of Mary (alaihi salam) if the translation of Gospel isn't clear or you do not accept the current translation of Book of John:1.

Btw Jesus son of Mary (alaihi salaam) does claim in the Gospel that he was a Prophet of God.

David,

My discussion was with the one who made the original post. The claims made in the original post are in clear contradiction to the scripture (Bible) in reference. The concept created by Christians in their mind about John:1 clearly contradicts everything else spelled out in the Bible about the One True Lord God Al Mighty. Since you decided to intervene to explain them I continued my discussion with you.

What is love and how does our love relate to God and His love to us is not what I had intended to discuss. But since you brought up this off topic subject I would like to mention Islam's position which it seems to me that you are unaware of.

If you talk about love then my friend 1st of all we should love the Truth and anything that clearly contradicts the truth we should have the courage to speak up against it as that is an expression of our Love for God.

(4:135) You who believe, uphold justice and bear witness to God, even if it is against yourselves, your parents, or your close relatives.

Assigning divinity and children to your Beloved even though there is no clear authority provided by your Beloved for such claims is rejecting His Love and Kindness.

DavidC wrote: We all know childbirth is painful, but ask any mother and she will tell you a male can never appreciate the experience.

Yes sir, I know child birth for women is painful and I do agree to what you say. But sadly what about that child that a mother bears, delivers with pain, raises, sacrifices her entire life for all his needs just to see his happiness....and one day when he becomes fit to become independent, walks away without even looking back?

(36:77) Can man not see that We created him from a drop of fluid? Yet��lo and behold!��he disputes openly, producing arguments against Us

(18:4-5) ....people who assert, �God has offspring.� They have no knowledge about this, nor did their forefathers��it is a monstrous assertion that comes out of their mouths: what they say is nothing but lies.

DavidC wrote: A person knows a parent loves their child. But, until they become a parent, they do not realize how awesome a difference that love makes.

Agreed. The same child who walked away from his mother without even turning around once he gained his independence does realize one day, does experience the same situation when his own children abandon him.

After realization of abandonment from his own children that ungrateful child was to return to his old mother to serve  her as she had deserved his kindness in return in the first place she may accept him. And why would she? Due to the Merciful nature God instilled in her she would still accept him with open arms...

(39:53-54) My servants who have harmed yourselves by your own excess, do not despair of God�s mercy. God forgives all sins: He is truly the Most Forgiving, the Most Merciful. Turn to your Lord. Submit to Him before the punishment overtakes you and you can no longer be helped.

(2:222)  God loves those who turn to Him (in repentance)

DavidC wrote: Everyone knows the death of one's parents is sad. But until the parents are actually dead one does not know what it is to be truly alone in the world.

Yes sir, I agree. Keeping the same story in mind ...the scenario could also be different if he returns...he might not find her....may be she passed away..

(4:18) It is not true repentance when people continue to do evil until death confronts them and then say, �Now I repent,�


I would like to thank you for giving the example of a child bearing mother.

Prophet said �On the day that He created the heavens and the earth, God created a hundred rahmas (loving compassion), each of which is as great as the space which lies between heaven and earth. And He sent one rahma down to earth, by which a mother has rahma for her child.�

Prophet taught that the rahma, loving compassion, is an attribute derived from the root rahim, meaning a womb.

(3:06) ...it is He who shapes you all in the womb (arhaam) as He pleases

Indeed He expressed His loving compassion to us thereby giving us mothers who are compassionately loving in nature.

The Prophet taught that God's love for His slave is 70 times more than a mother has for her child.

DavidC wrote: My question to the Muslim is this: Why did God create mankind? Angels already existed to worship Him, Jinn already existed to fear Him. The only possible answer is emotional experience.

To know Him. If we would know Him then we would love Him.

Hadith Qudsi says Allah (swt) says He was a treasure unknown loving to be known, so He manifested the creation to be known

Our man made concepts of God are the barriers that veil us from His Love....

Allah (swt) says 'Abandon your nafs (ego i.e. evil self), and come to Me! Your very self is the cloud hiding the sun you are after! Know yourself

DavidC wrote: Why did Allah create a new form of life? To experience love. Not the love of a slave or a creation. Not the preexistent knowledge of love but a true mutual, undemanded embrace. We are God's emotional connection to His creation. We are not God's slaves, but His emotional connections to creation.

A lover submits his own will to the Beloved's will and does not demand for his own will to be accepted.

....and when they truly submit then wherever they look they see nothing but His Wajh (Face)...

(2:115).... wherever you turn, there is His Face. God is all pervading and all knowing. They have asserted, �God has a child.� May He be exalted! No! Everything in the heavens and earth belongs to Him, everything devoutly obeys His will.

It is the love that makes us realize His Omnipresence therefore our refuge becomes the Omnipotent

...and how can we bear the separation when we pray 'Ya Rabbi I worship you not because I crave your paradise neither do I worship you because I fear your Hellfire for I do so only because You are worthy of being worshiped. Ya rabbi do not abandon us to ourselves even for a twinkling of an eye.'

Edited by syed_z - 28 November 2016 at 9:47pm

syed_z wrote: I see that you are already doing it with the concept of Trinity.

Do you see more than Allah? From the Quran we can intelligently and logically infer with reason that Allah strongly implies the Christian three concept consisted of son, mother and father. Nothing could be further from the truth, because no Christians believe in such a thing and never did!!! If the Quran shows a misconception of what Christians believed, and believe still today, does that constitute a discrepancy? With all due respect, you really don't see anything.

Edited by Saved - 09 December 2016 at 6:02am