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A Non Idolatrous Association

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    Posted: 20 November 2016 at 6:43pm
I will admit that we Christians associate Jesus to the one and only true God as His Word. Please note the gospel states Jesus is not a result of God's Word. Jesus is the Word Allah used to create all things and all prophets. Jn. 1

What throws people off is that Jesus is God's Word made human according to the gospel that Allah sent for guidance and light. Those that reject this do so at their own peril.

This is not an idolatrous association. No other prophet is the Word of God only Jesus, and that is what makes Him very, very, very special beyond all prophets; His virgin birth proves this point according to what we can infer logically and truthfully from the gospel.

If we have to or had mention any other prophet with Allah as an oracle of our faith that would absolutely be an idolatrous association.

Edited by Saved - 20 November 2016 at 9:27pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote syed_z Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 November 2016 at 8:05pm
Originally posted by Saved Saved wrote:

I will admit that we Christians associate Jesus to the one and only true God as His Word. Please note the gospel states Jesus is not a result of God's Word. Jesus is the Word Allah used to create all things and all prophets. Jn. 1


Saved,

Your concept of Jesus, son of Mary (alaihi Salaam) to be the word of God through which Allah created all things and not the result of God's word. To support this view you quoted Book of John Verse 1:

In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God. (John:1)

The Old testament that also prophesies about Jesus, Son of Mary (alaihi Salaam) as the Messiah to come is very clear about the concept of God. So why would he teach something different on his arrival? Why would he claim to be God? or one with God and blaspheme against the biggest fundamental truth that God has always taught mankind that He is one?:

�Know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the LORD he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else.� (Deut: 4-39)

�See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no God with me: ...� (Deut: 32-39) �

�Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.� �I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.� �... saith the LORD, that I am God.� (Is: 43-10, 11, 12)

 �Thus saith the LORD...; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.� (Is: 44-6) �

�I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: ...� (Is: 45-5)

�... have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.� �Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.� (ibid: 21, 22)

Originally posted by Saved Saved wrote:


What throws people off is that Jesus is God's Word made human according to the gospel that Allah sent for guidance and light. Those that reject this do so at their own peril.

This is not an idolatrous association. No other prophet is the Word of God only Jesus, and that is what makes Him very, very, very special beyond all prophets; His virgin birth proves this point according to what we can infer logically and truthfully from the gospel.


The reason why it throws people off is because Jesus, son of Mary (alaihi Salaam) himself said that he was nothing more than a human prophet like all other prophets who passed before him.

�And when he was come into Jerusalem, all the city was moved, saying, Who is this?� �And the multitude said, This is Jesus the prophet of Nazareth of Galilee.� (Matt: 21-10, 11)

�... A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house.� (Matt: 13-57)

�Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:� (Acts: 2-22)

Whats really perilous is the fact that just for Book of John Verse 1 you are willing to reject all other words of God in the OT and words of Son of Mary (alaihi Salaam) in the NT that explicitly state that He is only one and without any partners.

Originally posted by Saved Saved wrote:


If we have to or had mention any other prophet with Allah as an oracle of our faith that would absolutely be an idolatrous association.


I see that you are already doing it with the concept of Trinity.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DavidC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 November 2016 at 9:48pm
The Greek word used in John 1:1 is logos, not Jesus.

From Mounce's lexicon:

a word, a thing uttered, Mt. 12:32, 37; 1 Cor. 14:19; speech, language, talk, Mt. 22:15; Lk. 20:20; 2 Cor. 10:10; Jas. 3:2; converse, Lk. 24:17; mere talk, wordy show, 1 Cor. 4:19, 20; Col. 2:23; 1 Jn. 3:18; language, mode of discourse, style of speaking, Mt. 5:37; 1 Cor. 1:17; 1 Thess. 2:5; a saying, a speech, Mk. 7:29; Eph. 4:29; an expression, form of words, formula, Mt. 26:44; Rom. 13:9; Gal. 5:14; a saying, a thing propounded in discourse, Mt. 7:24; 19:11; Jn. 4:37; 6:60; 1 Tim. 1:15; a message, announcement, 2 Cor. 5:19; a prophetic announcement, Jn. 12:38; an account, statement, 1 Pet. 3:15; a story, report, Mt. 28:15; Jn. 4:39; 21:23; 2 Thess. 2:2; a written narrative, a treatise, Acts 1:1; a set discourse, Acts 20:7; doctrine, Jn. 8:31, 37; 2 Tim. 2:17; subject-matter, Acts 15:6; reckoning, account, Mt. 12:36; 18:23; 25:19; Lk. 16:2; Acts 19:40; 20:24; Rom. 9:28; Phil. 4:15, 17; Heb. 4:13; a plea, Mt. 5:32; Acts 19:38; a motive, Acts 10:29; reason, Acts 18:14; ὁ λόγος, the word of God, especially in the Gospel, Mt. 13:21, 22; Mk. 16:20; Lk. 1:2; Acts 6:4; ὁ λόγος, the divine WORD, or Logos, Jn. 1:1 → message; report; word
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote syed_z Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 November 2016 at 5:48am
I didnt understand that. Could you please explain in more clear terms.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DavidC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 November 2016 at 8:04am
Originally posted by syed_z syed_z wrote:

I didnt understand that. Could you please explain in more clear terms.

Sorry. I was a bit rushed and cut and pasted too much.

Mounce is one of the foremost lexicons of Koin� Greek. The word used in John 1:1 is logos which means word or message. The belief that this means Jesus is common Christian dogma but this translation is not supported by Scripture.

Edited by DavidC - 26 November 2016 at 8:04am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote syed_z Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 November 2016 at 2:53pm
Thank you David. What is the correct translation then for John verse 1? How do Christians know what is the message of Jesus son of Mary (alaihi salaam).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DavidC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 November 2016 at 5:10pm
Originally posted by syed_z syed_z wrote:

Thank you David. What is the correct translation then for John verse 1? How do Christians know what is the message of Jesus son of Mary (alaihi salaam).

Any bible will give a good translation. Discussion of what the message is the common activity of Christianity. Christianity is into asking better questions more than producing pat answers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote syed_z Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 November 2016 at 9:07am
Originally posted by DavidC DavidC wrote:

Originally posted by syed_z syed_z wrote:

Thank you David. What is the correct translation then for John verse 1? How do Christians know what is the message of Jesus son of Mary (alaihi salaam).

Any bible will give a good translation. Discussion of what the message is the common activity of Christianity. Christianity is into asking better questions more than producing pat answers.


How would you know what the message of Jesus son of Mary (alaihi Salaam) is when the medium of delivery i.e. Gospel is not clear for you?

What is a better question btw?

Thank you.
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