Heaven or Hell

asep48garut60 wrote: ...Affection Allah in the Quran is conditional, because if it's not conditional, then humans in their life will be free to follow what their will without any signs that can distinguish between good and bad, should or not etc... The above are your words and you already posted them so no need to hide yourself. The above claim about the Quran is false. Allah mentions warning of punishment but His Mercy is greater and prevails. Allah orders us to be merciful and loving and this has already been shared with you on other threads. Regards, Asep

You are the one that wrote Allah's love is conditional not me and you even gave the reason. I am the one that said: According to what you say here Allah's love doesn't go as far as humankind. Think of this, a parent of a child that does wrongly is still loved by the parent unconditionally. The parent will punish the child with unconditional love for correcting purposes, but you say Allah uses his love conditionally, uhm; in other words, your God is not capable of loving unconditionally. Is that right? I know what you said and no one is trying to hide anything.


Edited by Saved - 16 November 2016 at 7:15pm

asep48garut60 wrote: Dear Saved, Yes, I wrote that Allah�s love is conditional as mentioned in Quran 3:76.

Yes, now you are admitting that you said Allah's love is conditional

asep48garut60 wrote: The love of Allah is given to: 1. All mankind who are obedient to Allah, their Messengers, and worship only to Allah, they will be loved by God. (Quran 3:31), etc.

This is my point; the Allah of Islam loves conditionally; the Allah of the gospel (Christianity) loves unconditionally. A parent can love their disobedient child unconditionally as I mentioned, but according to what you say, Allah is not able to love more than mankind, because his love is conditional.
The disciples that were killed for their faith in Jesus loved the unbelievers till the end like Jesus loved those that hated and denied him.

asep48garut60 wrote: 2. All those who repent and then just worship to Allah, then they will be forgiven and receive the love of Allah. (Quran 16:119), etc.

All those that repent according to the gospel will be saved, but they were always loved even in their rebellion against God, but they will not be saved or go to paradise. Hell is not God's hate; it is the unbelievers choice to be without God.

asep48garut60 wrote: This verse opens the widest door for all sinners and perform faults, even though their sins have reached the ends of the sky. Prophet Muhammad said: "If you make mistakes (sins) and your fault reached the ends of the sky, then you repent, Allah SWT will give repentance to you." (Narrated by Ibn Majah from Abi Hurairah).

Mistakes are not sins. Sin is anything that separates us from God. It is written in the gospel that he that has the son has life, and he that does not have the son has not life, but the wrath of God abides on him, now even this God does in love. There is no such thing as conditional love when it comes to the God of the gospel. God's love passes human understanding. According to the Allah you describe, this is not the case.

asep48garut60 wrote: 3. All mankind who don't know that there is a God who created this universe and its contents, but they are well behaved, then they will get the love of Allah, including innocent children. (Quran 33:5), etc.

All mankind is without excuse for not believing in God, because the heavens alone declare His glory. All unbelief is sin. It always was and always will be.

asep48garut60 wrote: Prophet Muhammad said: "Verily Allah Almighty forgive mistakes unintentionally and errors due to forgetfulness and mistakes are forced to do." (From Ibn Abbas r.a.)

Again all unintentional mistakes and errors are not sins.

asep48garut60 wrote: Allah forgives all the sins of mankind, except for those who ascribed partners to Allah. (Quran 4:48)

This contradicts everything you just quoted. This is saying that even though your sins reach the ends of the sky, then you repent, Allah will not forgive you, because you ascribed a partner to God. Muslims don't even believe this otherwise all those who believe Jesus is the son of God which you consider to be ascribing partners to God cannot be forgiven even if they convert to Islam. Sorry, but your reasoning is circular here and the Allah you profess is limited to conditional love when God really created man to love unconditionally.

Edited by Saved - 17 November 2016 at 5:35pm

Dear Saved,

In Islam that Allah is the Most Gracious, Most Merciful, as these words more than 100 times are found in the Quran. But not as easy as what we said, Allah will give His love to those who follow His commands.
For those who don't run His commands, if they repent before death, and then worship to Allah, then their sins will be forgiven and Allah will love them.

We can imagine if humans are not given the regulations and requirements in their live, they can do whatever their will freely.

Although God has given His commandments to mankind, but they sometimes breaking such commandments. That's the purpose in Islam that God's love is conditional.

Regards,
Asep

Dear Saved,

You said:
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the Scriptures say for the wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ out Lord. Ro. 3:23 and 6:23.
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Do you mean that the sins of sinners will be redeemed by Jesus when they die? how their lives to the next ?

And you said:
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If you live by the laws of Allah and expect to be judged by how well you do them, Allah will have to be just and reward you or anyone for failure, because no one has been able to keep all the laws of God perfectly. You would have to be perfect and only Jesus was perfect. The mercy and gift of God was to send us Jesus.
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No one can run all the commands of Allah perfectly, but Allah is the Wise, and He is scrupulous about all calculations. Therefore, humans only commanded to worship Him according to His laws, and only Allah has all determinants. So, whether they will succeed or fail in running all His commandments, only Allah knows it.

And you said:
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If we reject God's gift of mercy, we'll be judged by the law.
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Yes, we�ll be judged by the law, and I�ll be judged by Quran.

And you said:
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Jesus predicted His death several times; look at Matthew 17. Jesus wasn't a false prophet. Islam makes the Jesus of the gospel appear as a false prophet, because it states he didn't die much less for our sin.
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I strongly believe that Jesus is not a false prophet, even Islam glorifies Jesus with all the advantages of his miracles. Jesus was saved not the opinion of Islam, but the word of Allah in the Quran 4:157-158.

In Islam, all humans when they die will be responsible for everything they've done, while the Prophet Muhammad is just as intercessors (this also applies to all of Allah's Messengers), and the final decision only on Allah.

And you said:
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IMHO, this is a plan of deception to judge our souls in the end when it is too late to make changes and repent so that Satan will claim us for hell and judgment.
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Allah, the angels, the Apostles, all religions in the world, and all people who don't make or change the laws of God, they don't make fraud.
But that makes fraud is those who have made or changed the word of God with the will of their hearts.

Regards,
Asep