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The Science Illusion

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Tim the plumber View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tim the plumber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 April 2018 at 2:33am
Originally posted by Pete Pete wrote:

All to often people who don't understand science correctly make the mistake that scientists have "proved" something or other when in fact all science is based on the laws of science and by its nature a law cannot be proved. Its assumed to be true, nothing more.
 
Also, all too often, far too many people believe that what is written in a religious text is fact when in fact its not. All religious texts which are accepted by an individual is assumed to be correct, i.e. taken as true by faith. By definition faith is the strong belief in something that cannot be proved.
 
Also, the scope of science is not universal and has never been taken as being universal. By that I mean that science is not something that applies to all areas of human concern. For example: science cannot tell you whether the drinking age should be 16 or 21. Science cannot tell you whether the speed limit should be 55 mph or 85 mph. Science cannot tell you whether a philosophy text is true or not.
 
However there's nothing wrong with the notion that science might be able to determine whether there is/was a creator or not. Science might even be able to determine whether the story of Moses receiving the 10 commandments on Mount Sinai is true or not. By those statements I mean that scientific efforts such as archeology has made discoveries which confirm what religious documents state. Especially when what it states is historical in nature. For example: the book of Genesis states (in one particular translation) that there was a path on Mount Sinai which was paved with sapphire. The correct translation really states only that the path was paved with blue stone. On one of the mountains suspected of being the Mount Sinai in Genesis a large amount of blue stone was discovered confirms what that the account in Genesis states.
 
There's more on that point here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_Mount_Sinai which says
Quote
Archaeological artifacts discovered at the top of the mountain indicate that it was once covered by polished shiny blue slate
 
Not too many years ago cosmologists at MIT showed how an advanced race/beings could create a universe so the notion of a universe being created by a being is well within the realm of science.
 
I recall a long time ago asking a person what they would think if they witnessed "miraculous" events such as those stated in the Bible. Their answer "I'd assumed it was caused by an advanced alien using science" (or something like that) which shows how closed minded they were. An "alien" ,in that context, is merely an intelligent being which originated somewhere other than here on Earth. And that's precisely what God is.
 


Whilst bits of the bible are correct, the places and cities were there, were real, that does not make the claims of devine magic real.

There is a path of blue stones on mount Sinai, so? That does not mean that God came down to give the commandments to some goat herding nomad. It strongly implies that the gaot herder had been arond there nad had either seen or heard of this patch of blue stone, or it was added later... but not the God bit.

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Pete View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 March 2018 at 5:25am
All to often people who don't understand science correctly make the mistake that scientists have "proved" something or other when in fact all science is based on the laws of science and by its nature a law cannot be proved. Its assumed to be true, nothing more.
 
Also, all too often, far too many people believe that what is written in a religious text is fact when in fact its not. All religious texts which are accepted by an individual is assumed to be correct, i.e. taken as true by faith. By definition faith is the strong belief in something that cannot be proved.
 
Also, the scope of science is not universal and has never been taken as being universal. By that I mean that science is not something that applies to all areas of human concern. For example: science cannot tell you whether the drinking age should be 16 or 21. Science cannot tell you whether the speed limit should be 55 mph or 85 mph. Science cannot tell you whether a philosophy text is true or not.
 
However there's nothing wrong with the notion that science might be able to determine whether there is/was a creator or not. Science might even be able to determine whether the story of Moses receiving the 10 commandments on Mount Sinai is true or not. By those statements I mean that scientific efforts such as archeology has made discoveries which confirm what religious documents state. Especially when what it states is historical in nature. For example: the book of Genesis states (in one particular translation) that there was a path on Mount Sinai which was paved with sapphire. The correct translation really states only that the path was paved with blue stone. On one of the mountains suspected of being the Mount Sinai in Genesis a large amount of blue stone was discovered confirms what that the account in Genesis states.
 
There's more on that point here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_Mount_Sinai which says
Quote
Archaeological artifacts discovered at the top of the mountain indicate that it was once covered by polished shiny blue slate
 
Not too many years ago cosmologists at MIT showed how an advanced race/beings could create a universe so the notion of a universe being created by a being is well within the realm of science.
 
I recall a long time ago asking a person what they would think if they witnessed "miraculous" events such as those stated in the Bible. Their answer "I'd assumed it was caused by an advanced alien using science" (or something like that) which shows how closed minded they were. An "alien" ,in that context, is merely an intelligent being which originated somewhere other than here on Earth. And that's precisely what God is.
 
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Tim the plumber View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tim the plumber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 December 2017 at 7:01am
Originally posted by Tobias Tobias wrote:

We both think each other crazy,,   That's obvious,,   But when you look at the ruling classes of our world,, Again, Objectively, You will find that they need the human race to be immersed in conflict in order to serve their agenda,, This is one conflicting subject among many others,,    The earth has only been believed to be a sphere for around 500 years,   This ruling elites bloodlines have held power since the summarians, About 6000 years ago..   
Meantime I suggest you have a look at this link,, It will answer all of your questions,   And have tangeable proof against gravity, vision , etc,    

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ax_YpQsy88

Even an object the size of 10 football fields cannot be seen by humans at the distance of the supposed space station...

You claim to know science, Then practice some of your own without listening to anyone,, Especially scientists,   Then you will see.


Quote Here's an interesting question�at what distance can the human eye detect a candle flame? Put this conundrum to Google and the first answer says it is possible to see a candle flickering up to 48 kilometers (30 miles) away, considerably further than the horizon.31 Jul 2015

If the ISS is illuminated by the sun, and it is shinny so it reflets light well you will easily see it as a moving bright spot against the night sky.

With a decent, cheap, telescope you will be able to see the detail of it.

I will not spend time looking at drivel you are unable to describe.

This idea of the ruling elites is more mad drivel.


Edited by Tim the plumber - 09 December 2017 at 7:03am
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Tobias View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tobias Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 December 2017 at 1:04am
That's OK.     Some people do not have the capacity to go beyond a belief system.     The matrix movie by the way is a good way to consider our so called reality..   I consider that movie to be a clue given to us by the ruling elite,,   same as avatar and many others..
Nevertheless,,   I respect your condition, have a happy day..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote airmano Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 December 2017 at 1:47pm
@Tobias
Quote Nothing is physical. Only perceived through five senses for humans..

Are you a "Matrix" fan ?

Honestly, I do not understand anything from your post.

Airmano

Edited by airmano - 06 December 2017 at 1:48pm
The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses (Albert Einstein 1954, in his "Gods Letter")
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Tim the plumber View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tim the plumber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 December 2017 at 2:24am
Originally posted by Tobias Tobias wrote:

How do you know that Satan, or Shaytan is any kind of entity??    How do you know that god is any kind of entity??    Going by faith of others??    Not good enough..
Science gives us many things but where does the understanding of leds and computers originate?
Tell me,,   are you aware that this earth is in 5th cycle?   Meaning that we have undergone 4 cycles of civilisations and the technologies already..
We are discovering ancient nuclear plutonium rods underground..


No we have not.

In a million years the archeology of our roads, swers, railways, sky scrapers and all the rest will be utterly obvious to any amature with any interest in these things. We have not been here before.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tobias Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 December 2017 at 2:09am
We both think each other crazy,,   That's obvious,,   But when you look at the ruling classes of our world,, Again, Objectively, You will find that they need the human race to be immersed in conflict in order to serve their agenda,, This is one conflicting subject among many others,,    The earth has only been believed to be a sphere for around 500 years,   This ruling elites bloodlines have held power since the summarians, About 6000 years ago..   
Meantime I suggest you have a look at this link,, It will answer all of your questions,   And have tangeable proof against gravity, vision , etc,    

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ax_YpQsy88

Even an object the size of 10 football fields cannot be seen by humans at the distance of the supposed space station...

You claim to know science, Then practice some of your own without listening to anyone,, Especially scientists,   Then you will see.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tim the plumber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 December 2017 at 3:42am
Originally posted by Tobias Tobias wrote:

I am not here to ongoingly wrangle with someone who has obviously not taken the time to find out what is closer to the truth than what we has been taught to us by the institutions of this plane,t.
It makes perfect sense to me that you continue to follow the norm of the masses,,   for now,,,    because it both serves your egoism and your laziness,   plus its much more comfortable for you to be the same as your peers..


Unlucky. When you spout gibberish I will tell you that you are doing so and also tell the world. Your lies will not be going unchallenged.

Quote I can't blame you at all.
I don't know who "Us" is when you refer to it,    Or who it is I am to think its ok to that they might be simple st#�!d people??
This is our debate,, no one else's,,    
Its not nice to apply others or make such a childish statement,,     have some respect,


Eh?

Quote I have come to this seemingly sensible site to learn more about what the Quran has to say about the firmament and the state of our domain..
Here I link genesis on this subject..   Genesis one,, In the beginning,,,   passage 6.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+1&version=NIV

To me,,   this is a clue,, a symbol,, a direction to discover,,

I am looking for signs in the Quran that might be similar to these words..
I also went through the stage of ridiculing this revealing,,   for years,,,    then I understood...

Now I'm not interested in trying to convince stubborn people that take zero time to discover for themselves..

I will answer any questions you might have as far as this debate goes,,    please ask awkward questions about how the earth cannot have a firmament or being flat or anything else you can think of..    Pull it apart if you can,,    but don't resort to belittling people,   its very insulting and frustrating.


Not bothering with actual facts there, straight to the whach jobs.

Quote BTW,     ISS is supposedly 400 kilometers above sea level and as big as a double decker bus,,,!
Would you be able to see a double decker bus 400 kilometers away????
What you see in the sky is military craft traveling at speeds of mach 2 or more,,


A double decker buss with extended solar pannels. Well 3 seconds research changes that;

Quote The dimensions of the completed ISS research facility will be approximately 356 feet (109 meters) by 240 feet (73 meters), or slightly larger than a football field. When completed, the ISS will weigh around 450 tons (408,000 kg), or 450 times the weight of an average car.12 May 2010

Quote If we indeed have sattelites ,, then why do our phones become without service when out of phone tower range?

The whole earth would be covered without interruption if served by the fictitional sattelites..


https://www.globaltelesat.co.uk/satellite-phones?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIkYiX8d_y1wIVg73tCh3ohQArEAAYAyAAEgJ_wPD_BwE

You can get the ones that use a signal straight up to the satalites or the normal cheaper ones that use the local tower to get into the communication network.

Quote You say gravity is understood???
Please send me the explanatory link..   I would like to see the formulae for it,,
Meantime, here's one of our leading scientists telling us its misunderstood.. Neil degrass.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=22s&v=Efh4bu4rcbs


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Bq82MmGNFE

That we have not the total complete understanding of the universe does not mean that we have no understanding of it. In physics you will have to start at the bottom and work up. Jumping in at the front edge of research and speculation will just confuse you.

Quote A little question for you...    Why does our atmosphere not get stripped off into the vacuume of space?


Good question. The answer is that the pressure down here is due to all the air above us pressing down in us. The pressure drops as you go up. At the top of the atmosphere the prssure is zero. Although as this happens the density of the air is also dropping, so the actual top of the atmosphere is sort of a vague fading away thing. The gravity of the earth is still pulling down on those atoms at the top though.

Also, it is being striped away by the solar wind. And refreshed by geological process from the earth which produce nitrogen and carbondioxide mostly from volcanoes.


Quote Another,,,   how can I use a zoom lens to see a ship 80 nautical miles away without it disappearing into the curvature?


Only by standing on a high mountain or being in a plane.

Quote Another,,,
What model mostly proves to us that we have a creator?


Eh? There is no scientific evidence that such a thing exists.

Quote Another,
How do we feel the heat of the sun when its 93 million miles away and so small in the sky??


Because it is so hot.

Quote The temperature at the surface of the Sun is about 10,000 Fahrenheit (5,600 Celsius). The temperature rises from the surface of the Sun inward towards the very hot center of the Sun where it reaches about 27,000,000 Fahrenheit (15,000,000 Celsius).


Quote Another,,,
How do we not see the other side of the moon when every other so called planets supposedly rotate??


Because as it orbits around the earth it rotates to show the same face to the earth due to being tidally locked. This is where the gravity of a body which is close to another which has liquid oceans on it causes tides in those oceans. The effect of these is to slow the earth's rotation. And to slow the moon's. The moon being smaller has had a greater effect from this and has stopped sooner.


Quote Another,
How does a compass work on a ball??


Eh? Same as it works on your hand! The magnetic field of the earth is a 3 dimensional thing as all magnetic fields are.

Quote Another,,
Airplanes stay level in flight,,,    why don't they end up in space...    Check that one,, its a doozy.


Because they stay parallel to the earth's surface. That is they slowly arc forward/down to keep at the same altitude. The process is so  slow that it is imperceptable.

Quote Another,,,
Why is the sky blue when space is black??


Because the colour of water is blue and there is a lot of it floating around as vapour in the air. Thus the light scattered around by it from the sun gets coloured blue.

Quote All these things are so simple for anyone to consider.. Yet people like your good self deny these facts and overlook the devastating anomalies in front of them..


Any very easy to find out about with your computer. Do so. Then think of how you can check them and do some checks. Enjoy the process. It will be fun.

Quote Please,,,    be deductive and not abusive..
Its much more beneficial...

Put ego, belief, laziness, indoctrines, etc on the shelf for a short while and open up to the possibilities.
It does pay...    As crazy as these things sound to you now,,,    It will make perfect sense if you take the discovery time and make you more grounded and at one with everything.. [


Namaste.


If you post claims that are drivel I will tell you so. I will tell you to stop lying and being a fool.

If you ask questions, although fewer at a time would be good, I will do my best to answer them. I will not be able to answer every thing. When this happens I will say that I do not know. Occaisionally I will be wrong. I will not do this deliberately or knowingly. We all make mystakes.



Edited by Tim the plumber - 05 December 2017 at 3:46am
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