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i believe Quran and Bible

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ovibos View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ovibos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 November 2016 at 8:08pm
Originally posted by 786SalamKhan 786SalamKhan wrote:

If you believe the Bible, you must keep in mind, you would not pick up a Quran, and interpret it however way you want.

There are many books in the Bible, the books of the New Testament were written by some of the Apostles of Christ; the Twelve, and the Seventy. These men either directly knew and were chosen by Christ Himself to spread the Gospel and Baptise in the Name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, or, they directly knew the aforementioned men and also had authority to do what they did.


This is one of the examples how the Bible's authors edited the Bible.
The verse that you cited is from Matthew 28:19.

Did you know that Matthew originally wrote the Bible in Semitic language (either Hebrew or Aramaic)? Church Fathers like Papias and Jerome confirmed that Matthew wrote his gospel in Hebrew, which Jerome called it as matthaei authenticum (the original Matthew), which was written in Hebrew.

The Hebrew Matthew had been lost for centuries, but they still have a copy of copy of copy of that text. One of the copy of the Hebrew Matthew is from Shem Tov. In the version of Shem-Tov, there's is no Trinity in Matthew 28:19.
Obviously that the trinity part of the verse is an addition by later author/editor.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ovibos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 November 2016 at 8:27pm
Originally posted by 786SalamKhan 786SalamKhan wrote:


The "people of the book" claim to still have those books which you implied to be either lost or corrupted, which would be an incredibly serious claim to make, not something you can claim lightly and hope no one will question you.

What you must do is prove with irrefutable evidence; when, where, why and how these books were either lost or corrupted.

I think the best example is the gospel.
Are the canonical gospel authentic?

Many scholars believe that the author of Mark, Matthew, and Luke didn't write their gospel independently. Rather, they copied form other source(s), i.e. Matthew and Luke copied from Mark and another Lost Gospel called Q.

Many scholars believe that the Lost Gospel Q is the original gospel, the first gospel, and the earliest gospel. The most important thing about Jesus according to the Gospel is his sayings and his teachings such as "the Sermon on the Mount".
There are no stories about Jesus's death, crucifixion, and resurrection in the gospel. In short, Jesus' birth, death, crucifixion, and resurrection is not that important according to the original gospel.

Only later that the New Testament authors changed this view, and they claim that Jesus's death and resurrection is the central theme of Christianity.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ovibos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 November 2016 at 8:42pm
Originally posted by 2Acts 2Acts wrote:


 The Quaran is clear it says the Bible is the Word of God. S. 19.30, S. 5:46, S. 57:27, S. 5:46.

The verses above talk about the Gospel (or Injil), not the Christian Bible (from Genesis to Revelation).

Which Gospel does Quran talk about? Are they the canonical gospels? No!
I believe that the gospel that Quran mentions is the original gospel, maybe it's the Lost Gospel Q, or maybe it's the Hebrew Matthew which Jerome called it as "matthaei authenticum".

FYI, according to ahadith from Bukhari, Waraqa ibn Naufal - the uncle of the Prophet's wife, did translate a gospel from hebrew to arabic.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ceo3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 November 2016 at 9:31pm
Thank you ovibos for info.

Dear 2acts,

I appreciate the corteous dialogue

Christianity and Islam are diff idelogies therefore one cant believe in both from that point of view. By compliments I mean to say the similarities of creation of earth and man, judgement day, the Prophets as. We believe in Taugeed, Islam and Muhhamad saw was last messenger, that for us is cast in stone and offers no compromise.

[16:125] You shall invite to the path of your Lord with wisdom and kind enlightenment, and debate with them in the best possible manner. Your Lord knows best who has strayed from His path, and He knows best who are the guided ones.

Above is verse in Quran which guides our religious debates. We are not allowed to critisize, attack or question excessively other faiths core beliefs. We are only to explain what Islam is and what if offers. Therefore our passion when conveying especially Quran, its up to each person to make own decision.

Take care
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saved Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 November 2016 at 6:55pm
Originally posted by ovibos ovibos wrote:


Originally posted by 2Acts 2Acts wrote:

�The Quaran is clear it says the Bible is the Word of God. S. 19.30, S. 5:46, S. 57:27, S. 5:46.
The verses above talk about the Gospel (or Injil), not the Christian Bible (from Genesis to Revelation).Which Gospel does Quran talk about? Are they the canonical gospels? No!I believe that the gospel that Quran mentions is the original gospel, maybe it's the Lost Gospel Q, or maybe it's the Hebrew Matthew which Jerome called it as "matthaei authenticum".FYI, according to ahadith from Bukhari, Waraqa ibn Naufal - the uncle of the Prophet's wife, did translate a gospel from hebrew to arabic.

Hi Ovibos:

We've the same gospel Muhammad had in his hand in the 7th century when Allah told him he sent it for guidance and light.

Nothing got lost from the gospel. The Quran is clear that the gospel is the unaltered, incorruptible word of Allah, and he commands that the People of the Book (Christians) "stand on the revelation that has been revealed to them for we can do no other" How do we know it is not corrupted? It is because Allah told us to stand on the revelation revealed to us.

The revelation of the gospel revealed that Jesus was born of a virgin sinless and he died and rose from the dead to save us from our sin. Jesus was the only person without sin to save us. All others fall short of God's glory. A drowning man cannot save a drowning man. Jesus was the only person that was found not to be drowning in sin. That is the revelation we got and stand on.

People can interpret the Quran differently when it comes to the gospel being the word of Allah, I accept that Allah was right in telling us to stand firm on our revelation from the gospel.

Those that disbelieve, are free to do so, but no one is free from the consequences of their choices. The gospel states that there is no other name given under heaven whereby we might be saved but the name of Jesus Christ.

Is it true that you can justify almost any interpretation of the Quran; for instance, one can make an argument such as I have been doing by showing the Quran and the gospel agree in areas that Muslims don't or one can interpret it as a declaration of war on all unbelievers like Isis or one can see Islam as a religion of peace in that they are not trying to force sharia on the world?



PBUY,
Al



Edited by Saved - 06 November 2016 at 6:30am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saved Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 November 2016 at 6:25am
We are commanded to love our enemies in the gospel. What does the Quran teach you to do to those that oppose you?

Edited by Saved - 06 November 2016 at 6:28am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 2Acts Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 November 2016 at 11:16pm
Originally posted by asep48garut60 asep48garut60 wrote:

Dear Saved,

After a long time I studied the Bible, yes, that there are parts of the contents are not guaranteed its purity, therefore, I can't turn away from the Quran where the purity of Allah's words is still assured.

I am a person who is not easy to believe in a book before I learned also the other books as comparative study like the Bible, the Tripitaka (Buddhist) and the Veda (Hindu).

For muslims, only Allah the savior of the best.

Regards,
Asep

Hello Asep.
The oldest Quran in existence was found in Sanaa Yemen in the 1970s. It proves the Quran is not pure, but is influenced by man.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 2Acts Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 November 2016 at 11:30pm
Originally posted by Saved Saved wrote:

Originally posted by ovibos ovibos wrote:


Originally posted by 2Acts 2Acts wrote:

�The Quaran is clear it says the Bible is the Word of God. S. 19.30, S. 5:46, S. 57:27, S. 5:46.
The verses above talk about the Gospel (or Injil), not the Christian Bible (from Genesis to Revelation).Which Gospel does Quran talk about? Are they the canonical gospels? No!I believe that the gospel that Quran mentions is the original gospel, maybe it's the Lost Gospel Q, or maybe it's the Hebrew Matthew which Jerome called it as "matthaei authenticum".FYI, according to ahadith from Bukhari, Waraqa ibn Naufal - the uncle of the Prophet's wife, did translate a gospel from hebrew to arabic.

Hi Ovibos:

We've the same gospel Muhammad had in his hand in the 7th century when Allah told him he sent it for guidance and light.

Nothing got lost from the gospel. The Quran is clear that the gospel is the unaltered, incorruptible word of Allah, and he commands that the People of the Book (Christians) "stand on the revelation that has been revealed to them for we can do no other" How do we know it is not corrupted? It is because Allah told us to stand on the revelation revealed to us.

The revelation of the gospel revealed that Jesus was born of a virgin sinless and he died and rose from the dead to save us from our sin. Jesus was the only person without sin to save us. All others fall short of God's glory. A drowning man cannot save a drowning man. Jesus was the only person that was found not to be drowning in sin. That is the revelation we got and stand on.

People can interpret the Quran differently when it comes to the gospel being the word of Allah, I accept that Allah was right in telling us to stand firm on our revelation from the gospel.

Those that disbelieve, are free to do so, but no one is free from the consequences of their choices. The gospel states that there is no other name given under heaven whereby we might be saved but the name of Jesus Christ.

Is it true that you can justify almost any interpretation of the Quran; for instance, one can make an argument such as I have been doing by showing the Quran and the gospel agree in areas that Muslims don't or one can interpret it as a declaration of war on all unbelievers like Isis or one can see Islam as a religion of peace in that they are not trying to force sharia on the world?



PBUY,
Al


Exactly Saved
We've the same gospel Muhammad had in his hand in the 7th century when Allah told him he sent it for guidance and light. These are the same established canon Gospels of Mathew, Mark, Luke and John. No others were canon. Therefore Muslims must believe in them. That is logical and historical.
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