Syria; What outcome would you like?

Caringheart wrote: Greetings abuayisha,With regards to what I emboldened...Isn't that what the Syrian people were trying to do ... assert their desire for a regime change?� ....and their leader Assad is the one who responded with military might....killing his own people by the thousands when they were in peaceful demonstration, and bombing their cities to pieces

Indeed I believe a small group of Syrian citizens voiced concern for regime change, but what has followed in terms of armed conflict is fueled primarily from outsiders. What is being called a "civil war" in Syria, in my opinion, is a misnomer. The heavy-handedness of the Syrian government's response to protesters simply pales in comparison to bloodletting brought about through outside military interference in Syria attempting to topple a legitimate government. A government that vast majority of Syrians support.

Caringheart wrote: abuayisha wrote: Tim there are extremists in every country, and I don't think must of us are asking what type of governance they want. Why should Muslim lands be any different? People want and desire civil society - worldwide, in my estimation. With respect to Assad, that is for the Syrian people to decide, but it was a monumental mistake to oppose him militarily. Greetings abuayisha, With regards to what I emboldened... Isn't that what the Syrian people were trying to do ... assert their desire for a regime change?  .... and their leader Assad is the one who responded with military might.... killing his own people by the thousands when they were in peaceful demonstration, and bombing their cities to pieces. (I remember because I wept it seems, every night, because the news showed daily, for months, how once beautiful Syria was being destroyed.) People seem to be so unaware of how all the turmoil in Syria started. The world... having stood by once before, doing nothing, while a leader enslaved the people of a nation, and committed atrocities, until almost too late... felt it was only right to respond to a leader behaving in such a fashion.  Yes, such a leader should be removed.  The difficulty seems to be, in finding a better leader to take his place.  Islam is not a good system of management... it engenders too much prejudice. asalaam and blessings, Caringheart

The picture as viewed from the outside of the Arab Spring is that there are a few pro-democracy types who wanted the sort of freedoms we in the West enjoy but once there was the opening for a power grab the Islamist parties were the most powerful and indeed had the largest popular support.

We have utterly failed to make a decent modern state in Iraq so we have been very reticent to try it again elsewhere. Even when we did try it with an arms length approach to giving the regeme a small prod in Lybia it has resulted in chaos.

That's why we have not done anything about Assad.

Also when we look at the opposition to him all we see are Islamic fundimentalists.

abuayisha wrote: Caringheart wrote: Greetings abuayisha,With regards to what I emboldened...Isn't that what the Syrian people were trying to do ... assert their desire for a regime change?  ....and their leader Assad is the one who responded with military might....killing his own people by the thousands when they were in peaceful demonstration, and bombing their cities to pieces Indeed I believe a small group of Syrian citizens voiced concern for regime change, but what has followed in terms of armed conflict is fueled primarily from outsiders. What is being called a "civil war" in Syria, in my opinion, is a misnomer. The heavy-handedness of the Syrian government's response to protesters simply pales in comparison to bloodletting brought about through outside military interference in Syria attempting to topple a legitimate government. A government that vast majority of Syrians support.

Greetings abuayisha,

Yes, and this brings us back to the original question... the outcome for Syria.

It seems to me that the putting place of a voting system where the people could choose is the suitable outcome...
but how to do this when Assad refuses to allow it... refuses to be dislodged from his position...
and the bigger question...
how to get a leader that will treat all people fairly, and equally, without bias towards his own leanings... (in this case the shia leanings of Assad and favoritism to the shia over the sunni).
How to get a fair leader???

The 'small group of Syrian citizens voiced concern for regime change' were those people that are treated unequally by their government...
and the arms provided from outside are to assist them in their battle for equality in their nation.
The trouble I see, is that even if these were victorious, they would then be just as unfair to their fellow countrymen as the regime that they are seeking to remove.
They do not seek equality.  They seek power... the power to oppress others... to dictate and control the lives of others.... to make themselves, not equal with others, but to raise themselves in power above others.  In other words, to be the very thing which they currently fight against. 
It is sad.

Hitler oppressed the Jews.
Assad oppresses the sunni's (and others).
Should the world ignore their plight and their requests for aid?
Was it right that the world ignored the plight of the Jews for so long under the reign of Hitler?

What is most bizarre about it all, is that the qur'an teaches to fight against oppression... against oppressors.... and yet, everyone in islam seeks oppression, and to be the oppressor.  This, I believe, is because islam is the very deception of the devil... the thing that seeks to cause chaos and confusion so that in the end the creation will destroy itself... destroy one another.  The qur'an brings confusion.... and,
God (the Creator) is not the author of confusion.

The qur'an doesn't teach how to be one, and work together...
the qur'an teaches how to oppress.
It teaches in total of all the things it is against,
and teaches little of what it is for.
It is an anti-teaching, rather than a pro- teaching.



Edited by Caringheart - 13 June 2016 at 3:09pm

Tim the plumber wrote: I understand that such things were unthinkable here before about 1980 so feel free to put limits on such tolerance.

I think one of the greatest ills of contemporary modern secular societies is that no standards exist, thus tolerance, or limits are nebulous constructs.