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16:15

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asep48garut60 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote asep48garut60 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 September 2016 at 1:38am
Dear TG12345, peace be with you.

Please allow me to participate and explain about 16:15 as follows:
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"And He has cast into the earth firmly set mountains, lest it shift with you, and [made] rivers and roads, that you may be guided,"
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In my opinion, the Sahih International translation and other translations have the same meaning, it depends upon those who translate the words in the Quran, as we know that those who translating the Quran came from various tribes even various nations, they pouring words in the form of written language that are different, even there's a translation of such verse (16:15) by using the word "planted", so it's something understandable as long as it doesn't alter the true meaning that Allah has created mountains, and do not change the rules of the original readings, such as the letters arrangement of the Quran etc. And the true meaning of the 16:15 there are similarities with the meaning of 21:31, 31:10 that Allah has created the mountains and others.

Here are the functions of the mountain in science:
In the past, the mountain was known only as a block of rocks protruding from the earth. This definition was considered valid until 1835. When, Pierre Bouguer showed that the force of gravity is in the Andes mountains is smaller than what is expected for a block of large rocks, supposedly, a large block of the same type buried deep in the earth. And on the basis of this, in the past the difference of gravity for a while interpreted.

In the mid-19th century, George Everest conduct a study of differences in measurement results of gravity of the Himalaya in two different places. However, Everest failed to interpret this phenomenon and he just called it the mystery of India.

George Airy in 1865 states that all chain of mountains in the earth is a block floating in a sea of magma (ie material molten rock beneath the earth�s crust) and that all liquid materials are denser than the mountains themselves, consequently, mountains have to dive or go to in the molten material in high density to maintain the upholding of the mountains.

Geologists discovered the fact that mountains have roots that help the mountains to float and continue to be bound by the plates of the earth so it will not vibrate. And In 1948, Geologist Van Anglin stated in his book Geomorphology (on page no. 27) that's quite understood at this time that there is a root for each mountain below the earth's crust.
This fact is evidenced by the principle of hydrostatic balance of the earth as illustrated by Dutton, Geologist from the USA, in 1889. He said that the bulge in the earth sinks into the earth in accordance with the height. Moreover, after the discovery of the Earth's plates in 1969, proven and it becomes clear that the mountains contribute to maintaining the balance of all the plates. The mountain has two parts: one protrudes on the earth's crust and another sinks into underground according to its height, and one of its functions is to prevent vibration from the liquid layer underneath.

The pressure imposed by the mountains to the earth's crust with quite a long time will prevents the movement of magma and the destruction of the earth's crust. The middle layer of the earth, called the nucleus, an area which is made of materials that boil at temperatures that reached thousands of degrees. The movement in the earth's core that causes the separation portions upright position between the plates of the earth. The upright position of the mountains protecting the earth from strong shocks. Other than that, with the mountain on Earth is to strengthen the position of the earth and protect the earth from a big shock when the earth rotates on its axis and orbits.

In conjunction with 16:15 here, although there is slight differences in translating a word, it is reasonable as long as it does not change the intent of the overall meaning, but more important is to find out the meaning behind these natural phenomena because Allah created everything was not in vain, for sure there's wisdom and benefits for mankind. Let's compare the findings and opinions of the experts with the words of Allah in the Quran 21:31, 27:88 and 78:7,20 there's no significant differences.

Regards.
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Tim the plumber View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tim the plumber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 September 2016 at 1:46am
God made the roads?
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The Saint View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Saint Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 September 2016 at 2:24am
Still I don't see what gave Uthman the authority. In case of Mohamed things look clear (to you): He got the authority from God.
Since he was supposedly the last prophet, absolutely nobody - including Uthman- had the right to change or even decide on anything regarding the Quran.

Describing Uthman as an important person doesn't take this conflict away.

Hazrat Usman RA was not only the elected Khalifa, Calif to you, he was also a companion of the Prophet. As such he had the credentials, in terms of integrity and honesty required for the job he undertook. And as a matter of history he had the support of both the preceeding Kkalifas - Hazrat Abu Bakar Siddiqui RA and Hazrat Umar Farooq RA.

.but this oral transmission did not prevent deviations to develop. Obviously the transmission was not perfect and already after a very short time after Mohamed the Sanaa scriptures showed deviations. I have absolutely no reasons to assume that this "evolution" has/had stopped with Uthman.

The transmission is absolutely perfect! If at all there was an 'evolution' it was in the better understanding of the meaning of the Quran. I do not know of any deviations in the text.
Invite [all] to the Way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching;
and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote asep48garut60 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 September 2016 at 9:09pm
Dear Tim the plumber,
Sorry I just can answer your question now, due to other commitments.

Yes, God creates roads.
The Quran has explained to the humans since 14 centuries ago that Allah also create the roads. Then, can we imagine how people in ancient times walk from one place to another before humans can make artificial roads?
Scientific discoveries made by scientists show that in the mountains there are roads, which varies considerably longitudinal follow the direction of the mountain so that people don't get lost in the mountains.

Scientific Proof:
Since the early days, many people assume that 'Ad recounted in the Quran is just a legend, and the location was never found. But with the studies conducted by the experts, now people can't escape from a reality, and in the mind of mankind is only "astonishment"

Around 1990, many leading newspapers in the world are saying about the legend city in the Middle East were missing have been rediscovered.
With the discovery of the fact from Clapp, he studied various manuscripts and ancient maps in the Huntington Library, California. He found a painting of a map of the area or the lost city made by Ptolemy (Ptolomeus), a Greek geographer in the year 200 AD.
The map that was found showed an old building and many roads leading to the city. While he also received the news that NASA has done photo shoot, and in such photographs found a form that is difficult to be seen by the naked eye, but it can clearly be seen from outer space.
That such roads didn't made by human, but it's already available previously.

This fact shows that there's no meaningful difference between the verses of the Quran with science, and it also shows that the verses relating to science in the Quran to be a platform for the development of science of mankind.

"Which of the favors of your Lord do you deny?" � Quran 55:13

Such verses are written repeatedly up to 31 times. Why so many ?, Because Allah wants to test mankind the extent to which humans can use their minds.

Regards.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DavidC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 September 2016 at 7:41am
How does one determine this is an objectively factual passage and not metaphorical? The Qu'ran is often poetic and symbolic (eg 31:31).

Christian; Wesleyan M.Div.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tim the plumber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 September 2016 at 8:22am
Originally posted by asep48garut60 asep48garut60 wrote:

Dear Tim the plumber,
Sorry I just can answer your question now, due to other commitments.

Yes, God creates roads.
The Quran has explained to the humans since 14 centuries ago that Allah also create the roads. Then, can we imagine how people in ancient times walk from one place to another before humans can make artificial roads?
Scientific discoveries made by scientists show that in the mountains there are roads, which varies considerably longitudinal follow the direction of the mountain so that people don't get lost in the mountains.


1, If science had discovered anything unexpected and godly in the way roads come about the world would have heard. It would be big news.

Roads, generally, start as tracks made by people wandering around the world. Often these follow the game trails of other animals. If the sceenary changes such as if the climate changes they game paths will often change.

2, People often get lost on mountains.

3, Roads are artifical things made by humans. If there was any evidence at all to say otherwise....


Quote Scientific Proof:
Since the early days, many people assume that 'Ad recounted in the Quran is just a legend, and the location was never found. But with the studies conducted by the experts, now people can't escape from a reality, and in the mind of mankind is only "astonishment"


?

Quote Around 1990, many leading newspapers in the world are saying about the legend city in the Middle East were missing have been rediscovered.
With the discovery of the fact from Clapp, he studied various manuscripts and ancient maps in the Huntington Library, California. He found a painting of a map of the area or the lost city made by Ptolemy (Ptolomeus), a Greek geographer in the year 200 AD.
The map that was found showed an old building and many roads leading to the city. While he also received the news that NASA has done photo shoot, and in such photographs found a form that is difficult to be seen by the naked eye, but it can clearly be seen from outer space. [With the correct equipment and specialised sensors and post processing and experteese.]
That such roads didn't made by human, but it's already available previously.


Such roads were definately made by humans. Often by Royal decree. Although I'm not sure what actual roads you are talking about, any chance of a link.

Quote This fact shows that there's no meaningful difference between the verses of the Quran with science, and it also shows that the verses relating to science in the Quran to be a platform for the development of science of mankind.

"Which of the favors of your Lord do you deny?" � Quran 55:13

Such verses are written repeatedly up to 31 times. Why so many ?, Because Allah wants to test mankind the extent to which humans can use their minds.

Regards.


I deny that any road is made by magic. Sometimes a bit of rock may well form a natural road way. Chance is like that.

I deny there has ever been a world flood.

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asep48garut60 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote asep48garut60 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 September 2016 at 7:44pm
Dear DavidC, peace be with you.

Perhaps for those who often venture into the mountains they will inevitably find roads/streets to ride to the top of the mountain or down from the mountain or from one mountain to another mountain, and such streets were already available naturally.

About the streets in the days of the 'Ad, it was already more than 14 centuries ago, while the surface of the earth has undergone many changes, however, I believe that Allah will not lie with His words, and I also believe scientific's discoveries made by some experts.

Then the Quran often poetic.
Indeed, many verses in the Quran that are poetic and nice to be heard, generally � the last part of the contents of the Quran, but their meaning are true, not just poetic.

Then the Quran is often symbolic.
Yes, that's true, because Allah has told it through His Word 30:58, but not all His verses are symbolic.

About 31:31
In this verse Allah invites humans to think or ponder the wisdom behind the ships sail through the sea, Allah commanded humans to pay attention to the signs of power and His greatness.
With the sea, the ships can visit countries that are located far apart so that humans of a country will recognize humans in other countries, and not only that, humans can exchange their respective requirements they need.
That's one of wisdom why Allah created the sea for mankind, and there's a real proof about the power of Allah for those who want to think.

Regards.
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