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Tim the plumber View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Abu Loren Abu Loren wrote:

Originally posted by Tim the plumber Tim the plumber wrote:

OK, so you do participate in this real world. That would be the same real world where I live.

The same real world where there are different time zones around the world because the sun rises and sets at different times around the world.

That would not be if the earth was not a sphere. In this real world. The one you participate in.
You STILL don't get it do ya?


No I don't.

Please explain why there can be different time zones if the world is flat. How does Austrailia have night when it is day here?
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Tim the plumber View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Abu Loren Abu Loren wrote:

Originally posted by Ron Webb Ron Webb wrote:

You're saying we're "miserable sods", and yet in your previous post you described me as "happy in this world". Confused

 
Are you reallyhappy in this world? How can you be when your heart is empty. Put some 'soul food' in it and some faith as well.
Read the Qur'an with an open mind and in a language that you understand.
Originally posted by Ron Webb Ron Webb wrote:

 
None of that would be a problem for me.  My biggest problem would be that I have to love a Being who wants to torture me in Hell for eternity if I don't love Him.  That's not a kind of love I can even imagine, let alone feel.

 
If you are sincere about your 'akhira' or afterlife and you want to live in eternity in hell rather than in hell then I'm afraid that you have to obey His Laws and Commands. Do you honestly think that somebody who lies, cheat and kills should be given Paradise?
 
Originally posted by Ron Webb Ron Webb wrote:

Never mind me.  The question I'm asking whether you, Abu Loren, could choose not to believe in God.  If God Himself commanded you to stop believing in Him, could you do it?

So why do you think it's a choice for me, if it's not for you?
 
 
Yes, I can choose not to believe in God Almighty. But the consequences of that belief is hell fire.
I'd rather spent eternity in Paradise than in hell, so everybody has to work for it and earn brownie points and rewards. It's only fair isn't it? 

.
.


What guarntee do you have that the man who sold you this story was not a con artist?


Edited by Tim the plumber - 04 October 2015 at 12:07pm
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Ron Webb View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Abu Loren Abu Loren wrote:

Are you reallyhappy in this world? How can you be when your heart is empty.

Yes, I'm really happy.  No, my heart is not empty.  It is filled with a love for family, friends and humanity as a whole.

Quote If you are sincere about your 'akhira' or afterlife and you want to live in eternity in hell rather than in hell then I'm afraid that you have to obey His Laws and Commands. Do you honestly think that somebody who lies, cheat and kills should be given Paradise?

I don't lie, cheat or kill.  Yes, I think I deserve Paradise far more than many Muslims.

Quote Yes, I can choose not to believe in God Almighty.

Really?  How would you go about that?  All that (alleged) evidence for God that you see all around you -- how could you ignore it?  You could pretend it wasn't there, but you would still know.  You could claim that you don't believe, but your heart would say otherwise, wouldn't it?

Can you choose to believe that 2 + 2 = 5?

Quote But the consequences of that belief is hell fire.

But if you didn't believe in God, you wouldn't believe that either.  That may be what you tell yourself as a believer, but it wouldn't be persuasive to you as a non-believer.  It certainly doesn't persuade me.

Quote I'd rather spent eternity in Paradise than in hell, so everybody has to work for it and earn brownie points and rewards. It's only fair isn't it?

It's only fair if everyone has an equal chance.  Those who are brought up in Christian families and taught the Trinity and all sorts of other heresies, and were never exposed to Islam, never had a chance.  Is that fair?

Besides, as I'm sure you are aware, God sends astray whom He wills, and guides whom He wills. (Quran 14:4)  Is that fair?
Addeenul �Aql � Religion is intellect.
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Abu Loren View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Ron Webb Ron Webb wrote:


Yes, I'm really happy.� No, my heart is not empty.� It is filled with a love for family, friends and humanity as a whole.


Will that love help you on the Day of Judgment?

Originally posted by Ron Webb Ron Webb wrote:


I don't lie, cheat or kill.� Yes, I think I deserve Paradise far more than many Muslims.


Good. If you only utter the words "Ashadu Anla Ilaha Illallah wa Ashadu anna Muhammadan abduhu rasooluhu'.

Originally posted by Ron Webb Ron Webb wrote:


Really?� How would you go about that?� All that (alleged) evidence for God that you see all around you -- how could you ignore it?� You could pretend it wasn't there, but you would still know.� You could claim that you don't believe, but your heart would say otherwise, wouldn't it?Can you choose to believe that 2 + 2 = 5?


I've told you yes I can choose not to believe and enjoy this world and what it offers, but I know the consequences of that decision. I have free will and so have you.

Originally posted by Ron Webb Ron Webb wrote:


But if you didn't believe in God, you wouldn't believe that either.� That may be what you tell yourself as a believer, but it wouldn't be persuasive to you as a non-believer.� It certainly doesn't persuade me.


OK no problem if you are happy spending eternity in hell fire then good luck!

Originally posted by Ron Webb Ron Webb wrote:


It's only fair if everyone has an equal chance.� Those who are brought up in Christian families and taught the Trinity and all sorts of other heresies, and were never exposed to Islam, never had a chance.� Is that fair?Besides, as I'm sure you are aware, God sends astray whom He wills, and guides whom He wills. (Quran 14:4)� Is that fair?



That's difficult for me to answer because He gives Mercy to whom He Wills. I suppose that includes Christians who do not worship Jesus (Alayhi Salaam) and other people.
It's His choice who goes to heaven and who goes to hell.
La Ilaha IllAllah
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Tim the plumber View Drop Down
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Abu,

I cannot choose what I believe. That is called lying.
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Ron Webb View Drop Down
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Can you choose to believe that 2 + 2 = 5?
Addeenul �Aql � Religion is intellect.
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Abu Loren View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Tim the plumber Tim the plumber wrote:


No I don't.Please explain why there can be different time zones if the world is flat. How does Austrailia have night when it is day here?


When the sun rises it doesn't cover the whole earth but part of it. So one part is in darkness the other part in light. We call it night and day.

By the way, the sun is not a sphere like you imagine it to be, it is also flat and it points to the earth like a torch.
La Ilaha IllAllah
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Abu Loren View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Tim the plumber Tim the plumber wrote:



What guarntee do you have that the man who sold you this story was not a con artist?


When I read his life story and what he actually said, no normal human being could do that. I believe in his miracles and the revelations he received. I also believe that he was the final prophet and messenger of God Almighty.
La Ilaha IllAllah
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