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Alone in the universe

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biggerjohn View Drop Down
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    Posted: 03 April 2015 at 4:05pm

Alone in the universe?

One hundred octillion (100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000), give or take a couple thousand septillion, is our best guess at how many stars there are in the Universe. Multiply this number by the average number of planets orbiting these stars and there are very few calculators in the world that would not gag on the number.

With so many planets out there in the universe, it would seem silly to me to believe that this is the only planet where life would take hold. It also seems equally silly to think that God, the creator of all these stars and planets (as so many like myself believe), would only put life on this one relatively tiny little rock floating in space.

My point: I do not believe that we are the only intelligent life in the universe. I also do not believe we are the oldest or most advanced. Actually I believe that we are nowhere near to being the oldest and most advanced. We haven�t even traveled past our own moon� oh sure, our probes have�. Yes, we have done some experiments in space, we�ve walked on the moon�. did experiments there too. We�ve done experiments on Mars� remotely anyhow. We�ve done a little exploring� but I think there�s still just a bit more out there to see.

I do not believe it is all that much of a stretch to suppose that if there is other intelligent life out there that they too may be explorers, scientists, engineers�. creators.

There are some who balk at the theory of �intelligent design.� But given the amazing things our underdeveloped minds have been able to conceive of in our short time in the universe; combined with what other, more advanced life forms, might have achieved� I believe that the concept of intelligent design is very plausible. Indeed, I would be quite shocked if it isn�t happening somewhere in this universe.

For the record, I do not believe we were engineered by little green men from another galaxy (purple maybe J)� But, I do believe that there is a God and that he is far, far more advanced than we are; and that he indeed is the intelligence behind our existence.

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Tim the plumber View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tim the plumber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 April 2015 at 11:10am
The question then becomes; Why are the aliens not here already?

If we continue to develope as we are and become a space faring race we will spread across the galaxy. Even if this is a very slow process, say each new planet settled puts out a new colony ship every 10,000 years we will have filled the galaxy ina few tens of millions of years.

So why have the aliens not arrived here many times in the past?

There are several possible explinations;

1, God or some powerful thing is keeping us safe. Possibly this power is gardening the Earth and humanity.

2, We are the first intelligence in the galaxy. Not the universe, the numbers are just too big for that but we could be the first in this galaxy. The Earth is a fluke. It's just too good, like hitting the jackpot 10 times in a row. Humanity is even more of a fluke. No other animal in the history of Earth has gone down anything like a similar evolutionary path.

3, Perhaps just because a species gets intelligence does not mean they don't either stagnate in cultural development as many many cultures on Earth have. We were hunter gatherers for many tens of thousands of years before anybody statred agriculture and then it took 13,000 for stone tools to get replaced by metal ones. There have been lots of similar plateaus in our advancement.

Perhaps they tend to blow themselves up as we nearly did in the cold war.

4, Something else that we have not thought of so far....

I hopde I live long enough to find out some of the answer.

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Ron Webb View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ron Webb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 April 2015 at 6:39am
My money is on:

5. Interstellar travel is not practical.  My back-of the-envelope calculations say that even if there were a million habitable planets in our own Milky Way galaxy, the average distance between them would be something like 3000 light-years.  If we could travel at the speed of light (which is impossible), it would take you 3000 years at light speed to get to the nearest habitable planet.

In practice, we could probably only manage a few percent of light speed, and even that would take an enormous amount of energy and would mean hundreds of thousands of years of travel time.  That's quite a commute. Wink
Addeenul �Aql � Religion is intellect.
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Ron Webb View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ron Webb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 April 2015 at 6:50am
Originally posted by biggerjohn biggerjohn wrote:

There are some who balk at the theory of �intelligent design.� But given the amazing things our underdeveloped minds have been able to conceive of in our short time in the universe; combined with what other, more advanced life forms, might have achieved� I believe that the concept of intelligent design is very plausible. Indeed, I would be quite shocked if it isn�t happening somewhere in this universe.

I'm not sure what intelligent design has to do with this.  If anything, the assumption of an intelligent designer would make it more likely that we are alone.  After all, why design something more than once?

It's only because I believe that life arises spontaneously somehow (under conditions and/or by some process we can't currently imagine) that it makes sense to me that it would be happening all over the universe.
Addeenul �Aql � Religion is intellect.
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kiuyhyt View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kiuyhyt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 April 2015 at 11:53pm
Hi (new here)

_the simplest protein (about 150 aminate acids) cannot appear somewhere by itself (in the right place, in the right order of aminate acids)
_it would be worthless alone, and would quickly be destroyed by the environement.
_DNA (describing perfectly that 150 aminate acids protein) would not exist without proteins to take care of it, it would also be destroyed by the environement if it came into existance.

Once you see this, you see there is a God.
There would be no need for other existing life to search for, as God can create us alone, or fill the universe with life and technology to a frightening point.
i think it is enough to know that under God everything is possible, as logic itself is He's creation.

Also.
What proves to you that other people actually exist (meaning they "know" they exist), you have absolutely no proof that anything else really exists as you could speculatively be a very clever mind with a lot of imagination trapped in its own dream (but with short conscient memory).

The only being that prooves everything else is God.
I exist (i have proof of that)
My environement exists (there exists something that is not me)
So God exists (at least One being who knows he exists and who is responsible for my existence and my environement)

i'm french, so my english may be bizarre sometimes

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Tim the plumber View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tim the plumber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 April 2015 at 3:12am
Originally posted by Ron Webb Ron Webb wrote:

My money is on:

5. Interstellar travel is not practical.  My back-of the-envelope calculations say that even if there were a million habitable planets in our own Milky Way galaxy, the average distance between them would be something like 3000 light-years.  If we could travel at the speed of light (which is impossible), it would take you 3000 years at light speed to get to the nearest habitable planet.

In practice, we could probably only manage a few percent of light speed, and even that would take an enormous amount of energy and would mean hundreds of thousands of years of travel time.  That's quite a commute. Wink


Quite a commute, yes, but if the vessels in use are huge 5km diameter or more with billions of inhabitants then the question of what will they do whilst traveling is answered by carrying on with their lives.
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Tim the plumber View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tim the plumber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 April 2015 at 3:14am
Originally posted by Ron Webb Ron Webb wrote:

Originally posted by biggerjohn biggerjohn wrote:

There are some who balk at the theory of �intelligent design.� But given the amazing things our underdeveloped minds have been able to conceive of in our short time in the universe; combined with what other, more advanced life forms, might have achieved� I believe that the concept of intelligent design is very plausible. Indeed, I would be quite shocked if it isn�t happening somewhere in this universe.

I'm not sure what intelligent design has to do with this.  If anything, the assumption of an intelligent designer would make it more likely that we are alone.  After all, why design something more than once?

It's only because I believe that life arises spontaneously somehow (under conditions and/or by some process we can't currently imagine) that it makes sense to me that it would be happening all over the universe.


Try this video. I call the oil drops alive by my definition of life;

http://www.ted.com/talks/martin_hanczyc_the_line_between_life_and_not_life?language=en
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Ron Webb View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ron Webb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 April 2015 at 7:28am
Originally posted by kiuyhyt kiuyhyt wrote:

Hi (new here)

Welcome, kiuyhyt!  (I hope I'm pronouncing your name correctly. Wink)

Quote _the simplest protein (about 150 aminate acids) cannot appear somewhere by itself (in the right place, in the right order of aminate acids)
_it would be worthless alone, and would quickly be destroyed by the environement.
_DNA (describing perfectly that 150 aminate acids protein) would not exist without proteins to take care of it, it would also be destroyed by the environement if it came into existance.

Once you see this, you see there is a God.

This is the classic fallacy of argument from incredulity.  What you're saying is "I can't think of an explanation, therefore God must be the explanation." But if none of your premises even mentions God, how can the conclusion be about God?

A hundred years ago it was possible to calculate the total amount of radiant energy emitted by the sun, and to show that not even the hottest fire could produce so much energy.  So would it have been valid to say "therefore God"?  Of course not.  It just meant that we hadn't yet discovered the process of nuclear fusion.

We have no idea how life began.  But you cannot conclude God from that.  You can only conclude that we have no idea.

Quote There would be no need for other existing life to search for, as God can create us alone, or fill the universe with life and technology to a frightening point.

So which do you think it is?  Did He create us alone, or did He fill the universe with life?  Aren't you curious at all?

Quote What proves to you that other people actually exist (meaning they "know" they exist), you have absolutely no proof that anything else really exists as you could speculatively be a very clever mind with a lot of imagination trapped in its own dream (but with short conscient memory).

The only being that prooves everything else is God.
I exist (i have proof of that)
My environement exists (there exists something that is not me)
So God exists (at least One being who knows he exists and who is responsible for my existence and my environement)

But you're not proving that God exists.  You're assuming that God exists in order to prove everything else.

Quote i'm french, so my english may be bizarre sometimes

Your English is excellent -- much better than many native English speakers, in fact. Smile

---
(Edited to fix my English.Embarrassed)


Edited by Ron Webb - 06 April 2015 at 7:31am
Addeenul �Aql � Religion is intellect.
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