Alone in the universe

Ron Webb wrote: I'm not sure what intelligent design has to do with this.  If anything, the assumption of an intelligent designer would make it more likely that we are alone.  After all, why design something more than once?

 

Good question.

 

 

By the way, I like your "back-of-the-envelope" calculations earlier.

 

Always sincere.... sometimes serious,

John B

 Hi

Ron Webb wrote: This is the classic fallacy of argument from incredulity.  What you're saying is "I can't think of an explanation, therefore God must be the explanation." But if none of your premises even mentions God, how can the conclusion be about God? A hundred years ago it was possible to calculate the total amount of radiant energy emitted by the sun, and to show that not even the hottest fire could produce so much energy.  So would it have been valid to say "therefore God"?  Of course not.  It just meant that we hadn't yet discovered the process of nuclear fusion.

   As information doesn't come out of nowhere, and in this case it's simultaneous concordant information at a scale we just "begin" to understand (talking about a living cell).
   Also, information is impossible to get out of energy alone. plus, energy destroys information, you need just the right amount, especially for proteins.

Ron Webb wrote: We have no idea how life began.  But you cannot conclude God from that.  You can only conclude that we have no idea.

my own answer to that is this:
let's say we have two kind of objects: A and B
they can be assembled to form stable entities.
A are conscious of their own existence
B are not.
_if i make an entity using B i won't be conscious of it's own existence regardless of how well it could simulate intelligent life, because it will never be able to experience things itself.
_if i make an entity using A it won't be conscious as a whole, because you cannot mix consciousness (as we can't mix ours). A wouldn't process information, each part would be alive, but wouldn't do much.

What this means for me is that being intelligent and being conscious of its own existence are two seperate things. One is a computer (makable, even if not by chance), the other is unmakable. You wouldn't even know if you have A or B objects (stones could as well be alive).

that's why, my own existence prooves me there is a Creator of everything.
I'm functionally complex and i "am"

Ron Webb wrote: So which do you think it is?  Did He create us alone, or did He fill the universe with life?  Aren't you curious at all?

As i already went through the "there is a god / islam is the way / islam informations are true", i'm curious but i have enough  information (in "our" litterature) about that to kind of "see the big picture" about life around us.
But the universe is BIG, take this hadith for example (from memory): "Each one of the 7 heavens is in the next like a ring thrown in the desert of the next heaven and the last one has the same proportion towards Gods throne"
So our universe (until the limit we can't see from here) is like the arquilian galaxy from MIB 1.

Ron Webb wrote: But you're not proving that God exists.  You're assuming that God exists in order to prove everything else.

true.

Edited by kiuyhyt - 07 April 2015 at 7:23am

biggerjohn wrote: (I hope I am not presuming too much with the following) How many children do you have? Any grandchildren? I believe that God is big into family... VERY BIG into family.

Ah, well, I try not to talk too much about my family on public forums.  You'll notice that I use my real name, unlike most people.  It was a conscious decision I made many years ago that I would not hide my identity, and that I would be willing to stand by any opinions I expressed in real life.  However, that decision is not without its risks and I can't make that choice for others, including my family.

That said, the whole point of family is to stay in touch with them.  It does us little good to know that there are fellow beings somewhere out there, ten thousand light years away, if we can't even communicate with them.

Besides that, why not? Why would any intelligent being capable of designing, building, and creating not do so? In a previous thread I mentioned that I am an artist. I have had more than a few dry spells when I have produced very little work... not good times. I'm happiest when I am creative.

That's a good point.  So I guess either way, there's a good chance we're not alone.  But an even better chance we'll never know for sure.

Ron Webb wrote: biggerjohn wrote: (I hope I am not presuming too much with the following) How many children do you have? Any grandchildren? I believe that God is big into family... VERY BIG into family. Ah, well, I try not to talk too much about my family on public forums.  You'll notice that I use my real name, unlike most people.  It was a conscious decision I made many years ago that I would not hide my identity, and that I would be willing to stand by any opinions I expressed in real life.  However, that decision is not without its risks and I can't make that choice for others, including my family. That said, the whole point of family is to stay in touch with them.  It does us little good to know that there are fellow beings somewhere out there, ten thousand light years away, if we can't even communicate with them. Besides that, why not? Why would any intelligent being capable of designing, building, and creating not do so? In a previous thread I mentioned that I am an artist. I have had more than a few dry spells when I have produced very little work... not good times. I'm happiest when I am creative. That's a good point.  So I guess either way, there's a good chance we're not alone.  But an even better chance we'll never know for sure.