Plants verses animals

BiggerJohn

What are the factors or stimuli at play with regard to how �natural selection� works? My list so far consists of: environment, behavior, predators, food sources, social influence, life span, instinct, cognitive thought, population, genetic complexity (or simplicity), and learning ability.

The things you quote haven't got a lot to do with the principle of natural selection.
Take for example intelligence ( or cognitive thought/learning ability as you express it). In terms of survival these things are very costly. Our brain confiscates about 20% of our energy consumption. From a survival point of view a brain as ours is only useful if it allows us to gather more energy (food) than the (additional) consumption it requires to run.

So typical traits for enhancing the "likelihood of survival (of the own species)" are:

a) Improvements in "food collection techniques": like reaching food that was unattainable before (Giraffes) or becoming a predator/omnivore. Equally, being able to digest food that was indigestible/toxic earlier.   
b) Increased ability to escape predators (be them macroscopic like wild animals or microscopic like bacterias).
c) Increased "ability to please" a (fe-)male of the own species. This is called sexual selection.
d) Increased ability to resist or rather to adapt to outer strain (heat/cold, famines, UV-radiation, lack of oxygen in high areas etc).
e) Selection in an "artificial" context (because there is a selector favouring a certain trait) : Wild apples -> modern apple trees, Woolfs->dogs etc.
I guess there are more, but this is just to show the principle.

These criteria always apply in a given (ecological) context. Being a tree is costly in terms of minerals and carbon but it allows you to collect sun light literally on top of the others. If nobody else around grows high you have no reason to be a tree.
The main driving mechanism is in the end (local) competition for limited resources (minerals, Carbon and sun-light in this case).

In general, acquiring a new trait has a price and goes very often along with specialization and other trait(s) becoming obsolete/lost: Our anatomy (i.e the hand which evolved towards a skillful haptic "device") doesn't allow us to swing our way through the trees anymore. Or take the olm [Proteus anguinus] which adapted to caves where nutrients are scarce. It can survive for years without food but it also has eyes that don't see anymore. The whales finding food in water and having residues of legs that are of no use anymore and so on.. (btw. Why should a intelligent designer hide legs in the whales ?)


Hope this helps: Airmano

Edited by airmano - 30 March 2015 at 12:03am

I think that you and I are closer to one another than you might suppose.

Your list

a) Improvements in "food collection techniques"

b) Increased ability to escape predators

c) Increased "ability to please" a (fe-)male of the own species. This is called sexual selection.

d) Increased ability to resist or rather to adapt to outer strain (heat/cold, famines, UV-radiation, lack of oxygen in high areas etc).

e) Selection in an "artificial" context (because there is a selector favoring a certain trait) : Wild apples -> modern apple trees, Wolfs->dogs etc.

My original list:

1) Environment - This covers a lot: underwater, tropic, arid, or mountainous terrain. Also, large or small numbers of species/predators competing, etc., all of these relate to environmental conditions which can greatly impact development. (Relative to points D & E)

2) Behavior - This too encompasses much. Essentially it is all about responses and actions to environment, threats, needs, and more. (Relative to point C) 

3) Predators � Eat or be eaten, fight or flight, this is all about either being a predator or escaping/fighting one. (Relative to point B)

4) Food sources � Variety, abundance (or lack thereof) ease or difficulty gathering. (Relative to points A, D, and E)

5) Social influence � solitary verses group survival. Bee hives, ant colonies, dolphin and whale pods, lion prides � species grouped together with common interests and common aims have numerous advantages. (Relative to points A, B, C, D, E)

6) Life span � Shorter life spans require a robust reproductive method in order to survive. (Relative to points D & E)

7) Instinct � This one is a bit hard to define. Basically many life forms demonstrate behaviors that appear to be �natural� (not taught or learned). (Relative to point B)

8) Cognitive thought � The ability to make decisions, think, choose, respond, problem solve, etc. (Relative to points A, B, C, & D)

9) Population � Strength in numbers. Especially among perceptively weaker organisms (fish, insects, rodents, smaller mammals, etc.) Large numbers increase their chances of survival. Too high of a population poses problems as well. (Relative to points B, D, & E)

10) Genetic complexity (simplicity) � The simpler the organism the quicker it is likely to change, adapt, reproduce, or evolve. When it comes to plant life, it doesn�t get simpler than Green Algae and Grass; two organisms that are extremely old, reproduce quickly, and are very capable of enduring for a long time to come. (Relative to point C)

11) Reproductive method (this item had been added the next day, presumably after you had submitted your response) � From single cell organisms splitting to seeds, eggs, and sexual reproduction, each method has its own advantages. (Relative to points C & E)

12) Learning ability � This one ties heavily into Behavior, social influence, and cognitive thought. The ability to learn, and the ability to pass on knowledge cannot be overrated.  (Relative to points A & B)

 

This list is still very much a work in progress; and there is much more I wish to say regarding behavior, social influence, cognitive thought, and learning ability. Hopefully I will be able to get to it by Friday.

 

Thank you again for your response.

 

Always sincere�. sometimes serious,

John B

We have the rather naive idea about the peace loving world of plants. In reality there is a merciless battle going on in every square (cubic) meter of soil with plants intoxicating each other, sending parasites to the neighbour, stealing water and nutrients from the other and chemical communication systems between trees (of the same species) to warn against invaders (bugs) and so on. May be this Web Page gives you an idea.

Now coming to "intelligent design". The question is where do you stop ? Does god fiddle around with our DNA ? Is he deliberately killing certain species to make them disappear ? If yes - how? And worse: why ?
Or is he just the inventor of rules and now everything runs such as the vicious atheists claim ?


Airmano

Edited by airmano - 07 April 2015 at 9:27am

This forum is about plant and animals, this is a great fact that animals and plants both are the essential species for maintaining the balance of the environment.