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Flat Earth and the Geocentric Universe
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Abu Loren View Drop Down
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Points: 1646 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Abu Loren Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 June 2014 at 2:54am
Originally posted by airmano airmano wrote:

The real reason is that (almost) all celestial bodies are tied to a sun (planets) or to planets themselves (moons) - simply by gravitation. Our earth is not floating around freely (in the universe) either, otherwise I can assure you that it would get very cold very quickly - even at your place.
What you say is however not completely out of any logic: At the beginning of our solar system the earth (and other planets) were indeed heavily bombarded by comets. Over the billions of years of existence (of our solar system) most of these object have been "absorbed" so that there are not many left anymore. The motion and gravitational pull of the planets (and the sun) act(ed) like gigantic vacuum cleaners.
The planets of our solar system are tied to their respective orbits (according to the laws of physics which we know very precisely) and they are separated well enough to never collide with each other. Again this separation evolved over time: one thinks that our moon was created after a collision between our old earth and a small planet (or big comet). Again almost all objects on a (potential) collision course have been weeded out over the billions of years.

Obviously you can still say "Allah made it [in the end]" - but you can not deny that modern science delivers a much clearer picture on how our solar system evolved than the Quran ever did (and will).


Airmano


Spoken like true student of the Science text books.

It's not your fault, it's a generational thing.

Whoever decided to implement the current list of Science books into the school/college/uni curriculum it has been taught from fathers to sons for many generations saying that it is Science fact when it is a load of garbage. For example, how do they know that the Sun is billions of miles away? Have they taken a ruler or a tape measure and measured the distance? No.

I find it easier to believe the other side of the argument that the sun and moon are not millions of miles away and that they are not gigantic space entities but what we see when we look up is the actual of the Sun and Moon.

I can theorize that once we leave the earth orbit the outer space is totally black because the Sun only give light to the earth. It is described as a lamp in the Qur'an. Even non Muslims are now coming to this idea. Seach Youtube. :)
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airmano View Drop Down
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Points: 884 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote airmano Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 June 2014 at 3:31am
Abu Loren:
Quote the Sun only give light to the earth. It is described as a lamp in the Qur'an. Even non Muslims are now coming to this idea. Search Youtube. :)

No, I won't search youtube for obviously pointless claims. B.T.W. your religious mate (Quranexplorer) takes exactly the "Lamp" statement as a "Scientific miracle of the Quran",
thus accepting implicitly the knowledge we have about the sun today. One of you two must obviously be wrong, although you both base your reasoning on the Quran.

Before we argue any further: I think I have to check on how far you are willing to follow any reasoning (outside the Quran).
If you take a car to drive from point A to point B (Distance D between the two), at a constant speed C would you agree that the time t it takes from A to be is:
t = D/C ? In words: The time it takes to go from A to B is proportional to the distance D (constant speed provided) or expressed in a less mathematical way: "The further away the longer it takes" or, reformulated: "The longer it takes the longer the distance" ? Can you agree on this statement ?

Last not least:
Quote I find it easier to believe the other side of the argument that the sun and moon are not millions of miles away and that they are not gigantic space entities but what we see when we look up is the actual of the Sun and Moon.
This is actually a common reasoning I find on the muslim side. However, the "truth" does not arise from things that are "easier to believe" neither from the idea of finding "more comfort" in a certain view of the world. The only objective way we have to decide on what is right or wrong is observation and measurement. Your behavior resembles kids closing their eyes hoping that they can't be seen this way.


Airmano

Edited by airmano - 20 June 2014 at 8:22am
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Ron Webb View Drop Down
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Points: 2467 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ron Webb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 June 2014 at 5:54am

Originally posted by Abu Loren Abu Loren wrote:

Whoever decided to implement the current list of Science books into the school/college/uni curriculum it has been taught from fathers to sons for many generations saying that it is Science fact when it is a load of garbage. For example, how do they know that the Sun is billions of miles away? Have they taken a ruler or a tape measure and measured the distance? No.

That's actually a great question.  Nowadays we use radar -- not to measure the sun directly, since the surface of the sun doesn't reflect radar signals very well.  Instead, we can measure the distance to Venus to within a few meters, and simple trigonometry to calculate the distance to the sun from that measurement.

But we've had fairly accurate measurements of the distance to the sun and the planets since long before the invention of radar.  The original race to measure the absolute size of the solar system is one of the most exciting stories in the history of science.  If you're interested, just Google "transit of Venus", or read the Wikipedia article.

That's if you're interested; but I don't don't think you really are.  You're just trolling, aren't you?  I don't think you're even reading my responses.
Addeenul �Aql � Religion is intellect.
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Abu Loren View Drop Down
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I don't know if anybody remembers this but about ten or so years Richard Branson and Virgin Atlantic were developing a 'space plane' in which it will take passeners to space and wait there until the earth rotates and comes to you so that the space craft does not have to move. His intention was for long haul travel say from UK to Australia and far Asia.

I think why this venture didn't materialise is that they found out that the eart does NOT spin or somebody shut them up (like the government and/or men in black).
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Ron Webb View Drop Down
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Virgin Galactic is expected to begin flights by the end of this year, but nobody ever said that it would simply wait in space for the earth to rotate.  That is sheer nonsense.   The energy required to hover for hours above the earth's atmosphere would be enormous.  It would be much cheaper and much faster just to fly there in an ordinary airplane.
Addeenul �Aql � Religion is intellect.
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Abu Loren View Drop Down
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Points: 1646 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Abu Loren Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 June 2014 at 3:47am
Originally posted by airmano airmano wrote:

Abu Loren:
Quote the Sun only give light to the earth. It is described as a lamp in the Qur'an. Even non Muslims are now coming to this idea. Search Youtube. :)

No, I won't search youtube for obviously pointless claims. B.T.W. your religious mate (Quranexplorer) takes exactly the "Lamp" statement as a "Scientific miracle of the Quran",
thus accepting implicitly the knowledge we have about the sun today. One of you two must obviously be wrong, although you both base your reasoning on the Quran.

Before we argue any further: I think I have to check on how far you are willing to follow any reasoning (outside the Quran).
If you take a car to drive from point A to point B (Distance D between the two), at a constant speed C would you agree that the time t it takes from A to be is:
t = D/C ? In words: The time it takes to go from A to B is proportional to the distance D (constant speed provided) or expressed in a less mathematical way: "The further away the longer it takes" or, reformulated: "The longer it takes the longer the distance" ? Can you agree on this statement ?

Last not least:
Quote I find it easier to believe the other side of the argument that the sun and moon are not millions of miles away and that they are not gigantic space entities but what we see when we look up is the actual of the Sun and Moon.
This is actually a common reasoning I find on the muslim side. However, the "truth" does not arise from things that are "easier to believe" neither from the idea of finding "more comfort" in a certain view of the world. The only objective way we have to decide on what is right or wrong is observation and measurement. Your behavior resembles kids closing their eyes hoping that they can't be seen this way.


Airmano


I don't see your point. The Sun IS a Scientific miracle of the Qur'an. It is not powered by nuclear fission or fusion or any such nonsense.

Explain this to me.

The time it takes for a flight from Sydney, Australia to London, England is exactly the same as a return flight.

Surely if the earth is rotating one of those journey's should be shorter?
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airmano View Drop Down
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Points: 884 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote airmano Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 June 2014 at 4:09am
Abu Loren
Quote Explain this to me.
With pleasure, but I need some indications, that you are also willing to follow.
So, could you please first answer my t = D/C question ?

Regards: Airmano


Ps: My posts take typically 1-3 days to get accepted by the moderator. So you have to be patient with (the speed of) my replies.

Edited by airmano - 22 June 2014 at 8:35am
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Ron Webb View Drop Down
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Points: 2467 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ron Webb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 June 2014 at 8:03am
Originally posted by Abu Loren Abu Loren wrote:

I don't see your point. The Sun IS a Scientific miracle of the Qur'an. It is not powered by nuclear fission or fusion or any such nonsense.

"Scientific miracle" is an oxymoron, a self-contradiction.  If the sun is not powered by fusion then where are all those solar neutrinos coming from?

Quote Explain this to me.

The time it takes for a flight from Sydney, Australia to London, England is exactly the same as a return flight.

Surely if the earth is rotating one of those journey's should be shorter?

Shorter relative to what?  Not relative to the earth, which is how we normally measure things.

The time it takes to walk from the front of the plane to the back is exactly the same as the time to walk from the back to the front.

Surely if the plane is moving one of those journeys should be shorter?
Addeenul �Aql � Religion is intellect.
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