Questions about Ramadan fast

TG12345 wrote: Also, another obvious problem would with the Quran's instruction to eat and drink the night before the fast, until the sun can be seen. There will be no night before Ramadan starts in Inuvik this year. The last night there this year was on May 24th. The sun has been up for the past 2 weeks, and will be up until July 20th.   Why did the Quran's author (who allegedly inspired Muhammad) not give exemptions or special instructions to Muslims living up north? Was he unaware that in some parts of the word, the sun does not set for weeks at a time? Or that Muslims will one day be living in Inuvik? Surely he didn't intend for them to die of dehydration. The Quran and hadiths teach that suicide is illegal. Yet if Muslims living far up north were to follow what the Quran teaches, they would be committing suicide.

The answer to your questions are that those Muslims are to follow the Mecca time line, meaning to start and stop the fast according to the Meccan time.

I understand where you are coming from, however, the Qur'an is not specific about these things it is the Prophet (SalAllahu Alayhi Wa Salaam0 who explains everything in detail and giving us comprehensive instructions in what to do.

If you are asking why Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala and the Prophet (SalAllahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) left out the Muslims living in the Arctic Circle then you're reasoning is in question. The Qur'an nor the Hadiths give any specific detalis of any country in how to go about fasting. Human logic says that people living in these areas will work out how many hours they need to fast and not go about committing mass suicide which is a great sin in Islam.

As I've suspected your st**idity had lead to you to this. I knew I was expecting something really st**id from you.


Edited by Abu Loren - 08 June 2014 at 3:36am

TG12345 wrote: Also, another obvious problem would with the Quran's instruction to eat and drink the night before the fast, until the sun can be seen. There will be no night before Ramadan starts in Inuvik this year. The last night there this year was on May 24th. The sun has been up for the past 2 weeks, and will be up until July 20th.   Why did the Quran's author (who allegedly inspired Muhammad) not give exemptions or special instructions to Muslims living up north? Was he unaware that in some parts of the word, the sun does not set for weeks at a time? Or that Muslims will one day be living in Inuvik? Surely he didn't intend for them to die of dehydration. The Quran and hadiths teach that suicide is illegal. Yet if Muslims living far up north were to follow what the Quran teaches, they would be committing suicide.

Abu Loren wrote: The answer to your questions are that those Muslims are to follow the Mecca time line, meaning to start and stop the fast according to the Meccan time.

Where does the Quran or Muhammad say that Muslims are to fast according to Mecca time?

The Quran clearly says the fast is to begin when the white thread of dawn becomes distinct to them from the black thread of night.

2:187

It has been made permissible for you the night preceding fasting to go to your wives [for sexual relations]. They are clothing for you and you are clothing for them. Allah knows that you used to deceive yourselves, so He accepted your repentance and forgave you. So now, have relations with them and seek that which Allah has decreed for you. And eat and drink until the white thread of dawn becomes distinct to you from the black thread [of night]. Then complete the fast until the sunset. And do not have relations with them as long as you are staying for worship in the mosques. These are the limits [set by] Allah , so do not approach them. Thus does Allah make clear His ordinances to the people that they may become righteous.

Muhammad clarified this by saying the fast is to begin when they can see the difference between night and dawn.

Abu Loren wrote: I understand where you are coming from, however, the Qur'an is not specific about these things it is the Prophet (SalAllahu Alayhi Wa Salaam0 who explains everything in detail and giving us comprehensive instructions in what to do.

Yet both the Quran and Muhammad were specific enough to mention the sick, elderly, pregnant and nursing and menstruating women, and the travelers. It's not like exemptions weren't given.

Abu Loren wrote: If you are asking why Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala and the Prophet (SalAllahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) left out the Muslims living in the Arctic Circle then you're reasoning is in question. The Qur'an nor the Hadiths give any specific detalis of any country in how to go about fasting.

Yet the Quran tells "you who have believed" that fasting is decreed on them, and then it goes into details about how to fast, along with those who are exempted.

Are you saying that Muslims in Inuvik are not those who have believed?

2:183-187

O you who have believed, decreed upon you is fasting as it was decreed upon those before you that you may become righteous -

[Fasting for] a limited number of days. So whoever among you is ill or on a journey [during them] - then an equal number of days [are to be made up]. And upon those who are able [to fast, but with hardship] - a ransom [as substitute] of feeding a poor person [each day]. And whoever volunteers excess - it is better for him. But to fast is best for you, if you only knew.

The month of Ramadhan [is that] in which was revealed the Qur'an, a guidance for the people and clear proofs of guidance and criterion. So whoever sights [the new moon of] the month, let him fast it; and whoever is ill or on a journey - then an equal number of other days. Allah intends for you ease and does not intend for you hardship and [wants] for you to complete the period and to glorify Allah for that [to] which He has guided you; and perhaps you will be grateful.

And when My servants ask you, [O Muhammad], concerning Me - indeed I am near. I respond to the invocation of the supplicant when he calls upon Me. So let them respond to Me [by obedience] and believe in Me that they may be [rightly] guided.

It has been made permissible for you the night preceding fasting to go to your wives [for sexual relations]. They are clothing for you and you are clothing for them. Allah knows that you used to deceive yourselves, so He accepted your repentance and forgave you. So now, have relations with them and seek that which Allah has decreed for you. And eat and drink until the white thread of dawn becomes distinct to you from the black thread [of night]. Then complete the fast until the sunset. And do not have relations with them as long as you are staying for worship in the mosques. These are the limits [set by] Allah , so do not approach them. Thus does Allah make clear His ordinances to the people that they may become righteous.

Abu Loren wrote:  Human logic says that people living in these areas will work out how many hours they need to fast and not go about committing mass suicide which is a great sin in Islam.

Then you are saying that human logic is superior to the Quran and Muhammad's teachings.

Obviously, in order for a Muslim in Inuvik to not die during Ramadan, he or she will need to alter some of what the Quran says.

Neither the Quran's author or Muhammad thought far ahead to realize- or knew- that in some parts of the world, meeting the Ramadan fasting requirements is impossible. So the people living there have to change the instructions that are in the Quran.


You said that Muslims in Inuvik should fast according to the time in Mecca.

Not all Muslims in Inuvik and other similar parts of the world fast according to Mecca time. Some also fast according to the time in the nearest locality. There are two different methods, so in other words, there is a disagreement over how to uphold the fast.

From Rovaniemi, a town in northern Finland.

CP  |  By David Mac Dougall, The Associated Press Posted: 07/24/2012 7:32 am Updated: 07/24/2012 9:38 am

ROVANIEMI, Finland - How do you observe dawn-to-dusk fasting when there is neither dawn nor dusk?

It's a question facing a small but growing number of Muslims celebrating the holy month of Ramadan on the northern tip of Europe, where the the sun barely dips below the horizon at this time of year.

In Rovaniemi, a northern Finland town that straddles the Arctic Circle at 66 degrees north, the sun rises around 3:20 a.m. and sets about 11:20pm. That means Muslims who observe Ramadan could be required to go without food or drink for 20 hours.

In a few years, Ramadan will begin even closer to the summer solstice in late June, when the sun doesn't set at all.

"We have to use common sense," said Mahmoud Said, 27, who came to Finnish Lapland from Kenya three years ago.

To Said, that means following the fasting hours of the nearest Muslim country: Turkey.

"It involves 14 or 15 hours of fasting which is okay, it's not bad," said Said, who works for a non-governmental organization helping immigrants settle in the area. He estimates there are a little over 100 Muslims in Rovaniemi, mainly from Iraq, Somalia and Afghanistan.

There is no unanimity on how to deal with the issue, which is becoming more pressing as more Muslim immigrants find their way to sparsely inhabited areas near the Arctic.

In Alaska, the Islamic Community Center of Anchorage, "after consultation with scholars," advises Muslims to follow the fasting hours of Mecca, Islam's holiest city.

The Dublin-based European Council for Fatwa and Research, however, said Muslims need to follow the local sunrise and sunset, even up north.

"The debate on how to do this in the north has been on going on for a few years," said Omar Mustafa, the chairman of the Islamic Association of Sweden. "We fast according to the sun. As long as it is possible to tell dusk from dawn. This applies to 90 per cent of Sweden's Muslims."

The few Muslims who live so far north that they are awash in 24-hour daylight should follow the daylight hours the closest city in Sweden where you can tell dawn from dusk, he said, noting that it's permitted to break the fast for health reasons.

Kaltouma Abakar and her extended family of nine relatives came to Finland from Sudan's Darfur region four years ago. She opts to observe the local Lapland sunrise and sunset times before breaking the fast in her downtown Rovaniemi apartment.

Kaltouma explains that she gets up early and works until the afternoon, then starts cooking the family's iftar meal around 5 p.m.

"The time of Ramadan fasting is very long, and breaking the fast can be around 11:30 in the evening. The time you're supposed to eat your breakfast is 2 o'clock in the morning," the 31-year old said.

In the kitchen, Kaltouma's two daughters � aged 11 and 6 � help prepare the food. They fry chicken and pastries filled with tuna in scalding hot oil. A pot of rice simmers on the stove while one girl kneads cornmeal dough which they'll dip into a chicken broth and eat with their fingers � traditional Sudanese style � a few hours later.

Apart from the late sunset times, Kaltouma said the lack of "Muslim food" locally in Rovaniemi can be a challenge. She sometimes has to wait several days for halal meat and other traditional ingredients to come from the larger cities of Oulu, or Helsinki in the south.

Even though, technically, there is nightfall in Rovaniemi at this time of year, there is no true darkness. Instead, there'sdn a grey gloaming with occasional dappled rays of sun reaching over the northern horizon, giving the city a mystical quality even in the supposed dead of night.

The dates of Ramadan change according to the lunar calendar, moving back 11 days each year. That means that by 2015 there will be no sunset for a month when Ramadan falls closer to midsummer.

Still, Kaltouma says "there is going to be at least 10 minutes for us to break the fast."

She said there is one positive aspect of observing long fasting hours in the Arctic during Ramadan: the cool temperatures.

"Unlike Africa, here in Finland you don't get thirsty often. No matter how long you fast, you don't get the urge for water."

___

Associated Press writer Karl Ritter in Stockholm contributed to this report.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/07/24/muslims-in-arctic-look-fo_n_1697528.html

In the event of disagrement between Muslims, 4:59 however says the following:

O you who have believed, obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority among you. And if you disagree over anything, refer it to Allah and the Messenger, if you should believe in Allah and the Last Day. That is the best [way] and best in result.

According to the Quran and hadiths, neither God or Muhammad stated anything about fasting according to the time in the nearest locality. However, they state that the fasting starts when a Muslim can see dawn replacing the night.

According to Muhammad and the Quran's author, Muslims up north are to fast from when they see dawn to when they see night. To do this would be to commit suicide. So they are forced to change the instructions laid out by both the Quran's author and Muhammad.

As an aside, let me say I am glad that Muslims in Inuvik are not committing mass suicide, but instead are choosing to alter some of what the Quran teaches.

Abu Loren wrote: As I've suspected your st**idity had lead to you to this. I knew I was expecting something really st**id from you.

Back to the insults? I think a lot of your arguments against Christianity and some of your most recent statements about the earth are ridiculous, but I don't around insulting you. Are you trying to start another flame war?

From the very beginning of your membership here TG12345 on this forum you have been asking stoopid questions without any reasoning or human logic.

As Al-Saadiqeen21 asked, how the heck are you a teacher? What the heck are you teaching those kids?

Run away? Don't make me laugh.

I've answered your questions and if you are stoopid to understand it then well I can't do anything about that. Sorry.