Translating the Untranslatable

Auzubillahi minash shaitan ir rajeem,

Bismillah ir rahman ir rahim,

Walaikum assallam wa rahamatullah wa barkatuhu,

rami wrote: Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem assalamu alaikum From Ibn Kathir's work on the subject, greater signs of the Hour. � The destruction of the Ka'bah and the recovery of its treasure. � The rising of the sun from the west. � The emergence of the Beast from the earth. � The smoke. � A wind will take the souls of the believers. � The Qur'aan will be taken up into heaven. � A fire will drive the people to their last gathering place. � The Trumpet will be sounded: at the first sound everyone will   feelterror; at the second sound all will be struck down; at the last sound all will be resurrected. i was thinking of this when i said the above. Not just the Quran as a book will be taken up but any letter of it in any book it will also be erased from the minds of men they will go to sleep knowing it and wake up knowing nothing. At that time it will be sufficient for them to say allah allah and the hour will not come as long as allah allah is still being said on earth.

The Quran opens with seven verses which are a dua, taught to us by allah,  made to allah.

If we read the tafsir of this dua, scholars have said that the entire Quran from surah baqrah, till the end, is a response of this dua ....

We have a verse in this which reads "ahdinas siratal mustaqeem" ie guide me to the straight path.

There have been many lost ummah which had people amongst them who reached to the point in spirituality where they recognised the essense of allah, and said ahdinas siratal mustaqeem. However not always they knew what to do beyond this - We muslims know because we have been given a response to this in form of the Quran.

Before the letters of the Quran are erased, the souls of the believers will be taken away. Those who are left behind, some among them will know allah - some hadith say they will know kalima tayyiba, and if asked what this is they will say, we heard our forefathers say this so we say it - but they will not have any proper guidance. Knowledge as such will be taken away in those times. The era of Islam will be over, and qiyamah will be approaching fast.  There cannot be a relevance of any book on Islam in those times, as people of those times will not recognise it thru their hearts.

Maa salaama.

Auzubillahi minash shaitan ir rajeem,

Bimsillah ir rahman ir rahim,

You said:

the exact words are "if all the books of islam were to disapear", i include the Quran in this.

Since I had never thought of Quran being included in this claim of scholars, your comment had created a doubt in my own understanding (of the claim).   I don�t think clearing doubts is a waste, so that is what I wanted to do.

I don�t know exactly why they did not intend to include the Quran, but there is a promise in the Quran itself that it will always be preserved for the believers � unlike other holy books that came before it.  Events preceeding the Qiyamah, as we know them confirm this. Since before the disappearance of the Quran, there will not be any believers on earth.

I also do not think the claim of scholars for the Ihya extends till a time in future when there is nobody to follow Islam as it has been intended in the Quran and sunnah. This claim is only till that time when people study Islam, understand it and want to follow it - or so I presume.

The time which you are talking about, when the Quran will eventually disappear,  I have not come across anything regarding people being muslims or wanting to follow Islam then. Therefore how much the level of guidance in any book on the deen will mean in those times is a question.

And mind you, I was not talking point blank about Quran disappearing or not disappearing. I was talking about the Quran for the believers, in the time frame when it is intented to be there for them. And I was talking about the Ihya in the same time frame. Perhaps you did not understand this from my former comments, but they were not meant to fuss - big or small.

Maa salaama