Where is the Evidence?

Caringheart wrote: You say, you do not find 'the quality of the messages in the Qur'an contradicting', and I find them entirely contradicting...

It seems to be common for people with your or similar background to say  view the Qur'an as "entirely contradicting". If you don't agree with the Qur'an, or if you don't agree with Islam - that is one thing, but to say that the Qur'an is "entirely contradicting" is just an untrue statement you allow yourself to utter because you are not educated enough to discover how wrong it is.

So this is the chalenge:

We have to keep this simple enough to follow, so lets just start at the beginning of the bible, a story that everybody know very well.

Genesis, the creation of the world, man etc. The same story is in the Qur'an. Show me how that story contains contradictions in the Qur'an.

I am so tired of people just making a claim and not having a clue... so prove your statement of for ever hold your tong about this topic.

solitair wrote: Caringheart wrote: a)The qur'an is not complete.  b)If you read the qur'an, you see clearly that it is not the same story.  c)There are similarities, but there are glaring differences.  d)The qur'an contains some of the Truth, but not all. b) I read the que'an - and i see clearly the opposite of what you are telling me, that it is the same story - and i see clearly that the differences are all the parts of the bible that does not appear logical. What does that mean ? That Muslims corrupted the bible ? Or does it mean that they did not corrupt Qur'an. d) I have no idea what the truth is - i am not chirstian and i am not a muslim. I am simply having an objective look at the two books, and there  is no way that all of the bible is all written by the same person / God. Some stuff in between - really all over the place - seem to be written by someone completely different from the main author.  The quality of the messages are just all of a sudden completely contradicting... and that is what you can not find in the Qur'an.

Greetings solitair,

I try not to belabor every point but only the ones that most stand out to me.  In this instance...

Indeed the Judeo-Christian scriptures have many authors.  The Qur'an would have one voice because it was revealed by only one person.

You say, you do not find 'the quality of the messages in the Qur'an contradicting', and I find them entirely contradicting... and I find this all the more concerning because of the fact that they do come from the mouth of one person, who claims to speak with the voice of the Creator.

I find the message of Yshwe(known as Jesus) to be cohesive and in keeping with earlier revelations.

Salaam and blessings,
Caringheart



Edited by Caringheart - 07 March 2014 at 4:52pm

Caringheart wrote: a)The qur'an is not complete.  b)If you read the qur'an, you see clearly that it is not the same story.  c)There are similarities, but there are glaring differences.  d)The qur'an contains some of the Truth, but not all.

a) The qur'an is complete - by complete we can not talk pages of text, but the actual content explained. The messages, that the God from the Qur'an wants us to receive - is all in there without any holes in the logic like you find in the bible. The messages God from the Bible wants to give us, seem to have many peaces missing, and some are simply contradicting. If you don't agree with this, you have not read eather books properly.

b) I read the que'an - and i see clearly the opposite of what you are telling me, that it is the same story - and i see clearly that the differences are all the parts of the bible that does not appear logical. What does that mean ? That Muslims corrupted the bible ? Or does it mean that they did not corrupt Qur'an.

c) Yes - there are glaring differences, and those are the parts of the Bible that does not make much sense. Those are the parts of the bible that for example blame the woman for the fall of man, the stuff that is man made to control people trough religion. Someone inserted this blame on woman, to have a more obedient wife. It sure was not God that put that stuff in the bible, because God is extremely clear on his views of the woman.

d) I have no idea what the truth is - i am not chirstian and i am not a muslim. I am simply having an objective look at the two books, and there  is no way that all of the bible is all written by the same person / God.

Some stuff in between - really all over the place - seem to be written by someone completely different from the main author.  The quality of the messages are just all of a sudden completely contradicting... and that is what you can not find in the Qur'an. 

Now I think there are two main reasons for this:

1) The Qur'an is written in Arabic, a language that stil is in use, no need for all the translations the bible has gone trough.
2) The Qur'an had the material the religious leaders wanted from the beginning. In other words no need for a change or rewrite.







Edited by solitair - 05 March 2014 at 11:34pm

neil wrote: For years and years, I have heard claims from Islam that the Bible is corrupted. NOT ONCE have I seen one shred of evidence to persuade me of this claim. Who can dispel my view that corruption claims are merely Islam's way of trying to prove, conveniently for themselves, that the Quran harmonizes with the Bible when it obviously doesn't.

If you have read the Qur'an and the Bible, you realize that it is the same story. The main differences are that the Bible stops after Jesus. The Qur'an contains the same story as the Bible, but is has the next chapter as well.

One of many interesting theorys is that Paul the Apostle (original name Saul of Tarsus) that started up many churches after the death of Jesus, is the one starting this corruption of the Bible. He lived 500 years before the Qur'an was written.

Now in year 570, a man by the name Muhammed ign Adb Allah, was born. He continued where the Bible ended, and the interesting part is that everything from this story that you find in the bible was written down in Arabic  - where the name of the book is the Holy Qur'an. It has everything, except all the strange contradictions you find in the Bible.

This is in fact a very easy question. You can just start at the beginning of the Bible, and put the Qur'an next to it, and open it also in the beginning. Then you start to compare.

In the beginning - there was no light... and so on.

When the story comes to Adam and Eve in paradise, you will notice important diferences in the two books when it comes to how Adam and Eve fell in to sin or what ever you want to call it.

Bible blames it on the woman, Qur'an does not. Bible said a snake (now we all know woman are afraid of snakes) came to the woman with seduction ?? what ?? If anything the woman would have ran away screaming ...

My point ? And if i may add - im not a muslim - the Qur'an shows you a version that does not have conflicting logic. But the Bible has conflicting logic all the way through.

Now don't just talk about it - if you really want to know, than do what i said - and you will see for yourself.

The reason for these big differences are that Qur'an today is still in its original form, in its original language - a language that still exist in wide use.

The bible have been translated thousands of times, where there is no original versions at all. Just bits and peaces here and there, that nobody really can verify.

You can not find more than one version of the Qur'an, but you sure can find many versions of the Bible.

Example: I tell you today, you are going to come with me to paradise.

This is what Jehova Withneses say Jesus said to the robber hanging next to him on the cross.

Catholic Churce: I tell you, today you are going to come with me to paradise.

So one is saying that the robber is coming with Jesus TODAY, and the the other is telling it TODAY that one day he is comming to paradise. So when is this robber going to paradise ? Today  or in a thousand years ? Bible have conflicting answers depending on the version you read.

Big differences, but  you don't find these if you study the Qur'an, only the bible have these contradictions all over the place...

I can go on and show you thousands of examples where the bible is contradicting itself, but i think that if you really want to know, the best thing is to do what i say. Compare the Qur'an and the Bible, and you will see the complete story. 

This Muslims believe that God had to use one more prophet, to get the Book written properly. And we see today that the bible can not did not really work out, as it can not really be a book from God at all by my standard. For that is is just to self contradicting.

If you want to know what the bible was meant to say, you have to peace it back together. The only way to do that is to use the Qur'an for a guideline, and you will find where the Bible is messed up from all the years of translation and manipulation.


Best of luck -



Edited by solitair - 04 March 2014 at 3:18am