In Matthew chapter 17 verses 21 is missing from th

Hi iec,

Quote from Post 1:
In Matthew chapter 17 verses 21 is missing from the NIV and RSV.Why?????

Mark 16: 9, 20 all removed From the NIV and the RSV.WHY.

Response: --- There is a footnote in the NKJ that says verse 21 is not included in some. --- Two simple reasons are: --- Because there were different Greek Manuscripts that were studied and, the King James, and New King James, have included all of the verses with a footnote concerning them --- in this way, it is up to the reader to read it, or not read it, --- But it had to be in a Greek Manuscript in order to be numbered and recorded.   

However, it is good to look at the context and see that this was speaking of casting out evil Spirits and healing in Matthew 17:
14 And when they had come to the multitude, a man came to Him, kneeling down to Him and saying,
15 �Lord, have mercy on my son, for he is an epileptic and suffers severely; for he often falls into the fire and often into the water.
16 So I brought him to Your disciples, but they could not cure him.�
17 Then Jesus answered and said, �O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? How long shall I bear with you? Bring him here to Me.�
18 And Jesus rebuked the demon, and it came out of him; and the child was cured from that very hour.
19 Then the disciples came to Jesus privately and said, �Why could we not cast it out?�
20 So Jesus said to them, �Because of your unbelief; for assuredly, I say to you, if you have faith as a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, �Move from here to there,� and it will move; and nothing will be impossible for you.
21 However, this kind does not go out except by prayer and fasting.�

--- Some may not understand the importance of prayer and fasting in dedication to God, to be involved in healing and deliverance, as in this case, so may have copied a Manuscript, but left that verse off. --- However,this verse is also in Mark 9:29 concerning the same healing.

--- See the important lesson that is learned about true Faith, accompanied with prayer and fasting?

Next, Mark 16:9-20.

To continue with Mark 16:9-20:

Response: --- In the New King James it again gives a footnote which says:
Quote: Verses 9-20 are bracketed in some Versions as not original. They are lacking in Codex Siniaticus, and Codex Vaticanus, although nearly all other Manuscripts of Mark contain them.

However, in my NIV and the �online� one it records it all. Here is the context in 16:
1 When the Sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices so that they might go to anoint Jesus� body.
2 Very early on the first day of the week, just after sunrise, they were on their way to the tomb
3 and they asked each other, �Who will roll the stone away from the entrance of the tomb?�
4 But when they looked up, they saw that the stone, which was very large, had been rolled away.
5 As they entered the tomb, they saw a young man dressed in a white robe sitting on the right side, and they were alarmed.
6 �Don�t be alarmed,� he said. �You are looking for Jesus the Nazarene, who was crucified. He has risen! He is not here. See the place where they laid him.
7 But go, tell his disciples and Peter, �He is going ahead of you into Galilee. There you will see him, just as he told you.��
8 Trembling and bewildered, the women went out and fled from the tomb. They said nothing to anyone, because they were afraid. --- (Then it says this):
________________________________________
[The earliest manuscripts and some other ancient witnesses do not have verses 9�20.]
9 When Jesus rose early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had driven seven demons.
10 She went and told those who had been with him and who were mourning and weeping.
11 When they heard that Jesus was alive and that she had seen him, they did not believe it.
12 Afterward Jesus appeared in a different form to two of them while they were walking in the country. (Recorded in Luke 24:13-35.)
13 These returned and reported it to the rest; but they did not believe them either.
14 Later Jesus appeared to the Eleven as they were eating; he rebuked them for their lack of faith and their stubborn refusal to believe those who had seen him after he had risen.
15 He said to them, �Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.
16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues;
18 they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.�
19 After the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, he was taken up into heaven and he sat at the right hand of God.
20 Then the disciples went out and preached everywhere, and the Lord worked with them and confirmed his word by the signs that accompanied it.

Notice: --- �It said the first Manuscripts do not have verses 9-20.�
--- Mark wrote in collaboration with Peter but would have gotten the main message from the former Gospel of Matthew in Aramaic, which was no doubt the basic teaching for the three Synoptic Gospels.
Peter�s first language would be Aramaic, and a common language of Christians was Latin, so Peter and Mark were ministering together in Rome. --- Mark was perhaps better in Greek so he wrote his account for the people of Rome.

Mark was a teenager at the time that Jesus was crucified, and this incident, only mentioned in Mark is believed to refer to himself. --- He was with the disciples when they came to arrest Jesus, and it said this in Mark 14:
43 And immediately, while he (Jesus) yet spake, cometh Judas, one of the twelve, and with him a great multitude with swords and staves, from the chief priests and the scribes and the elders.
46 And they laid their hands on him, and took him.
51 And there followed him a certain young man, having a linen cloth cast about his naked body; and the young men (with Judas) laid hold on him:
52 And he left the linen cloth, and fled from them naked.
--- There is no indication that Mark was present beyond this point, so did not record the end of the story.
He was no doubt anxious to finish his account so he obviously ended it with the women who were afraid, and didn�t tell anyone.
--- (How come you didn�t find this discrepancy?)

Mark did mention Mary Magdalene who had gone first to the tomb, but not as 'going to Peter and John':
9 When Jesus rose early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had driven seven demons.
--- Because Mary Magdalene went to Peter and John, they responded in John 20:
1 Now on the first day of the week Mary Magdalene went to the tomb early, while it was still dark, and saw that the stone had been taken away from the tomb.
2 Then she ran and came to Simon Peter, and to the other disciple (John), whom Jesus loved, and said to them, �They have taken away the Lord out of the tomb, and we do not know where they have laid Him.�
3 Peter therefore went out, and the other disciple, and were going to the tomb.
4 So they both ran together, and the other disciple outran Peter and came to the tomb first.
5 And he, stooping down and looking in, saw the linen cloths lying there; yet he did not go in.
6 Then Simon Peter came, following him, and went into the tomb; and he saw the linen cloths lying there,
7 and the handkerchief that had been around His head, not lying with the linen cloths, but folded together in a place by itself.
8 Then the other disciple (John), who came to the tomb first, went in also; and he saw and believed.

--- It is obvious that Peter added this �Post Script� to Mark�s Gospel, so the first Manuscript was copied without the verses. --- But further copies contained the verses 9-20. --- Which is mentioned in Footnotes* in all versions.

Placid

Hi Placid,

You respond by telling me that They are lacking in Codex Siniaticus, and Codex Vaticanus,[The earliest manuscripts and some other ancient witnesses do not have verses 9�20.]


My question to you is why and who removed these verses and when the Holy Spirit inspired them did he also inspire them to leave out some of the verses??????If the Holy spirit talks to you everyday why do you not ask him why does he not fix the Bible which is corrupted beyond repair.All the Church fathers are in a limbo as to the teachings of the great master Jesus pboh.

Hi Placid,

Response: --- The verses you mentioned are in your NIV, in footnotes, or with notations. --- No great problem but simply that some Greek Manuscripts left out verse 21.
In my Bible it there in the text,not in the footnote.King James version.Now you removed it to a footnote.If it is in a footnote in one Bible and in the text of another Bible then these Bibles are corrupted and the Holy Ghost did not see fit to rectify it.


--- As for this comment, �the Bible which is corrupted beyond repair,� is a statement of prejudice against God and His word, which is given in truth to those who believe.
--- Can you give an example, �as to the teachings of the great master Jesus,� that are corrupted? --- In the Quran there is not a verse that speaks of the Gospel being corrupted, --- The Quran was from 300 years after the NT was finalized and there have been no changes from then till now --- Only the choice of words of the translators, --- (And faulty comments like those in your NIV.)

King James Bible
And Abraham was ninety years old and nine, when he was circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin.

King James Bible
And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child,Jesus.


Paul nail the commandment to the cross.

"Was anyone called while circumcised? Let him not become uncircumcised. Was anyone called while uncircumcised? Let him not be circumcised. Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters" (I Corinthians 7:19).

This is only one.



Edited by iec786 - 02 December 2013 at 10:26am