In Matthew chapter 17 verses 21 is missing from th

The Original Sin:

Christianity and Islam differ regarding the concept of the Original Sin. According to Christianity, Adam and Eve, the first humans sinned when they ate the forbidden fruit. They were expelled from heaven and sin entered the world. Every child of Adam, you and I, according to Christianity has inherited this sin (as genetic inheritance). Therefore, every male and female is born stained with sin and is therefore destined to hell, from birth. This belief in Christianity gave rise to the doctrine of Atonement. According to this doctrine, God sacrificed his "only begotten" son, Jesus to wash away the sins of the world. The only thing people have to do to wash away their hereditary stain is to believe in Jesus as God's son and that he died for them.

Islam does not agree with all this. According to the Koran, every one is responsible for their own doings and nobody can carry the burden of another. God is forgiving and if a person sincerely repents, amends and does what is good and righteous, God forgives. Adam did not ask us before eating the fruit, so how can we be blamed?

In any society, where justice is one of the highest valued morals, killing an innocent man (Jesus) to wash away the sins of the guilty would be condemned as immoral, yet billions of people rejoice over this "gift" of injustice! Once again, the source of conflict is Paul and not Jesus. Jesus never talked about atonement or a "free-ride" through the blood of an innocent man.

On the contrary he said, "If you would enter life, keep the commandments" (Matthew 19:17). It was Paul who brought the concept of the Original Sin into Christianity. He says:

Romans 5:12

[12] "Therefore, as sin came into the world through ONE man.."

1 Corinthians 15:21-22

[21] "For as by a man came death (sin), by a man also has come the resurrection of the dead.

[22] For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive."

As we saw above, Jesus contradicts Paul. Not only that, the Old Testament contradicts Paul as well:

Ezekiel 18:20-22

[20] The soul that sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son; the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

[21] "But if a wicked man turns away from all his sins which he has committed and keeps all my statutes and does what is lawful and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die.

[22] None of the transgressions which he has committed shall be remembered against him; for the righteousness which he has done he shall live.

2 Chronicles 25:4

[4] But he did not put their children to death, according to what is written in the law, in the book of Moses, where the LORD commanded, "The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, or the children be put to death for the fathers; but every man shall die for his own sin."

Major Yeats Brown, in his book, Life of a Bengal Lancer, summarized the concept of atonement in Christianity. He states:

"No heathen tribe has conceived so grotesque an idea, involving as it does the assumption, that man was born with a hereditary stain upon him: and that this stain (for which he was not personally responsible) was to be atoned for; and the creator of all things had to sacrifice his only begotten son, to neutralize this mysterious curse."

Paul actually transformed the strict monotheism that Jesus proclaimed into a religion that is closer to Greek mythology, than it is towards either Judaism or Islam. Things like the "only begotten son", atonement for the sins of humanity etc. were all alien to the strict monotheism of Abraham, Jesus, Muhammad and all the prophets of Israel.

John H. Randall, emeritus professor of philosophy at Columbia University, wrote:

"Christianity, at the hands of Paul, became a mystical system of redemption, much like the cult of Isis, and the other sacramental or mystery religions of the day"

(Hellenistic Ways of Deliverance and the Making of the Christian Synthesis, 1970, p. 154, http://www.leaderu.com/everystudent/easter/articles/yama.html, retrieved 12/0-8/'01).

Greek cults were prevalent in the Mediterranean long before Jesus was born. They were brought into Christianity by Paul to make doctrine "inclusive" thereby destroying the strict monotheism that Jesus proclaimed. Some of the ones, with their parallels in Christianity, are:

1. Attis of Phrygia (later called Galatia in Asia Minor):

He was regarded as the "only begotten" son and savior. He was bled to death on March 24th on the foot of a pine tree. He also rose from the dead and his death and resurrection was celebrated by his followers.

"A Christian writer of the fourth century AD, recounted ongoing disputes between Pagans and Christians over the remarkable similarities of the death and resurrection of their two Gods. The Pagans argued that their God was older and therefore original. The Christians admitted Christ came later, but claimed Attis was a work of the devil whose similarity to Christ, and the fact he predated Christ, were intended to confuse and mislead men. This was apparently the stock answer -- the Christian apologist Tertullian makes the same argument."

(http://home.earthlink.net/~pgwhacker/ChristianOrigins/PaganChrists_Attis.html, retrieved 12/08/'01)

2. Adonis of Syria:

He was born of a virgin mother. He also suffered death for the redemption of mankind, arising from the dead in spring.

3. Bacchus of Greece or Dionesius

He was termed the "only begotten" son of Jupiter. He was born of a virgin named Detemer on December 25th. To his followers, he was "redeemer". He called himself "Alpha and Omega" i.e. similar to the words used for Jesus by the author of the Book of Revelation.

4. Orisis of the Egyptians

He was born of a virgin mother on December 29th. He was betrayed by one Typhen (remember Judas) and was slain. He was buried (just like Jesus), remained in hell for two to three days (just like Jesus), and then rose from the dead (just like Jesus).

5. Mithra, the Persian Sun-God

He was also born of a virgin on the 25th of December. Christmas and Easter were the most important festivals of the Mithras. They also had other surprising similarities with Paul's Christianity like the Eucharist supper etc.

Dr. Arnold Meyer, professor of Theology at the Zurich University, after describing the basic Christian beliefs of today, i.e. the divinity of Christ, atonement etc. states:

If this is Christianity, then such Christianity was founded by St. Paul and not by our lord (Jesus or Paul, page 122)

� 2001

Greetings Ismail,

As you have written alot, and my reply also will be long... and as it takes a whole day for my replies to get posted... I will be replying in parts.

Beginning from your first reply to me, dated Jan. 5;

One account reports seeing 'the light'
the other account reports 'seeing no one'... as in no person
this does not discount the latter report of seeing 'the light'.

Re: Acts, this is what is recorded...
Jesus' last recorded words have come to be known as the Great Commission:  "Ye shall be witnesses unto Me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth."(1:8).  The Book of Acts, written by Luke, is the story of the men and women who took that commission seriously and began to spread the news of a risen Saviour to the most remote corners of the known world.
Each section of the book (1-7; 8-12; 13-28) focuses on a particular audience, a key personality, and a significant phase in the expansion of the gospel message.

So,
When you recount an incident of what has happened to you, do you suppose your account matches exactly and precisely every time you tell it?
Does it make any difference if in one account it mentions only Paul only falling to the ground, and in another it mentions that the others fell to the ground also?
Might you tell the account one way describing only your own experience in one account, but possibly in telling it another time, including the experience of the others as well?
These minor things really mean nothing.

I say again;
If the very Apostle's of Yshwe accepted Paul why should we reject him?

The greatest testimony on Paul's behalf is this;
Do you not think something miraculous had to have happened to completely turn him around in his stance against the 'Christians'?
He went from one who was persecuting, to one who was persecuted.  Why on earth would he choose this course unless something astounding had happened to change him?  Why would he give up his superior status as a Roman and as a pharisee to become one of the persecuted?

Re: Nietzsche's
Since when do opinions of philosophers rank higher than the Word of God?
Since when does any philosopher believe in God or religion?  Aren't they always trying to prove man's superior wisdom?

"Paul invented the doctrines of 'eternal life' and 'the Judgement' as a means to his ends."

Doesn't the qur'an also speak of eternal life and of the day of judgement?

"Nietzsche had earlier discussed Paul's frustrations at being unable to master, and to comply with, Jewish law, and hence Paul "sought about for a means of destroying" that law."

If Paul in any way taints what Yshwe taught, it is with his pharisiacal beliefs.  Paul reinforces the Mosaic law, whereas Yshwe little addresses it, except to say that the pharisees do not understand the purpose of the law and in their lack of understanding they destroy God's good purpose.

Romans 3:28

The scriptures require a thorough study of all to understand the full meaning of all, and not just a picking at semantics.  If one seeks to discredit Paul then they will certainly find the way to do so, by not taking into account the fullness of the gospel... the good news.

In the scriptures it is duly noted by those who have studied the fullness of them, as follows:
3:28 - While believers are neither justified nor declared sinless through works, they are sanctified or set apart by the life they live.  Works are an essential part of a believer's life since by them a person develops the same character and mind of Messiah.

continuing with, Paul says;
3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith?  Certainly not: yea we establish the law.

for without the law we would not know that we transgress (Romans 4:15)
but by faith we learn to live by the law

notes from the scriptures, on 3:31:
In response to his own question, Paul champions establishing and upholding the law.

He re-iterates this in Romans 5:15.

He goes on to describe how Abraham himself was justified by his faith and not by works... as was David.

I could continue to write a long expose, just as you have read the expose's of others against Paul, but the only way you will truly understand is to read for yourself what it is that Paul wrote.  Then I think you will find you can have no argument with Paul.  Read what Paul says, not what others have to say about what Paul says.
But I am sure you have enough to study within your own beliefs, and as much as is required to understand your own... the same attention and devotion is essential in the study of others.  It is a very time consuming vocation.

Re: Romans 7:4;
ref. Romans 6:14 - the key is in verse 13, where one yields to YHWH with a life of righteousness.  Being righteous, one is not under sin's influence and is free from the penalties of law breaking.
Grace is charis and means, "Divine influence on the heart and its reflection in one's life."

Thus, 'saved by grace'... by charis... by 'Divine influence on the heart and its reflection in one's life'.

(I am taking a break here but will continue...it should give you time to look up and digest some of what I have written?)

Salaam and blessings,
Caringheart


Edited by Caringheart - 10 January 2014 at 12:03am

"Jesus never talked about atonement or a "free-ride" through the blood of an innocent man."

The atonement was long known in Judaic history... as a means and a pathway to God.
the 'scape goat' required by God (Leviticus 16)
Abram instructed to sacrifice his son.
'There is much yet to be accomplished that you do not understand'


How can Jesus pay for us?
Why can He not, if He chooses to?
Would we then refuse the gift?  Would we reject one who has been gracious enough to pay our debt for us?  How insulting and ungrateful would that be? 
If I were to offer myself to God in your place, does God not have the right and the authority to accept this?  And if he accepts my offer as release of your debt, are you one to argue with God about whether or not He can do this?
It is like this...
If you were to be brought before the judge to pay your debts, and the judge were to turn to you and say you are free to go, there was one here before you and he has paid your debt.  Can you argue with the judge?


"Christianity is the only religion that recognizes the hopeless gap between man and a Holy and Righteous God, teaching that salvation can only be obtained through God's grace."
Human effort can not get us there.  We will always be flawed and imperfect.  The only perfection comes through Christ.


Edited by Caringheart - 07 January 2014 at 4:54pm

"Christianity is the only religion that recognizes the hopeless gap between man and a Holy and Righteous God, teaching that salvation can only be obtained through God's grace."
Human effort can not get us there. We will always be flawed and imperfect. The only perfection comes through Christ.


Hi Carringheart,wow that was three times my post have mercy. that was long.

27 Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.

28 Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

If you repent you will be forgiven without Christ.

The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

So through prayer fasting and repentance you can wipe away your sins no need for grace or any human intervention.Forgiveness is in the hands of Allah.

Peace Ismail