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NABA 
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Male Joined: 13 December 2012 Location: India Status: Offline Points: 867 |
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 Posted: 09 July 2013 at 10:36pm |
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dear bronaz in bible itself it is written in cornithians 11:14-Even Satan disguise itself as angels so I m a human so I need not need to b disguised as human similarly if Satan was angel he should not have need to b disguised as angel this shows bible also proves Satan was not angel,in Qur'an in ch 18 v 50-Satan was jinn,as I said that angels are created by Allah in such a way that they are here only to obey Allah,if a creature had free will then he is not an angel,I agree that Allah can do anything,but he will not do ungodly things,as mentioned in Surah Al Burooj ch 85 v 16-Allah does only those things what he intends to do.Allah doesn't do those things what we think with our limited memory.for eg U R well versed with tale of prophet Jonah(pbuh),he was in the stomach of whale for 3 days 3 nights,but what he do,he prayed to Allah but Allah answered his prayer in such a way that the whale vomit him out near the shore,normally when we think by ourselves we would have take him for granted that he is dead,but U can't predict what Allah can do,there is nothing like him(ch 112 v 4).Allah need not to become human at all,he is way above all needs.Allah in fact doesn't need us(ch 35 v 15),we worship him for our betterment.
Edited by NABA - 09 July 2013 at 10:40pm |
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Caringheart
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Joined: 02 March 2012 Status: Offline Points: 2991 |
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Posted: 09 July 2013 at 10:04am |
Greetings Mansoor_ali, Tell me this does not sound familiar: I believe that Muhammad had heard the message but he did not bring the fullness of the message to his people. Salaam. |
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Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
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Caringheart
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Joined: 02 March 2012 Status: Offline Points: 2991 |
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Posted: 09 July 2013 at 9:38am |
Greetings NABA, 34 who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor? 18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. 20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. 22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: 23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; 24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. 25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men. 26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: 27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; 28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: 29 That no flesh should glory in his presence. 8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord. 9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. 10 For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater: 11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I pleaseI always suggest for people to read the book of Job to understand how the wisdom of God is higher than any we can aspire to have. Is our wisdom higher than the wisdom of God that we should dispute against what He has clearly shown to us, and done for us? 38 Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said, 2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge? 3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me. 4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. 5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? 6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; ... If you can please read the whole book of Job to gain understanding. Edited by Caringheart - 09 July 2013 at 9:47am |
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Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
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bronaz
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Joined: 21 May 2013 Status: Offline Points: 45 |
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Posted: 09 July 2013 at 1:51am |
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My Dear NABA,
As the Bible states Satan was first an angel but because he disobeyed God, he was cast into hell and therefore became Satan. Regarding the crucifixion, I know Muslims have a serious problem with that and you are no exceptions. To be able to understand Christian theology we have to understand that God transcends time and space Since he is creator all the laws of the universe are subject to him. Which means he can do as he pleases..he can make it rain from a clear sky...to give an example. If the Quran accepts the fact that Jesus could be conceived by Mary without having relations....because that is not logical then it should also accept the fact that God can become Man and since Jesus is the Second person in the Trinity, the work of God continued while he endured death on a cross. The Mystery is Jesus was both Divine and Human. The Human died on the Cross, the divine still lives on and will live to eternity. If God can do anything and I believe you believe that...then everything is possible and the Christian theology is very sound... If you do a search on Fatima, you will find that Mary appeared to three children and continued to do so for six months on the 13th of every month. This was witnessed by over 70,000 people. So the testimony of all cannot be wrong. You can check out Wikipedia.... If that doesnt convince you, nothing will |
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NABA
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Male Joined: 13 December 2012 Location: India Status: Offline Points: 867 |
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Posted: 08 July 2013 at 11:02pm |
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Satan was not angel he is a jinn,angels are those creatures that do not disobey commandments of Allah,human beings and jinns are the two creations of Allah who possess free will,and that's Allah want to c whether after having free will we obey Allah or not,if U say Jesus(pbuh) is God and he is crucified,then how he is God????U urself contraindicating urself,because the concept of God is mentioned in Qur'an in ch 112 v 1-4-he is one,he is eternal,he is neither born nor begets,there is nothing like him.If U say God is crucified then who controlled the world for that period of time????means God died???it is truly illogical!!!!!Jesus Christ(pbuh) is the important messenger of Allah,he always said whatever I do I do with the help of Allah,worship him he is your lord and my lord.
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bronaz
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Joined: 21 May 2013 Status: Offline Points: 45 |
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Posted: 07 July 2013 at 2:42am |
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Mansoor, a well put forth argument..which ignores one fact that God is Spirit and Satan is an evil spirit....both of which cannot be seen.
Jesus called Satan a liar and a murderer from the onset. A liar corrupts the truth and time and time again it has been proven that certain facts in the Quran dont stand to reason.Notable among them is the crucifixion of Jesus which the Quran denies. It has been observed time and time again that Satan/evil spirits hates the sight of the crucifix. If that had to be Judas as the Quran espouses then what is there to be scared of, but if it is Jesus who is God who is crucified then there is a very good reason to be scared. Possessed people hate the sight of the crucifix. It stands to reason why the value of crucifixion had to be deflated. so you see why the same has been said in the Quran. Lies can be stated in very poetic form, and I would like to remind you that Satan was one of the most powerful and beautiful angel before he became the devil. So intellectually he is very strong. |
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Mansoor_ali
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Male Joined: 25 September 2008 Location: Pakistan Status: Offline Points: 584 |
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Posted: 07 July 2013 at 2:14am |
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Experiential There were Christians and Jews in Arabia
long before the time of Mohammad. Mohammad knew the stories from the
Torah and Injil through word of mouth. How else would he have known
about all of the stories and prophets from the Torah and Injil.
Including the creation story.
Not being able to read or write had nothing to do with it. My Reply Let me put forward some questions: "Why is it in spite of the abundance of historical material on Muhammad (Salla Allahu Alayhi Wa Sallam)'s life, and in spite of the extensive research on his life for centuries by his severe critics, that it was not possible to discover the mysterious teacher(s) through whom Muhammad (Salla Allahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) might have learned all that? It is known that Muhammad (Salla Allahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) was opposed, ridiculed and persecuted for nearly 13 years by his own contemporaries. With this magnitude of severe enemies, was it not possible for them to prove to the masses that Muhammad (Salla Allahu Alayhi Wa Sallam)'s claim of revelation was sheer fabrication? Was it not possible for them to reveal and name of the person whom they alleged to be the human source or sources of his teachings? Even some of his adversaries who had made this assertion changed their minds later on and accused him, instead, of magic or being possessed by evil, etc. Muhammad (Salla Allahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) was raised among his people and every aspect of his life was exposed to them, especially by the openness that characterizes tribal life in the desert. How could the multitudes of his contemporaries, including many of his close relatives who knew him so well, how could they believe in his truthfulness if they had any doubt that he was claiming credit for ideas taught to him by some other teachers without bothering to give them credit? What kind of teacher might have taught Muhammad (Salla Allahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) a coherent and complete religion that changed the face of history? Why didn't he or they (if any) speak against the alleged student who continued learning from them, while ignoring them and claiming some other divine source for his teachings? How could many Jews and Christians amongst his contemporaries become Muslims and believe in his truthfulness if they knew he was copying from their scriptures or learning from their priests or rabbis? It is known that some of the Qur'anic revelations to Muhammad (Salla Allahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) were revealed in the presence of people. The Qur�an was revealed over the span of 23 years. Where then was that mysterious, perhaps invisible teacher of Muhammad (Salla Allahu Alayhi Wa Sallam)? How could he have hidden himself for so long? Or how could Muhammad (Salla Allahu Alayhi Wa Sallam), who was constantly surrounded by companions, was able to make frequent secret visits to that mysterious teacher or teachers for 23 years without even being caught once?
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Empiricist
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Joined: 26 February 2012 Status: Offline Points: 52 |
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Posted: 04 July 2013 at 2:08pm |
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It is obvious the moon is in an orbit around the sun, and that the earth is turning- is that another translation of orbit?
And Mohamed did not need to read, as already stated, to know what the bible said- he obviously had a dislike for Christians and Jews so he must have had much contact with them, so they probably spoke his language. Maybe somebody tried to teach him about Jesus. And again, the writers had some liberty to write what they wanted, and change it over the course of many years. They wanted to have something similar to the bible, so they rewrote it in their own words. And the Quran is not well organized. It has scattered verses, not connected. Why don't Muslims read the New Testament? There is no punishment if Christians read the Quran or anything else. We are free to find the truth. I have read much of the Quran and the book Quran Dilemma, and it is no comparison to the bible. I hope Muslims wake up and realize they are simply being controlled for political reasons, and seek the truth. The truth is found also by writings of others- CS Lewis was an atheist before he became a Christian. See the book Mere Christianity. If a Muslim would just read this book, they would really see Christianity in a new and truthful light, not like what they are taught about how bad everything else is. This is brainwashing propaganda. And Jesus did NOT predict Mohammed. It was the holy spirit, and it came right after his death. Mohammed came far too late to do any good. And the Quran is just a book of loopholes allowing many sins that were not allowed in the bible. Mohammed allowed murder, rape, adultery, theft, etc of non-Muslims. Jesus allowed none of this. In fact I see Muslims as always angry and frowning. And one really as to wonder, what would the religion be like that Satan himself would create. It would be very much like Islam in my opinion- full of loopholes to sin, a deceptive copy of the bible, and full control of the people, through fear of death if they try to sway away from it, and hatred of Christians and Jews. Oh- and Muslims say they believe in Jesus too, but they have no idea what he said. They are told the bible was corrupted, so it is not correct. Is it ALL corrupted? Is the message all changed? That is simply impossible. Maybe a few passages changed, interpreted somewhat differently, but this is true for the Quran too, in fact more so! Over 50 versions at one time! This cannot be denied! Edited by Empiricist - 04 July 2013 at 2:11pm |
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Mansoor_ali wrote: