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786SalamKhan View Drop Down
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    Posted: 05 February 2013 at 3:40am
Originally posted by Nur_Ilahi Nur_Ilahi wrote:

I see so many of the Prophets being acknowledged by Christians, except the last and most important one. A very big question mark here??????? [IMG]smileys/smiley24.gif" align="middle" />


Funnily, I've seen Christians only acknowledge Israelite Prophets and Pre-Israelite Prophets. But Surprisingly Jews also acknowledge non-Israelite Prophets such as Balaam, Job, Beor etc.

Edited by 786SalamKhan - 05 February 2013 at 3:40am
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I see so many of the Prophets being acknowledged by Christians, except the last and most important one. A very big question mark here???????
Ilahi Anta Maksudi, Wa Redhaka Mathlubi - Oh Allah, You are my destination, Your Pleasure is my Intention.
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Originally posted by 786SalamKhan 786SalamKhan wrote:

Originally posted by TG12345 TG12345 wrote:


Originally posted by 786SalamKhan 786SalamKhan wrote:

Read the Meadows of Gold by Al Masudi and Al Tabari's History of Prophets and Kings to get a better idea instead of Wikipedia.
Salaam Alaikum, 786SalaamKhan,I agree that Wikipedia is a pretty cruddy source, which is why I am asking people here instead of taking the word of a Muslim site which cites it.I just searched my library, and unfortunately the collection in it (or in other libraries in the city where I live) does not have either History of the Prophets or Meadows of Gold. Would you have a copy of either of these books or know any links to authoritative Muslim websites?If the answer to either questions is yes, would you be able to tell me approximately where does Salih fall in to the order of the prophets, chronologically? Did he live before or after Noah? Before or after Abraham? Before or after Moses? Before or after Jesus? Thanks so much.TG12345


I have access to the Meadows of Gold(Quite good) but not History of Prophets and Kings(Although this series is not that recommended).

Tradition holds that there were about 124,000 prophets in history, no one knows all of them; the Quran only confirms 25.

https://play.google.com/store/books/details?id=XaVmAAAAMAAJ&rdid=book-XaVmAAAAMAAJ&rdot=1


Salaam Alaikum.

Cool, thanks for sharing that. Does Meadows of Gold say anything about whether Salih came before or after Ibrahim?

According to Ibn Kathir, Salih came before Abraham did. We know that Ibn Kathir sometimes used Christian and Jewish sources, but this wouldn't be the case since neither Jewish or Christian Scriptures make any mention of an Arab group called 'Ad.

Here Allah tells us about His servant and Messenger Salih, whom He sent to his people Thamud. They were Arabs living in the city of Al-Hijr -- which is between Wadi Al-Qura and Greater Syria. Their location is well known. In our explanation of Surat Al-A`raf, we mentioned the Hadiths which tell how the Messenger of Allah passed by their dwelling place when he wanted to launch a raid on Syria. He went as far as Tabuk, then he went back to Al-Madinah to prepare himself for the campaign. Thamud came after `Ad and before Ibrahim, peace be upon him. Their Prophet Salih called them to Allah, to worship Him alone with no partner or associate, and to obey whatever commands were conveyed to them, but they refused, rejecting him and opposing him. He told them that he did not seek any reward from them for his call to them, but that he would seek the reward for that with Allah. Then he reminded them of the blessings of Allah.

http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2264&Itemid=82

As a Muslim friend pointed out to me through email, in chapter 11 of the Quran the stories of Noah, Hud, Salih, Abraham, Lot, and Shuayb are mentioned in order, followed by the story of Moses.


The Quran explicitly mentions that Salih came after Hud and that Noah, Hud, Salih and Lot came after Shuayb.

11:89

89"And O my people! Let not my Shiqaq cause you to suffer the fate similar to that of the people of Nuh (Noah) or of Hud or of Salih, and the people of Lut (Lot) are not far off from you!

11:73, 74

73And to Thamud (people, We sent) their brother Salih. He said: "O my people! Worship Allah! You have no other Ilah (God) but Him. (La ilaha illallah: none has the right to be worshipped but Allah). Indeed there has come to you a clear sign (the miracle of the coming out of a huge she-camel from the midst of a rock) from your Lord. This she-camel of Allah is a sign unto you; so you leave her to graze in Allah's earth, and touch her not with harm, lest a painful torment should seize you.

74And remember when He made you successors after 'Ad (people) and gave you habitations in the land, you build for yourselves palaces in plains, and carve out homes in the mountains. So remember the graces (bestowed upon you) from Allah, and do not go about making mischief on the earth."



Ibn Kathir's commentary on 11:89 also states that the people of Shuayb lived in the same times and place as the people of Lot.

(and the people of Lut are not far off from you!) It has been said that this refers to the period of time. Qatadah said, "This means that they were only destroyed before you yesterday.'' It has also been said that it refers to place. Actually, the verse carries both meanings.

This makes a lot of sense to me, since notice that the people of Lot are distinguished as "not being far off" from from the people of Shu'ayb.

11:89

89"And O my people! Let not my Shiqaq cause you to suffer the fate similar to that of the people of Nuh (Noah) or of Hud or of Salih, and the people of Lut (Lot) are not far off from you!

Would you agree that the Quran lists Noah, Hud, Salih, Abraham, Lot, Shuayb and Moses in chronological order?

I think it is pretty clear that according to the Quran, the people of Salih lived before the people of Lot, and would therefore have existed long before Moses or Jesus.

What are your thoughts?

Salaam.


Edited by TG12345 - 05 February 2013 at 2:38pm
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Originally posted by TG12345 TG12345 wrote:


Originally posted by 786SalamKhan 786SalamKhan wrote:

Read the Meadows of Gold by Al Masudi and Al Tabari's History of Prophets and Kings to get a better idea instead of Wikipedia.
Salaam Alaikum, 786SalaamKhan,I agree that Wikipedia is a pretty cruddy source, which is why I am asking people here instead of taking the word of a Muslim site which cites it.I just searched my library, and unfortunately the collection in it (or in other libraries in the city where I live) does not have either History of the Prophets or Meadows of Gold. Would you have a copy of either of these books or know any links to authoritative Muslim websites?If the answer to either questions is yes, would you be able to tell me approximately where does Salih fall in to the order of the prophets, chronologically? Did he live before or after Noah? Before or after Abraham? Before or after Moses? Before or after Jesus? Thanks so much.TG12345


I have access to the Meadows of Gold(Quite good) but not History of Prophets and Kings(Although this series is not that recommended).

Tradition holds that there were about 124,000 prophets in history, no one knows all of them; the Quran only confirms 25.

https://play.google.com/store/books/details?id=XaVmAAAAMAAJ&rdid=book-XaVmAAAAMAAJ&rdot=1
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السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته

Stories of the Prophets (Ibn Kathir)

"In this book, the stories of the prophets have been compiled from 'Al-Bidayah wan-Nihayah' (The Beginning and the End) which is a great work of the famous Muslim exegete and historian Ibn Kathir and has a prominent place in the Islamic literature. The stories of the prophets and all the events in their lives have been supported by the Qur'anic Verses and the Sunnah (traditions) of the Prophet (S). Wherever it was necessary, other sources have also been reported for the sake of historical accounts, but on such places a comparative study has been made to prove the authenticity of the sources. Ibn Kathir has reproduced the views and interpretations of all the great exegetes of the Qur'an of his time. The systemic narratives of the Stories of the Prophets have been written in chronological order which renders a historical style to the book."

http://www.kalamullah.com/Books/Stories%20Of%20The%20Prophets%20By%20Ibn%20Kathir.pdf

والسلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته
الله
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Assalamu Alaikum 786SalaamKhan,

I just read "Stories of the Prophets" by Ibn Kathir, who seems to have the prophets listed chronologically in his Table of Contents. Adam comes first, then Idris (who if I am not mistaken, Islam teaches was the third prophet after Adam and Seth?), then Noah. Shuaib is listed after Salih and we know this is true because in the Quran he drew reference to the people of Salih (11:89), and Jesus comes after John the Baptist and before Muhammad.

Stories of the Prophets

Al-Imam ibn Kathir

Contents

1. Prophet Adam
2. Prophet Idris (Enoch)
3. Prophet Nuh (Noah)
4. Prophet Hud
5. Prophet Salih
6. Prophet Ibrahim (Abraham)
7. Prophet Isma'il (Ishmael)
8. Prophet Ishaq (Isaac)
9. Prophet Yaqub (Jacob)
10. Prophet Lot (Lot)
11. Prophet Shuaib
12. Prophet Yusuf (Joseph)
13. Prophet Ayoub (Job)
14 . Prophet Dhul-Kifl
15. Prophet Yunus (Jonah)
16. Prophet Musa (Moses) & Harun (Aaron)
17. Prophet Hizqeel (Ezekiel)
18. Prophet Elyas (Elisha)
19. Prophet Shammil (Samuel)
20. Prophet Dawud (David)
21. Prophet Sulaiman (Soloman)
22. Prophet Shia (Isaiah)
23. Prophet Aramaya (Jeremiah)
24. Prophet Daniel
25. Prophet Uzair (Ezra)
26. Prophet Zakariyah (Zechariah)
27. Prophet Yahya (John)
28. Prophet Isa (Jesus)
29. Prophet Muhammad

http://www.kalamullah.com/Books/Stor...n%20Kathir.pdf

Unless I am proven wrong, I will assume this is the order of the prophets in Islam. If I am wrong, please show me.

According to the Ibn Kathir, Salih lived 7 generations after Noah.

So Allah sent unto them His Prophet Salih (PBUH), a man from among them. His name was Salih Ibn Ubeid, Ibn Maseh, Ibn Ubeid, Ibn Hader, Ibn Thamud, Ibn Ather, Ibn Eram, Ibn Noah. He called his people to worship Allah alone, and to not associate partners with Him. While some of
them believed him, the majority of them disbelieved and harmed him by both words and deeds.

He claims that some of the People of the Book state that Abraham lived 10 generations from Noah, and he does not dispute this. We can assume safely I think that Salih lived before Abraham.

Some of the People of the Book stated that his name was Abraham Ibn Tarikh, Ibn Nahur, Ibn Sarough, Ibn Raghu, Ibn Phaligh, Ibn Aher, Ibn Shalih, Ibn Arfghshand, Ibn Sam, Ibn Noah.

If I am not mistaken, Salih lived before not only Jesus, but also before Abraham did. He lived before his sons, and before the Children of Israel even existed. He lived a long time before Noah took the Banu Israil out of Egypt.

Do you think this is a correct assumption on my part?

Thanks.


BTW other Muslims are more than welcome to respond also.


Edited by TG12345 - 04 February 2013 at 2:39pm
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Originally posted by 786SalamKhan 786SalamKhan wrote:

Read the Meadows of Gold by Al Masudi and Al Tabari's History of Prophets and Kings to get a better idea instead of Wikipedia.

Salaam Alaikum, 786SalaamKhan,

I agree that Wikipedia is a pretty cruddy source, which is why I am asking people here instead of taking the word of a Muslim site which cites it.

I just searched my library, and unfortunately the collection in it (or in other libraries in the city where I live) does not have either History of the Prophets or Meadows of Gold. Would you have a copy of either of these books or know any links to authoritative Muslim websites?

If the answer to either questions is yes, would you be able to tell me approximately where does Salih fall in to the order of the prophets, chronologically? Did he live before or after Noah? Before or after Abraham? Before or after Moses? Before or after Jesus?

Thanks so much.

TG12345
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Read the Meadows of Gold by Al Masudi and Al Tabari's History of Prophets and Kings to get a better idea instead of Wikipedia. Other than that it is pretty much right.
There are others such as the Sage Khidr, the Sage Luqman, Uzair(Abdenego?), people of Rass, People of Ya Sin etc. that are possibly prophets.
It's unknown whether Idris is truly Enoch, Dhul Kifl is truly Ezekial, Hud is truly Eber and Saleh is truly Shelah.

Edited by 786SalamKhan - 04 February 2013 at 6:34am
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